Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment

[StoneTheCrow]

(02-18-2016, 09:05 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Wowza. The USMC drilled weapon safety into my brain. That video made my butt pucker.
But if we banned guns because of stupidity we would have to ban freedom of speech and driving and certain countries and some lives.

Treat, never, keep, keep.

[fredtoast]

(02-20-2016, 03:42 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Do we have some idiots out there?  Yep, they will probably kill themselves one day. 

I don't feel sorry for them.  If they don't know not to drink and shoot guns, then that shows their stupidity. 

What if they kill one of your friends or family members instead of them selves.

[GMDino]

(02-21-2016, 11:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What if they kill one of your friends or family members instead of them selves.

[*bfine32*]

(02-21-2016, 11:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What if they kill one of your friends or family members instead of them selves.

Hopefully they will be convicted of murder and punished accordingly.


This is a fun game:

What if one day they defend one of your friends or family members?

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-21-2016, 11:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What if they kill one of your friends or family members instead of them selves.

Oh... what if scenarios.  I thought you didn't like imaginary situations.  Now it seems they are fine.


To answer your question.  Bad things happen in life. 

Luckily none of my friends or family hang out with these types of idiots.

My close friends are a lo like me and know all about proper safety.

My close family, some use guns, others don't like them around.  The idiot members of my family, I only associate with during certain times and those are the ones I chew out when they attempt something stupid.  I haven't had a time where they ignored me when I informed them of their stupidity.  They don't even try to protest.

So less exposure to the dumb ones and not being scared to put a stop to any failure to adhere to proper gun safety procedures greatly reduces the risk of having this fantasy scenario happen.

However, again if it does happen, then that is when you have to say, sometimes bad things happen to good people.

Like I said, you seem to be under the impression that everyone in this video has not had any proper training.  Some may have been properly trained and they still did something stupid.  Hopefully some are just a "Oops, won't happen again".

Think about this:  We make it mandatory to pass a drivers test (which we have to pay for) to get a license, people know that it is not only stupid, but against the law, to be drunk and drive.  Yet we still have idiots doing just that.

What if a drunk driver kills a friend or family member?

[fredtoast]

(02-21-2016, 03:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hopefully they will be convicted of murder and punished accordingly.


This is a fun game:

What if one day they defend one of your friends or family members?

(02-21-2016, 03:17 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Oh... what if scenarios.  I thought you didn't like imaginary situations.  Now it seems they are fine.


To answer your question.  Bad things happen in life. 

Luckily none of my friends or family hang out with these types of idiots.

My close friends are a lo like me and know all about proper safety.

My close family, some use guns, others don't like them around.  The idiot members of my family, I only associate with during certain times and those are the ones I chew out when they attempt something stupid.  I haven't had a time where they ignored me when I informed them of their stupidity.  They don't even try to protest.

So less exposure to the dumb ones and not being scared to put a stop to any failure to adhere to proper gun safety procedures greatly reduces the risk of having this fantasy scenario happen.

However, again if it does happen, then that is when you have to say, sometimes bad things happen to good people.

Like I said, you seem to be under the impression that everyone in this video has not had any proper training.  Some may have been properly trained and they still did something stupid.  Hopefully some are just a "Oops, won't happen again".

Think about this:  We make it mandatory to pass a drivers test (which we have to pay for) to get a license, people know that it is not only stupid, but against the law, to be drunk and drive.  Yet we still have idiots doing just that.

What if a drunk driver kills a friend or family member?

See what I mean.  All I did was suggest that it be mandatory for anyone who wants to own a gun to pass a gun safety test and I get attacked by the usual suspects.

[fredtoast]

(02-21-2016, 03:17 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Think about this:  We make it mandatory to pass a drivers test (which we have to pay for) to get a license, people know that it is not only stupid, but against the law, to be drunk and drive.  Yet we still have idiots doing just that.

What if a drunk driver kills a friend or family member?

If it was legal to drink and drive and no one was required to have a drivers license I believe that traffic deaths would increase dramatically.  I think the number of innocent people killed would skyrocket.

What do you think?

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-21-2016, 03:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: See what I mean.  All I did was suggest that it be mandatory for anyone who wants to own a gun to pass a gun safety test and I get attacked by the usual suspects.

The fact that you think an informed response back to your question is an "attack" is quite humorous.

Actually I didn't respond to your post.  I responded to someone else, who responded to your post.  I explained to that person why I would be against your proposal as it wouldn't stop these videos from happening.

You then asked a what if question.  I seem to recall you not liking imaginary scenarios, but this must be one of the times that you have decided to break your rules.  It does happen.  I don't normally like to answer a question with a question, but I do it from time to time.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-21-2016, 03:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If it was legal to drink and drive and no one was required to have a drivers license I believe that traffic deaths would increase dramatically.  I think the number of innocent people killed would skyrocket.

What do you think?

Well, considering that I have been to places where getting a license is as easy as getting a picture taken, no test needed and drinking is a favorite past time, I would have to disagree with you. 

It is actually very surprising how few automobile accidents that there were in these countries.

Now, before you get the wrong impression, these countries do have laws against drinking and driving, they also have a license program.  These programs just aren't enforced.  The laws aren't enforced.  I hailed a "cab" and the driver couldn't have been older than 12, but he did know how to drive.

Of course that is just what I think.  I am sure you will just call me a liar and ask for evidence on what you clearly meant to be an opinion.

[fredtoast]

(02-21-2016, 03:53 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Well, considering that I have been to places where getting a license is as easy as getting a picture taken, no test needed and drinking is a favorite past time, I would have to disagree with you. 

It is actually very surprising how few automobile accidents that there were in these countries.

Now, before you get the wrong impression, these countries do have laws against drinking and driving, they also have a license program.  These programs just aren't enforced.  The laws aren't enforced.  I hailed a "cab" and the driver couldn't have been older than 12, but he did know how to drive.

Of course that is just what I think.  I am sure you will just call me a liar and ask for evidence on what you clearly meant to be an opinion.

Still not sure I understand your answer.

I believe that if we did not have laws against driving drunk and had no requirement for drivers license then the number of traffic deaths would increase dramatically.  The number of innocent people killed would skyrocket.

What do you think?

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-21-2016, 04:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Still not sure I understand your answer.

I believe that if we did not have laws against driving drunk and had no requirement for drivers license then the number of traffic deaths would increase dramatically.  The number of innocent people killed would skyrocket.

What do you think?

Well, considering that I have been to places where getting a license is as easy as getting a picture taken, no test needed and drinking is a favorite past time, I would have to disagree with you. 

It is actually very surprising how few automobile accidents that there were in these countries.

Now, before you get the wrong impression, these countries do have laws against drinking and driving, they also have a license program.  These programs just aren't enforced.  The laws aren't enforced.  I hailed a "cab" and the driver couldn't have been older than 12, but he did know how to drive.

Of course that is just what I think.  I am sure you will just call me a liar and ask for evidence on what you clearly meant to be an opinion.

[fredtoast]

(02-21-2016, 04:24 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Well, considering that I have been to places where getting a license is as easy as getting a picture taken, no test needed and drinking is a favorite past time, I would have to disagree with you. 

It is actually very surprising how few automobile accidents that there were in these countries.

Now, before you get the wrong impression, these countries do have laws against drinking and driving, they also have a license program.  These programs just aren't enforced.  The laws aren't enforced.  I hailed a "cab" and the driver couldn't have been older than 12, but he did know how to drive.

Of course that is just what I think.  I am sure you will just call me a liar and ask for evidence on what you clearly meant to be an opinion.

What country was this?


I strongly disagree with you.  I think that people would be drinking and driving and killing people all obver the place if there were no laws against it.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-21-2016, 04:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What country was this?


I strongly disagree with you.  I think that people would be drinking and driving and killing people all obver the place if there were no laws against it.

There were a few.

Korea has lax laws in regulating drivers.

Thailand has lax laws.

Uganda has very lax laws. (This is where the kid was)

I am told some of the other less talked about Muslim countries are pretty lax with their laws.

Like I said, they have the laws, but the laws aren't strictly enforced.

I don't know what the punishments are for violators, but the locals didn't seem to worry too much about them.

That is because you think people can't be trusted to govern themselves.

[fredtoast]

(02-21-2016, 04:38 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: There were a few.

Korea has lax laws in regulating drivers.

Thailand has lax laws.

Uganda has very lax laws. (This is where the kid was)

I am told some of the other less talked about Muslim countries are pretty lax with their laws.

Like I said, they have the laws, but the laws aren't strictly enforced.

I don't know what the punishments are for violators, but the locals didn't seem to worry too much about them.

That is because you think people can't be trusted to govern themselves.

Still not following what you are saying.

Are you saying these people all drove drunk and did not wreck, or are you saying that they did not drive drunk?

Seems to me you are claiming that they were all driving drunk but not wrecking.  Otherwise how would you know how strongly the laws were enforced.

I really find it hard top believe that people in other countries can drink and drive without wrecking.

[*bfine32*]

(02-21-2016, 03:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: See what I mean.  All I did was suggest that it be mandatory for anyone who wants to own a gun to pass a gun safety test and I get attacked by the usual suspects.

You asked what if someone's loved one got killed and in Fred logic that is you getting attacked. I just thought playing the "what if" game, like you did, would be fun.

I have always been in favor of licensing for gun ownership. Matter of fact I have suggested it be exactly like driver's licensing. You must obtain a "learner's permit" to obtain a firearm (Background check and basic firearms knowledge exam). With this permit you can maintain the gun at your residence and open carry it to the firing range. Once you are proficient you can test out at a certified range and then go get your license. This license allows you to conceal carry where ever firearms are allowed.

But roll with the victim card of you being attacked.

[*bfine32*]

(02-21-2016, 03:47 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: The fact that you think an informed response back to your question is an "attack" is quite humorous.

Fred plays the victim card. 

[Rotobeast]

(02-21-2016, 05:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have always been in favor of licensing for gun ownership. Matter of fact I have suggested it be exactly like driver's licensing. You must obtain a "learner's permit" to obtain a firearm (Background check and basic firearms knowledge exam). With this permit you can maintain the gun at your residence and open carry it to the firing range. Once you are proficient you can test out at a certified range and then go get your license. This license allows you to conceal carry where ever firearms are allowed.

I like that plan.
As long as we never get something where we have to pay for each individual firearm (like license plates on multiple cars).

[*bfine32*]

(02-21-2016, 07:44 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: I like that plan.
As long as we never get something where we have to pay for each individual firearm (like license plates on multiple cars).

...and I think that is folk's biggest push back. Despite what some think, nobody rational wants anybody with no sense operating a firearm. 

I would go with a license that had to be renewed every 4ish years like your drivers license and just like your drivers license, renewal is not dependent on how many vehicles/cars you own or their value. Also a special endorsement would be required for long barrel and larger caliber. 

[Benton]

this is the only board in the world that can screw up a thread that starts with a picture of chick in a bikini.

:sad:

[Rotobeast]

(02-21-2016, 08:46 PM)Benton Wrote: this is the only board in the world that can screw up a thread that starts with a picture of chick in a bikini.

:sad: