RNC calls January 6th..."legitimate political discourse." Interested on conservatives point of view?
C'mon RNC, you guys. They wanted to drag Mike Pence through the streets.
Warning, language.
But is this "legitimate?" I challenge all reading to watch the 2nd video to it's entirety, and then please define "legitimate political discouse" under the Republican definition.
Legitimate political discourse would be something like the many peaceful protests of the Vietnam war, or those peaceful Civil Rights marches by MLK and others. In recent years it would have been those peaceful protests over racism, but not the ones that had rioters and looters. To suggest that January 6th was 'legitimate political discourse', when the President of the United States betrayed his oath to defend and uphold the Constitution of the U.S. as his peaceful patriots stormed into Capitol building leaving 7 dead in their wake is beyond shameful.
Anyways the Republican party is a lost cause these days. I left the party just over a decade ago mainly due to social justice and the environment (I'm now an independent moderate). Heck, I even started out as an intern in mid 90s for the then U.S. Senator Mike DeWine, who is now Governor of Ohio. And since I left the party it seems to have gotten worse in those two regards. But now throw in the overall general stance of the Republicans when it comes to worst pandemic in 100 years, numbers and facts still don't matter to many of them in office, which trickles down to many of their voters.
I dont like posting on political things especially in a Bengals Chat Room but how sad is our Country looking right now where this is "OK" to say about what happend last yr?
This is not a Politcal Party thing really, I see it more as a Country as a whole and who do we want to be ? ...and we are headed for a Nazi Germany /Castro-Cuba type of regime if Democrats dont start playing more hard ball. The Orange Turd has yet to be held accountable FOR ANYTHING and thats really the crux of it all. I wish we still had the old GOP in place, there are things I would agree on and sometimes not but it was a sane time that now seems so far away and forgoten.
(02-08-2022, 01:56 PM)kalibengal Wrote: I dont like posting on political things especially in a Bengals Chat Room but how sad is our Country looking right now where this is "OK" to say about what happend last yr?
This is not a Politcal Party thing really, I see it more as a Country as a whole and who do we want to be ? ...and we are headed for a Nazi Germany /Castro-Cuba type of regime if Democrats dont start playing more hard ball. The Orange Turd has yet to be held accountable FOR ANYTHING and thats really the crux of it all. I wish we still had the old GOP in place, there are things I would agree on and sometimes not but it was a sane time that now seems so far away and forgoten.
The crux of the problem is that we are not a "we" anymore.
That's why it is a matter of party, when one party can (without evidence beyond Trump/Giuliani/Powell claims) convince 50 million voters that that Biden stole the election, and the other can (with hard, court-admissible evidence) prove that Trump tried to steal it. One party is now under control of a leader, disgraced and voted out office, who still determines party priorities and who can represent it.
I agree with you about the wimpyness of Democrats. A few fight the rolling coup now underway, but too many still think the system will somehow just preserve itself, without decisive voter input.
Could be that he is preparing something behind the scenes and just waiting for the appropriate moment, but right now it looks like Garland and his DOJ are keeping their distance from 6/1 committee findings. They may be happy to prosecute individual rioters, but so far seem paralyzed before the prospect of dealing with those who engineered the coup attempt, which went much further than the hundreds actually engaged in the break in.
We are in a crisis of accountability, with a limited time window for fixing that before the perps are back in power--those who will define the break in and coup as "legitimate political discourse." Nothing to prosecute there.
(02-08-2022, 04:30 PM)Dill Wrote: The crux of the problem is that we are not a "we" anymore.
That's why it is a matter of party, when one party can (without evidence beyond Trump/Giuliani/Powell claims) convince 50 million voters that that Biden stole the election, and the other can (with hard, court-admissible evidence) prove that Trump tried to steal it. One party is now under control of a leader, disgraced and voted out office, who still determines party priorities and who can represent it.
I agree with you about the wimpyness of Democrats. A few fight the rolling coup now underway, but too many still think the system will somehow just preserve itself, without decisive voter input.
Could be that he is preparing something behind the scenes and just waiting for the appropriate moment, but right now it looks like Garland and his DOJ are keeping their distance from 6/1 committee findings. They may be happy to prosecute individual rioters, but so far seem paralyzed before the prospect of dealing with those who engineered the coup attempt, which went much further than the hundreds actually engaged in the break in.
We are in a crisis of accountability, with a limited time window for fixing that before the perps are back in power--those who will define the break in and coup as "legitimate political discourse." Nothing to prosecute there.
I remember when some people thought Trump wouldn't be the driving force of the GOP after losing. That didn't age well.
(02-08-2022, 01:23 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: RNC calls January 6th..."legitimate political discourse." Interested on conservatives point of view?
C'mon RNC, you guys. They wanted to drag Mike Pence through the streets.
Warning, language.
But is this "legitimate?" I challenge all reading to watch the 2nd video to it's entirety, and then please define "legitimate political discouse" under the Republican definition.
Good thread topic, Tiger.
LOL I am willing to bet that the RNC members who worded their censure would offer a definition we'd both find acceptable--independently of application to this case. And I would cast this a GOP, not a "conservative" issue. A lot of real conservatives have left the party or refused to endorse Trump. Notice the pushback in the Senate from Romney and McConnell.
There is an interesting theoretical issue here--how do we decide when it is legitimate to resist government violently, or over throw it? If Biden had actually stolen the election, then it would be hard to argue that the protestors, even the violent ones, were behaving illegitimately. I'd sure feel like overthrowing the government if Trump's coup had worked.
Our Founders set a precedent when they founded a government based on the notion of popular sovereignty, and the right of the people to change a government which wasn't working, doing their wishes. The problem has always been that in US, so many individuals and groups then decide they have a right to secede or overthrow the government whenever there is policy or political tendency they don't like.
The true father of US contractual government, John Locke, devoted the final chapter of his Second Treatise to explain why, under contract government and even if the people are "sovereign," they can't just decide to undo the contract whenever they don't like something. Government was created in the first place to defend against the kind of anarchy represented by, say, some Michigan militia.
(02-08-2022, 04:32 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I remember when some people thought Trump wouldn't be the driving force of the GOP after losing. That didn't age well.
Yeah. The flip side of 2016, when no one thought he could win the GOP primary, and then when he won that he could not be Hillary.
The old rules and measures don't work for the current GOP.
The guy who enjoyed watching the Capitol riot on tv, rewinding and replaying his favorite parts while the riot was underway and ignoring calls from his Fox friends to stop it, is still the GOP front runner in "who would you vote for?" polls.
Just saw a discussion on CNN about all those boxes of records illegally brought to Mar a Lago, many having been ripped up.
Made me think of the days when Hillary was condemned for wiping a server and the GOP stood for record integrity and accountability.
Odd. Only 6 members chose to engage in this rather important topic? Or could it be that some people stay glued to FOX? You won't find mention of this stuff there. Shhhh...Sean might tell on us.
(02-09-2022, 02:35 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Odd. Only 6 members chose to engage in this rather important topic? Or could it be that some people stay glued to FOX? You won't find mention of this stuff there. Shhhh...Sean might tell on us.
When it comes to Jan. 6th, Fox News and other right wing outlets will instead discuss George Floyd riots or show some illegals crossing the border.
It's as if that day never happened the way it did, because it could make their premier leader Donald look bad.
(02-09-2022, 02:46 PM)Millhouse Wrote: When it comes to Jan. 6th, Fox News and other right wing outlets will instead discuss George Floyd riots or show some illegals crossing the border.
It's as if that day never happened the way it did, because it could make their premier leader Donald look bad.
Donald Trump has committed the exact same crime he accused of Hilary doing. Blatantly, according to his aides. Potentially a criminal indictment. FOX is covering the Canadian Freedom Convoy, and blasting Trudeau.
If we weren't playing in the Super Bowl in 3 days, I would begin to get spiteful right about here. But I'll be back after the celebration is all over with. Somebody who calls themself a Republican is going to respond to this, I promise.
(02-09-2022, 02:53 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Donald Trump has committed the exact same crime he accused of Hilary doing. Blatantly, according to his aides. Potentially a criminal indictment. FOX is covering the Canadian Freedom Convoy, and blasting Trudeau.
"The fear of death silences bad men." - Me
Just announced they found some classified documents in that stash.
DJT thought he was running his business where the laws and ruled be damned.
Just like everyone said: Make an egomaniac with no respect for anyone or anything other than himself the POTUS and expecting him to change in anyway is madness.
But the cult is still supporting him and still sending him money on top of it.
Warning: Reading signatures may hurt your feelings.
(02-10-2022, 01:42 PM)GMDino Wrote: Just announced they found some classified documents in that stash.
DJT thought he was running his business where the laws and ruled be damned.
Just like everyone said: Make an egomaniac with no respect for anyone or anything other than himself the POTUS and expecting him to change in anyway is madness.
But the cult is still supporting him and still sending him money on top of it.
Does this not scare any sane rational human? No matter which side you're on? Why are they being so silent? Biden is a failure, I agree. But Trump pulled an attempted coup, almost a military coup involving OUR military, to deceive our entire Nation. And that includes ALL of us.
(02-10-2022, 02:06 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Does this not scare any sane rational human? No matter which side you're on? Why are they being so silent? Biden is a failure, I agree. But Trump pulled an attempted coup, almost a military coup involving OUR military, to deceive our entire Nation. And that includes ALL of us.
Where are you getting the military coup part? I'm asking sincerely as this is the first I'm hearing of his using the military in his efforts to overturn the election.
(02-10-2022, 02:28 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Where are you getting the military coup part? I'm asking sincerely as this is the first I'm hearing of his using the military in his efforts to overturn the election.
They have reported, somewhere, I'd have to search, but he was considering using the military to seize voting machines and ballots. I thought this was general knowledge? FOX has had nothing on it, but it's been on ABC, CBS, and of course CNN & MSNBC. It was a part of the overall list of possibilities they were going to try.
(02-10-2022, 02:28 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Where are you getting the military coup part? I'm asking sincerely as this is the first I'm hearing of his using the military in his efforts to overturn the election.
Here's the most neutral report I could find. You can watch it all, or go to about 1:50 where he not only had the Defense Dept., but Homeland Security on it.
(02-10-2022, 02:44 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: They have reported, somewhere, I'd have to search, but he was considering using the military to seize voting machines and ballots. I thought this was general knowledge? FOX has had nothing on it, but it's been on ABC, CBS, and of course CNN & MSNBC. It was a part of the overall list of possibilities they were going to try.
I'll get a link for you.
The ideation of a military coup of sorts is there within the voting base, Trump himself, and his political supporters. I know General Flynn is no longer in a position of military power, but these is video evidence of someone asking him why the USA can't go the Myanmar route and his response was along the lines of "We could and we should."
Keep in mind, people who support this notion (who aren't gaining directly from it) are convinced that our current government is completely criminal and illegally seized power. The same mindset that our military is good and it fights evil is being aimed at our own country now and the enemy is our currently system of government and elected officials.
20 years ago our military did the "right thing" by toppling Sadaam Hussein and the Iraqi government, and today Biden is Sadaam and the US democracy is the corrupt system that the US military needs to boot in the ass courtesy of the red white and blue.
Honestly, this is pretty close to the status quo...we're just going to unwisely topple our own government and install a dictator here for a change.
(02-10-2022, 02:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The ideation of a military coup of sorts is there within the voting base, Trump himself, and his political supporters. I know General Flynn is no longer in a position of military power, but these is video evidence of someone asking him why the USA can't go the Myanmar route and his response was along the lines of "We could and we should."
Keep in mind, people who support this notion (who aren't gaining directly from it) are convinced that our current government is completely criminal and illegally seized power. The same mindset that our military is good and it fights evil is being aimed at our own country now and the enemy is our currently system of government and elected officials.
20 years ago our military did the "right thing" by toppling Sadaam Hussein and the Iraqi government, and today Biden is Sadaam and the US democracy is the corrupt system that the US military needs to boot in the ass courtesy of the red white and blue.
Honestly, this is pretty close to the status quo...we're just going to unwisely topple our own government and install a dictator here for a change.
LOL if that were a wrestling hold, you could call it a "Reverse Saddam."
Instead of toppling a dictator in another country to install a democracy,
you topple your own democracy to install a dictator.
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