Let's take an honest look.

[HarleyDog]

Without taking a stab at one politician or another, or one member or another, how is this economy working for you or those around you? No need for articles from sources one side or the other doesn't trust. Be serious with yourselves. What's your personal experience? Why do you defend or condemn the current administration and its policies as it pertains to you? I'm requesting from your personal standpoint. How have things effected you? How's your community doing? How's your family doing?

Our biggest debates here are probably immigration, inflation, government accountability, etc. Try to be honest without caving to your desire to defend your party (if you have one).

WTS, How am I effected? Things are much tighter than they were. Inflation has not crushed our household, but we do feel the sting. We don't do without, but I see it largely in my community. I see a rise in community dinners to the point where people are relying on them. I have seen a rise in crime, but not substantially. I live in a small town of about 5,000. My job and our goals have been impacted greatly. Demand on diesel fuel is lower than I remember, which is a big part of my gig.

Even though I live in GOP Indiana, I've noticed a divide in the citizens of my town. I would say maybe 75% of people in our town are GOP. But we've never had this disruption or divide like we do now. I hate to see it. I see it in families too. I also see a large increase in drug trafficking arrests. It saddens me. Recently, I lost one nephew to a meth overdose. It shocked me. I didn't even know he was doing anything. Our whole family was shocked. 

What are you doing to make things better around you? What are you doing to make things better for others? Just throw it out there.

[*Nately120*]

My family, my friends, and the wife and I are doing well enough that I'm not into what I see as a desire to really shake things up or burn it all down for a politician's promise that things will "get better" for us. Just my 2 cents.

If I were still between the ages of 14-25 or so, I'd be a lot more into the idea of shaking up the system.

[KillerGoose]

It's hard for me to answer this question accurately because of career differences. I am making over 4x the amount of money I was in 2019 when Trump was president. Have things tightened up for me? I have noticed prices increasing, but it doesn't have much of an effect on my monthly budget. I am largely able to buy whatever I want and still invest/save. I guess in this regard, I also don't put a ton of weight on the president and how the economy is performing. I tend to think that the president is incredibly overrated by most voters. The things that I do care about, I have been satisfied with in regards to the Biden administration. I am all for supporting Ukraine. I am fine with supporting Israel but I do like the administration focusing on civilian casualties. I am happy with the investment into infrastructure and I see projects all over my city. I am happy with the restructuring of student loan debt policies and selected forgiveness. I am also looking at the potential of Supreme Court Justices retiring and concerned about more conservative appointments.

Community wise, most of my friends are happy, healthy and doing well. My best friend is doing very well in his career and has baby #2 on the way. No monetary issues. Everyone else has also seen healthy career progression and are doing relatively well, babies, new houses etc. In my neighborhood, I have noticed several houses up for sale recently. My father isn't doing well, though. My mother died in March and my father is retired living on $2100 a month from social security. He has assistance from the Indian Nations, but his house is old and things are breaking and needing repairing, plus dealing with hospital bills. Financially, given his circumstances, he is doing okay and probably better than he thinks he is but he has to be picky. I go out and help him weekly around the house, mow the yard etc.

Overall, life is good and I feel fortunate. This is pretty much all due to the way my life has evolved and not really anything around Biden.

[basballguy]

For me, my friends, and my peers? Inflation is an annoyance but everyone notices it and moves on. Everyone still going on vacations, still going out, still making babies. Work still paying for travel, bonuses and merit increases still being passed out like candy.

My kids who are just trying to start life? A bit more of a struggle.

I honestly don’t get it. CPI should be mooning. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s being held down artificially until the election.

[NATI BENGALS]

Making more than I ever have. The most savings I’ve ever had. Also bumped up my 401k contributions to 15% at the beginning of the year on top of what I do in my own brokerage and IRA accounts. Was honestly surprised at how much food I got for $115 last week from the grocery store which will feed me and my Dad for a week. Leased a hybrid in 2017 and bought it outright 3 years later. Cost me about 17k total. Going on 7 years of free oil changes. I have averaged 39mpg since I’ve had it.

I’m a cheapskate. Constantly looking for deals. I refuse to pay msrp for anything. I paid interest on a credit card one time in my life for one month, every other time it’s been paid in full. Lived in the same family house for 40 years though and have never made a mortgage payment. Been shopping for a house for over 5 years… it’s tough when you are as big of a cheapskate as I am.

Coworker who supports Trump. Eats out damn near every day. Subjects himself to rightwing videos on YouTube daily. Pays full price for most things. Carries balances on multiple credit cards that he pays interest on monthly. He is also looking to sell his company stock so he can buy a new toy that isn’t a necessisty. He constantly tells me how bad the economy is. He is also a single father with two high school aged kids and is getting absolutely raped on car insurance. While I just have to look after my retired Father.

[*pally*]

My 401k is healthier than it’s ever been.

My medication costs, which were over $7000 per year last year, after insurance, were capped at $3500 this year and will be capped at $2500 next. I bought a new car and paid it off. It’s a hybrid so I only fill up once a month.

Food costs are up but manageable. Food and healthcare are the 2 big hits on my income other than my mortgage which will be paid off by the end of the year…8 years early.

I live on a disability income so we are not talking about a lot of income either but have not yet had to touch my retirement money. I live within my means.

All of my adult nieces and nephews are gainfully employed with 5 of them owning their own homes. They seem to be doing ok financially.

[CKwi88]

Managing as well as I can. My household has had to go down to one working parent as I have a son with special needs and a daughter that recently turned two. Just made more financial sense for my wife to stay home as childcare costs and transportation to therapies are absurd. We feel it mostly at the supermarket with food costs. I'm in the public sector so my health insurance is criminally cheap for how good it is, and the yearly raises and cost of living adjustments are helping significantly. I also drive an EV with free charging or cheap charging at home, and we have to fill up the gas vehicle twice a month max so I've been fairly insulated from gas prices. I also recognize that I am lucky enough to be debt free (minus the mortgage), so I'm in a pretty financially privileged situation. My family certainly goes out to eat less frequently, but I also attribute that to developing some cooking skills during the pandemic. The cost of eating out simply isn't worth it.

As for people around me, I lived and married in Brazil, which is in a significantly worse economic situation. I also work in a department that has representation from 15 countries from Central/South America to Europe to the Far East, all countries that have had a significantly worse go of it since the pandemic, so that has helped to gain some perspective.

It's understandable that most people care only for how they and their immediate circle are doing, but stepping back and taking a look at the big picture and being grateful for being in a country that has done among the best in recovering from a once in a century pandemic and the ramifications of the global supply chain issues and ongoing wars helps me appreciate the current situation we find ourselves in.

[HarleyDog]

(06-10-2024, 10:55 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: It's understandable that most people care only for how they and their immediate circle are doing, but stepping back and taking a look at the big picture and being grateful for being in a country that has done among the best in recovering from a once in a century pandemic and the ramifications of the global supply chain issues and ongoing wars helps me appreciate the current situation we find ourselves in.

Yes. Even our poor are considered rich in many countries. I would like to say we take care of our own, but that would be wrong on so many viewpoints in other discussions, and rightfully so. Regardless of the flank your staring at, we lack in some way. But I'm a realist and know we can't do everything.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-10-2024, 07:37 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Yes. Even our poor are considered rich in many countries. I would like to say we take care of our own, but that would be wrong on so many viewpoints in other discussions, and rightfully so. Regardless of the flank your staring at, we lack in some way. But I'm a realist and know we can't do everything.

There has to be fiscal responsibility somewhere. I do not think there is a poster on here who would take a loan out monthly, while already being in debt, to give to charities they mat or may not support.

I agree the poor in the United States have it better than much of the world's population. There is so much waster in government spending, and no one wants to give it a hard look and make the needed cuts to control the deficit and budget. Consider SNAP, where roughly 10% of those funds are spent of soda, which basically makes it a supplement to high fructose corn syrup. They could regulate soda out of the SNAP program's acceptable items, but they do not, and you can likely guess why.

I will leave that alone so as not to derail your thread.

Myself, I work for the county. Things cost considerably more now, but we were fortunate enough to refinance the house just when covid hit so it's a great rate. When factoring in inflation, I am definitely making less, as the contract raise rates did not match rising costs, vut we are doing good. We are shrewd with our finances and are paying off the house  (hopefully) by the end of the year. 

I see the results of Bidenomics in the field, where workers make more than ever for putting in little to no effort. This is the most entitled, overpaid, workforce I have ever seen in the service industry. As a result, service industries delivery worse quality, having more turnover, and anyone who wants a job can get one. Sadly, no one wants to work, and everyone job hops across the street for a position paying $0.50 more, without thinking of longevity, or moving up the chain.

At least that's how it looks around here. We estimate being down at least 30k due to the "Biden economy." I suspect many other households feel the same and will be voting with their pockets this time around. Americans keep hearing mixed messages, KJP says the economy is great , then then VP says most Americans are one $400 expense putting them into bankruptcy. 

Whoever wins, hopefully they right the ship.

[HarleyDog]

(06-11-2024, 08:12 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I see the results of Bidenomics in the field, where workers make more than ever for putting in little to no effort. This is the most entitled, overpaid, workforce I have ever seen in the service industry. As a result, service industries delivery worse quality, having more turnover, and anyone who wants a job can get one. Sadly, no one wants to work, and everyone job hops across the street for a position paying $0.50 more, without thinking of longevity, or moving up the chain.

Not sure this can be blamed on Bidenomics. More blame goes to the parents who raised these kids top be so entitled and unappreciative. With that said, corperate greed has forced us here in some manner. Employees see record profits from their companies only to live paycheck to paycheck. But I get your point. There is hardly any work ethic to be seen in todays applicants. This is why I search FB, search local criminal records, call previous employers (actually, contacting previous employers in my field is required by law), etc. If I see an applicant who has had more than 2 jobs in the last 2 years, I require a damn good explanation before bringing them aboard. But usually I don't give them the time of day unless they are in a location I am in need. 

[StoneTheCrow]

(06-11-2024, 10:29 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Not sure this can be blamed on Bidenomics. More blame goes to the parents who raised these kids top be so entitled and unappreciative. With that said, corperate greed has forced us here in some manner. Employees see record profits from their companies only to live paycheck to paycheck. But I get your point. There is hardly any work ethic to be seen in todays applicants. This is why I search FB, search local criminal records, call previous employers (actually, contacting previous employers in my field is required by law), etc. If I see an applicant who has had more than 2 jobs in the last 2 years, I require a damn good explanation before bringing them aboard. But usually I don't give them the time of day unless they are in a location I am in need. 

Man. I got my foot in the door at my company in 2015 and at that time getting on here was highly coveted. There were 70 other applicants for the position at that time, I just happened to know someone and had a halfway decent resume. I considered it lucky and still do. We had 45+ year employees retiring from this place. It was the job to have. Now, we can’t BUY good applicants.

[HarleyDog]

(06-11-2024, 10:47 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Man. I got my foot in the door at my company in 2015 and at that time getting on here was highly coveted. There were 70 other applicants for the position at that time, I just happened to know someone and had a halfway decent resume. I considered it lucky and still do. We had 45+ year employees retiring from this place. It was the job to have. Now, we can’t BUY good applicants.

This problem started arising for me back in 2015. A bunch of us managers got together at my last company I worked for and had a meeting on how to get new employees. The quality of resumes left a lot to be desired, and you felt lucky to get one that had decent spelling or grammer. But one of the directors meeting with us had pointed out that he spoke to his son (who was 19, jobless, and still living at home), and his sons response to our problem was that people don't want to work 8hrs a day or 40hrs a week. They want time to enjoy other things in life other than working and coming home and eating and getting up the next day just to do it all over again. 

Granted, this is just a 19yr olds opinion, but we weighed it heavily and at one point even considered buying X-boxes for all the plants so people could play on their breaks. We started throwing sign on bonuses as well, but those didn't do any good when applicants realized they didn't get $2500 up front, and it was earned through the first year in quarterly bonuses. Also, we paid pretty good. I think the starting wage was $17hr (it was good back then).

This might explain why so many are choosing the fast food industry, and others like it. They pay may not be what it is to work 8hrs a day, but they get part time schedules, enjoy their lives and for those who qualify rely on the government for the rest.

[*pally*]

(06-11-2024, 08:12 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I see the results of Bidenomics in the field, where workers make more than ever for putting in little to no effort. This is the most entitled, overpaid, workforce I have ever seen in the service industry. As a result, service industries delivery worse quality, having more turnover, and anyone who wants a job can get one. Sadly, no one wants to work, and everyone job hops across the street for a position paying $0.50 more, without thinking of longevity, or moving up the chain.

At least that's how it looks around here. We estimate being down at least 30k due to the "Biden economy." I suspect many other households feel the same and will be voting with their pockets this time around. Americans keep hearing mixed messages, KJP says the economy is great , then then VP says most Americans are one $400 expense putting them into bankruptcy. 

Whoever wins, hopefully they right the ship.

Put a lot of the blame on the service industry itself.  They spent decades using and abusing employees.  Lousy hours, lousy benefits, lousy pay, lousy customers, coupled wth managers and owners who worked hard to cheat them out of hours or pay.  In a different job market the employees were programmed to believe they were stuck with a crummy job becase they were expendable.  Then COVID hit, and the pressure these service workers were placed under increased 10fold.  They were forced to work as "essential" employee.  They were abused by customers all for still lousy pay.  These employees wised up.  Some little minumum wage job isnt worth what they went through.  So they quit in droves...oops turns out these good workers weren't so expendable afterall.  

[HarleyDog]

(06-11-2024, 11:59 AM)pally Wrote: Put a lot of the blame on the service industry itself.  They spent decades using and abusing employees.  Lousy hours, lousy benefits, lousy pay, lousy customers, coupled wth managers and owners who worked hard to cheat them out of hours or pay.  In a different job market the employees were programmed to believe they were stuck with a crummy job becase they were expendable.  Then COVID hit, and the pressure these service workers were placed under increased 10fold.  They were forced to work as "essential" employee.  They were abused by customers all for still lousy pay.  These employees wised up.  Some little minumum wage job isnt worth what they went through.  So they quit in droves...oops turns out these good workers weren't so expendable afterall.  

Wow, you really went all out to blame everything on everyone else here. Granted, some of your points have merit, but you have to consider the way it is. Food servers are paid lower wages because they receive tips. Is that fair? Well, depends how you look at it. If you guarantee a waiter/waitress good money, then what is their inventive to provide good service? However, if their tips are the main source of income, then they are forced to provide good service and if they can't they don't belong in someone else business. 

As for the abuse, where is this happening? It's only abuse if you are led to believe conditions are different before accepting a job. However, to accept a job knowing beforehand what it entails, how can they cry abuse after they went to them for a job? I will agree that hours are crappy, but then again, most part time hours are crappy. I don't see where you get managers and owners working hard to cheat them out of pay either. Not saying it doesn't happen, but yikes. That's not the norm and usually places like that don't stay in business long once the word gets out. Lastly, I will agree customer attitude has taken a downturn lately. Maybe it's time we get rid of the saying, "The customer is always right." Because more times than not, it leads into soapboxing. There are better ways of handling service issues than throwing stuff in the restaurant and punching the server. 

[GMDino]

(06-11-2024, 12:31 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Wow, you really went all out to blame everything on everyone else here. Granted, some of your points have merit, but you have to consider the way it is. Food servers are paid lower wages because they receive tips. Is that fair? Well, depends how you look at it. If you guarantee a waiter/waitress good money, then what is their inventive to provide good service? However, if their tips are the main source of income, then they are forced to provide good service and if they can't they don't belong in someone else business. 

As for the abuse, where is this happening? It's only abuse if you are led to believe conditions are different before accepting a job. However, to accept a job knowing beforehand what it entails, how can they cry abuse after they went to them for a job? I will agree that hours are crappy, but then again, most part time hours are crappy. I don't see where you get managers and owners working hard to cheat them out of pay either. Not saying it doesn't happen, but yikes. That's not the norm and usually places like that don't stay in business long once the word gets out. Lastly, I will agree customer attitude has taken a downturn lately. Maybe it's time we get rid of the saying, "The customer is always right." Because more times than not, it leads into soapboxing. There are better ways of handling service issues than throwing stuff in the restaurant and punching the server. 

So should we cut everyone's pay to "ensure good service"?

Might make cable companies and phone companies work harder if they relied on tips.

Or police, politicians, etc.

[HarleyDog]

(06-11-2024, 01:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: So should we cut everyone's pay to "ensure good service"?

Might make cable companies and phone companies work harder if they relied on tips.

Or police, politicians, etc.

The better question is, should it be so hard to provide good service? If you apply for and accept a job with a company, it's not much to expect you to do your job. This has been a staple of the food industry for decades. Honestly, I think its a good model. If a waitress gives up good service, I tip 20-25%. If her service was so-so, but she was super busy, she still gets the same. But if it's so-so and her effort is minimal, I give 10%. 

Americans used to take pride in their work. And mostly, I think they still do. But the decline in work ethic is a lot worse than what I would have expected had you asked me 10yrs ago. But, to answer your question above. The occupations you listen above have (except politicains) have traditionally been good paying jobs and rarely would you get bad customer service (unless you were calling an 800# that passed you on to a foreign country).

But, I'm sure you will come up with an exception.

[*pally*]

(06-11-2024, 12:31 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Wow, you really went all out to blame everything on everyone else here. Granted, some of your points have merit, but you have to consider the way it is. Food servers are paid lower wages because they receive tips. Is that fair? Well, depends how you look at it. If you guarantee a waiter/waitress good money, then what is their inventive to provide good service? However, if their tips are the main source of income, then they are forced to provide good service and if they can't they don't belong in someone else business. 

As for the abuse, where is this happening? It's only abuse if you are led to believe conditions are different before accepting a job. However, to accept a job knowing beforehand what it entails, how can they cry abuse after they went to them for a job? I will agree that hours are crappy, but then again, most part time hours are crappy. I don't see where you get managers and owners working hard to cheat them out of pay either. Not saying it doesn't happen, but yikes. That's not the norm and usually places like that don't stay in business long once the word gets out. Lastly, I will agree customer attitude has taken a downturn lately. Maybe it's time we get rid of the saying, "The customer is always right." Because more times than not, it leads into soapboxing. There are better ways of handling service issues than throwing stuff in the restaurant and punching the server. 

The vast majority of service employees are not tipped employees.  Try being a hotel housekeeping having to clean 20-25 double rooms in 8 hours.  Try being a grocery store clerk.  Try being a line cook.

These are hard back breaking low wage jobs where you are on your feet constantly. We exect perfection from their performances but somehow we dont want to pay them for it

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(06-11-2024, 12:31 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Wow, you really went all out to blame everything on everyone else here. Granted, some of your points have merit, but you have to consider the way it is. Food servers are paid lower wages because they receive tips. Is that fair? Well, depends how you look at it. If you guarantee a waiter/waitress good money, then what is their inventive to provide good service? However, if their tips are the main source of income, then they are forced to provide good service and if they can't they don't belong in someone else business. 

As for the abuse, where is this happening? It's only abuse if you are led to believe conditions are different before accepting a job. However, to accept a job knowing beforehand what it entails, how can they cry abuse after they went to them for a job? I will agree that hours are crappy, but then again, most part time hours are crappy. I don't see where you get managers and owners working hard to cheat them out of pay either. Not saying it doesn't happen, but yikes. That's not the norm and usually places like that don't stay in business long once the word gets out. Lastly, I will agree customer attitude has taken a downturn lately. Maybe it's time we get rid of the saying, "The customer is always right." Because more times than not, it leads into soapboxing. There are better ways of handling service issues than throwing stuff in the restaurant and punching the server. 

What she wrote is IDENTICAL to how it is here in Canada: this is a worldwide issue, not strictly an American one.

As for us up here, I'm making 1/2 MORE than my salary was in 2019, however I was steadily being promoted and moved up in my credit union. We were swallowed up by a larger one last year and my hours+salary is capped, thus I can no longer work the overtime I used to and I will probably never get a raise ever again, unless I get promoted (which is a crock of shit at this company: nobody gets promoted unless you're a crony), so I have been slowly (but not intensely, as the money here is still good) looking for a new job and I may have 2 interviews lined up in the next little while, so we'll see.

But this has more to do with my specific situation and company and not the economy on the whole: it is amazing how cheap, uncompromising (in a bad way) and toxic this company is, yet the previous CU I was at was a complete 540 (let alone a 180). It's amazing the contrast in companies in the same industry.

As for day to day life, fuel has never been an issue, as I find my way around it and my wife drives for maybe 30 minutes a day (she works in town and has a split shift, otherwise it would be half that), so I fill up every 1.5 weeks (I work from home thrice a week, so I drive an hour 20+, twice a week), her every 2 weeks. Groceries have gone up maybe, MAYBE $20.00 a week, which is a drop in the hat.

We have always been more than fine money-wise, as I have a backup CC that I use only in Emergencies (which currently has a balance of $2,000.00 of a $15,000.00 limit on it, all from Balance transfers when we've needed a bit of a boost) and our total household debt (outside of the mortgage) is a shade over $15,000.00, which is more than manageable.

Also, $7,000.00 of that was for a loan I needed to take out last year, due to my timing belt snapping 2 years/40,000 KMs earlier than the, "expiry date," and putting us in a hole (and despite being in the warranty mileage, they refused to honour it unless it was on their {impossible} terms. Avoid Gates, assholes). We're in good shape for where we are, but we do wish to try for child #2 and buy our forever home, all within the next 2-3 years and for that to happen, one of us (or both, preferably) needs to make more money, otherwise, while we can do it, we would struggle.

We also don't have to worry about healthcare costs (though we are taxed significantly higher than you guys), so that is one major issue we don't have to deal with up here.

I will also add that aside from adding a child in 2022, our lives haven't changed at all for the past 5 years, since we purchased our home: it has been status quo the whole time, even during the pandemic (as financial institutions were all conducting business as usual and children still needed to be taken care of).

[HarleyDog]

(06-11-2024, 02:41 PM)pally Wrote: The vast majority of service employees are not tipped employees.  Try being a hotel housekeeping having to clean 20-25 double rooms in 8 hours.  Try being a grocery store clerk.  Try being a line cook.

These are hard back breaking low wage jobs where you are on your feet constantly. We exect perfection from their performances but somehow we dont want to pay them for it

I always tip housekeeping when I stay in a hotel. A line cook, grocery store clerk, etc know what money to expect when they take a job. Waitresses normally don't. Although, i did hear on the radio the other day that Tipflation is a thing now and people are starting to tip less because cost's are so high. Also, people feel tipped to death. Everyone wants a tip. Ok, not everyone but you get the picture. 

How I tip:

Waitress/Waitor
Barber/hair-dresser
delivery drivers
Bartender
Concessions vendors (Ex. PBS)
kids selling stuff door to door for school
The mailman (Christmas time)
Strippers
Housekeepers
Pastor
Anybody who sells me a winning lottery ticket
Cows
And a finger to people who cut me off on the highway.

I'm sure there's more, but all are tipped on quality of service. Well, except the last two. I just tip those for fun.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-11-2024, 10:29 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Not sure this can be blamed on Bidenomics. More blame goes to the parents who raised these kids top be so entitled and unappreciative. With that said, corperate greed has forced us here in some manner. Employees see record profits from their companies only to live paycheck to paycheck. But I get your point. There is hardly any work ethic to be seen in todays applicants. This is why I search FB, search local criminal records, call previous employers (actually, contacting previous employers in my field is required by law), etc. If I see an applicant who has had more than 2 jobs in the last 2 years, I require a damn good explanation before bringing them aboard. But usually I don't give them the time of day unless they are in a location I am in need. 

I get Bidenomics is not to blame for everything going on out there, but using it as the top name in the haze of the state of things. It is impacting all service sectors. Fast food paying a starting wage of between 12 and 20 bucks an hour is insane! I agree the industry does need to do more to pay employees more if they are there long term, but if the wages do not move, then it is up to the employee to get out of Dodge and make a better living.

I think people are head over heels for DJT saying he would eliminate the tax on tips, but what about the employees in the kitchen still being taxes, and likely making far less hourly than servers, who have less to do with the food and food safety. It is tough finding good applicants that will last beyond the first paycheck. Maybe moreagents for vetting unemployment claims are needed?

I agree a lot goes on the parents as well, and hate thinking this may be the start of a generational thing  that we will have to edure.