Let's talk about race

[Belsnickel]

Given the current events surrounding racial tensions, the topic is inevitable on this board. In the spirit of renewal with the P&R reboot, I wanted to talk about how we talk about race. Using language that can be deemed offensive is one of the things that can often get threads off track. It is for this reason I am starting this thread and providing a couple of resources on language related to racial identity. I want to foster civil discussion on this board and how we use language surrounding these topics is an important part of that.

This first link is from the American Psychological Association (APA). The APA style guide is what is utilized in many social science fields to help create uniformity in formatting and language choice. This is their page on racial and ethnic identities: https://apastyle.apa.org/style-grammar-guidelines/bias-free-language/racial-ethnic-minorities

The capitalization and all that isn't as important as working to make your word choice more inclusive. We're not editors reviewing papers for publication or professors assigning grades, but trying to use unbiased language is helpful in furthering civil discourse.

This second link is from the AP Stylebook: https://www.apstylebook.com/race-related-coverage

Again, this is more about word choice, so the capitalization choices and whatnot aren't as important.

There will be some pushback from some folks in here, and I get it. This is just an attempt to provide resources that can help us continue to have healthy conversations about highly controversial topics. I would prefer we never see someone suspended or banned from the forum, and trying to use language in an unbiased manner can help with that.

[*michaelsean*]

Well of course white people have a name you can call them that's offensive to others.

I'm going to say that the vast majority of people of all races and ethnicities couldn't care less about most of that. "Tell me you didn't put a hyphen in there!"

It's always interesting how accepted words become pejorative. I'm assuming it's because they eventually end up being used that way.

[Dill]

(07-14-2020, 10:59 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Well of course white people have a name you can call them that's offensive to others.

I'm going to say that the vast majority of people of all races and ethnicities couldn't care less about most of that.  "Tell me you didn't put a hyphen in there!"

It's always interesting how accepted words become pejorative.  I'm assuming it's because they eventually end up being used that way.

In the US context, during the 19th century, "Negro" replaced a host of pejorative terms for black people in public discourse because it was a scientific classification. It was used until the mid '60s (e.g., think of MLK's writings), when Stokely Carmichael called it demeaning and substituted "Black" (Black is beautiful).

By the 1980s, black scholars and some activists were pushing the term "African-American."  Following them, at a 1988 news conference in Chicago, Jesse Jackson publicly preferred the term "African-American" as an ETHNIC rather than a racial designation, and for a while at least most of the US press followed him on that. Jackson spoke of a moment of "cultural maturity," when Black Americans had achieved an integral identity and history similar to that of Jewish-Americans and Italian-Americans.

I sometimes use "African American" when treating wholly US race/ethnic issues, but generally prefer "Black," especially when discussing international race issues, like the history of slavery. I have a Nigerian renter and a Jamaican student rooming with us; it would be an embarrassing faux pas to call them "African-Americans."

Another objection to African American is that some immigrants from Africa are white, or at least not Black. It's confusing to call them African-American, if they gain citizenship here. Hard to shake the racial connotation.

[Belsnickel]

(07-14-2020, 10:59 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm going to say that the vast majority of people of all races and ethnicities couldn't care less about most of that. "Tell me you didn't put a hyphen in there!"

Which is why I talked about focusing on word choice.

(07-14-2020, 10:59 AM)michaelsean Wrote: It's always interesting how accepted words become pejorative. I'm assuming it's because they eventually end up being used that way.

It's also very subjective. I know indigenous folks that despise the term Native American. They will tell you they are not American and to never use that term for them. It's all pretty tough to navigate, but tools like these can help us do the best we can.

[BmorePat87]

great resources. I think people need to confront some truths in order to be able to discuss this topic.

The first is that we all have biases and we shouldn't try to act like we do not. Some of these are quite problematic or outright prejudicial. The fact that you have not experienced something does not mean that others have not, and understanding that can help you see how your own perspective has been shaped.

The second is that history matters. Things do not happen in vacuums. If we're going to confront race in the US, 400 years of race related issues matter. Understanding how events in history build off of each other and create multigenerational struggles is important when trying to find ways to solve issues related to race.

The third is that you do not know everything and some of what you know is wrong. We all have a lot that we can learn and unlearn. Keep an open mind and be willing to accept new information.

[*bfine32*]

Race is a social construct

[fredtoast]

(07-14-2020, 01:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Race is a social construct

Excellent reading skills.

Race refers to physical differences that groups and cultures consider socially significant.


As Bels said, the first step toward civil discourse is learning and understanding.

[Belsnickel]

(07-14-2020, 01:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Race is a social construct

Indeed. This is why it is especially helpful to turn towards the APA, probably the most commonly used style guide in all of the social sciences, for guidance in discussing it.

[Belsnickel]

(07-14-2020, 01:16 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: great resources. I think people need to confront some truths in order to be able to discuss this topic.

The first is that we all have biases and we shouldn't try to act like we do not. Some of these are quite problematic or outright prejudicial. The fact that you have not experienced something does not mean that others have not, and understanding that can help you see how your own perspective has been shaped.

The second is that history matters. Things do not happen in vacuums. If we're going to confront race in the US, 400 years of race related issues matter. Understanding how events in history build off of each other and create multigenerational struggles is important when trying to find ways to solve issues related to race.

The third is that you do not know everything and some of what you know is wrong. We all have a lot that we can learn and unlearn. Keep an open mind and be willing to accept new information.

I think another great thing to confront when discussing race is the idea of privilege. It's something that gets thrown around and misunderstood a ton. Some people think it's about guilt, but that's not it at all. Privilege is about understanding the inherent benefits that come from being white, or able-bodied, or straight, etc. I think using the able-bodied privilege example is a bit less controversial. When an able-bodied person walks into a building, they don't have to worry about whether there is an accessible way to get in. That's privilege. All that people are trying to do in discussing privilege is hoping you (universal "you") see that difference and realize how that can affect them. Hopefully, it can turn you into an ally for working towards equality. It's not about guilt, it's not about saying you don't have it difficult or didn't earn anything, it's just about recognizing how the world is a little tougher for some people for reasons beyond their control, and we should strive to end that.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-14-2020, 01:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think another great thing to confront when discussing race is the idea of privilege. It's something that gets thrown around and misunderstood a ton. Some people think it's about guilt, but that's not it at all. Privilege is about understanding the inherent benefits that come from being white, or able-bodied, or straight, etc. I think using the able-bodied privilege example is a bit less controversial. When an able-bodied person walks into a building, they don't have to worry about whether there is an accessible way to get in. That's privilege. All that people are trying to do in discussing privilege is hoping you (universal "you") see that difference and realize how that can affect them. Hopefully, it can turn you into an ally for working towards equality. It's not about guilt, it's not about saying you don't have it difficult or didn't earn anything, it's just about recognizing how the world is a little tougher for some people for reasons beyond their control, and we should strive to end that.

I have a little problem using the word privilege for being able to access a building without worrying about it.  That's probably 90% of people.  What if we make it a hundred.  If there are a hundred people who can't do something everyone else can, are all the rest of the people privileged?  

[BmorePat87]

(07-14-2020, 01:50 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think another great thing to confront when discussing race is the idea of privilege. It's something that gets thrown around and misunderstood a ton. Some people think it's about guilt, but that's not it at all. Privilege is about understanding the inherent benefits that come from being white, or able-bodied, or straight, etc. I think using the able-bodied privilege example is a bit less controversial. When an able-bodied person walks into a building, they don't have to worry about whether there is an accessible way to get in. That's privilege. All that people are trying to do in discussing privilege is hoping you (universal "you") see that difference and realize how that can affect them. Hopefully, it can turn you into an ally for working towards equality. It's not about guilt, it's not about saying you don't have it difficult or didn't earn anything, it's just about recognizing how the world is a little tougher for some people for reasons beyond their control, and we should strive to end that.

Here’s a post I wrote for class back in June:

Sian Ferguson, a writer from South Africa, defined "privilege" as "a set of unearned benefits given to people who fit into a specific social group.” It's not something to be ashamed of or to be enraged by when someone points out what privileges you have, but it is something to be mindful of.

Our experiences are defined by the privileges we do or do not have, and our experiences shape our perspective. Unless we learn to be empathetic of others and cognizant of our own privileges, we are incapable of breaking out of the bubbles we are in and critically analyzing other perspectives and experiences.

However, no amount of empathy or self awareness can allow you to truly understand what someone else experiences. You can support them, you can chose to not actively work to silence their voice, you can use your own privileges to amplify their voice when they lack those privileges, and you can listen and make the commitment to actively work to dismantle the structures that granted you privileges not held by others, because your privileges put you in a position to do so for others who lack them.


I read this article about the dangers of performative allyship and how you can be an ally:

https://forge.medium.com/performative-allyship-is-deadly-c900645d9f1f

"An ally is someone from a nonmarginalized group who uses their privilege to advocate for a marginalized group. They transfer the benefits of their privilege to those who lack it. Performative allyship, on the other hand, is when someone from that same nonmarginalized group professes support and solidarity with a marginalized group in a way that either isn’t helpful or that actively harms that group. Performative allyship usually involves the 'ally' receiving some kind of reward — on social media, it’s that virtual pat on the back for being a “good person” or 'on the right side.'"


The line that stuck with me was transferring the benefits of my privilege to others. While I did not have the privilege of a two parent household or economic comfort while growing up, that lack of privileges did not erase other privileges I have based on the color of my skin or my gender. One privilege I have that I can readily use is that as an educator.

I can use that privilege to help give a voice to my students. Being complacent or silent in not an option, and part of that means to embracing that black lives matter and ensuring that my curriculum and lessons do too. It is my responsibility to empower my students so that they can teach me and their classmates who do not share the same experiences as them.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/30/us/how-to-be-an-ally-guide-trnd/index.html

Other ways you can be an ally includes (but is not limited to):

reaching out
educating yourself and others from your own groups
listening
standing up
Read the article for more information on each of those. No one expects you to be perfect, but change has to start somewhere, and if you're unwillingly to change yourself then you may not see it occur elsewhere.

(07-14-2020, 03:30 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I have a little problem using the word privilege for being able to access a building without worrying about it.  That's probably 90% of people.  What if we make it a hundred.  If there are a hundred people who can't do something everyone else can, are all the rest of the people privileged?  

You lost me after 90%. Can you clarify?

[*michaelsean*]

(07-14-2020, 03:49 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Here’s a post I wrote for class back in June:

Sian Ferguson, a writer from South Africa, defined "privilege" as "a set of unearned benefits given to people who fit into a specific social group.” It's not something to be ashamed of or to be enraged by when someone points out what privileges you have, but it is something to be mindful of.

Our experiences are defined by the privileges we do or do not have, and our experiences shape our perspective. Unless we learn to be empathetic of others and cognizant of our own privileges, we are incapable of breaking out of the bubbles we are in and critically analyzing other perspectives and experiences.

However, no amount of empathy or self awareness can allow you to truly understand what someone else experiences. You can support them, you can chose to not actively work to silence their voice, you can use your own privileges to amplify their voice when they lack those privileges, and you can listen and make the commitment to actively work to dismantle the structures that granted you privileges not held by others, because your privileges put you in a position to do so for others who lack them.


I read this article about the dangers of performative allyship and how you can be an ally:

https://forge.medium.com/performative-allyship-is-deadly-c900645d9f1f

"An ally is someone from a nonmarginalized group who uses their privilege to advocate for a marginalized group. They transfer the benefits of their privilege to those who lack it. Performative allyship, on the other hand, is when someone from that same nonmarginalized group professes support and solidarity with a marginalized group in a way that either isn’t helpful or that actively harms that group. Performative allyship usually involves the 'ally' receiving some kind of reward — on social media, it’s that virtual pat on the back for being a “good person” or 'on the right side.'"


The line that stuck with me was transferring the benefits of my privilege to others. While I did not have the privilege of a two parent household or economic comfort while growing up, that lack of privileges did not erase other privileges I have based on the color of my skin or my gender. One privilege I have that I can readily use is that as an educator.

I can use that privilege to help give a voice to my students. Being complacent or silent in not an option, and part of that means to embracing that black lives matter and ensuring that my curriculum and lessons do too. It is my responsibility to empower my students so that they can teach me and their classmates who do not share the same experiences as them.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/30/us/how-to-be-an-ally-guide-trnd/index.html

Other ways you can be an ally includes (but is not limited to):

reaching out
educating yourself and others from your own groups
listening
standing up
Read the article for more information on each of those. No one expects you to be perfect, but change has to start somewhere, and if you're unwillingly to change yourself then you may not see it occur elsewhere.


You lost me after 90%. Can you clarify?

I'm thinking 90% of the population doesn't have to worry about how they are going to access a building.  At some point it's not privilege, it's just some people have a harder time doing things than others.  

[BmorePat87]

Another post from the same lesson:


One reason it is hard for people who are not inconvenienced by systemic racist to respond to it in a meaningful way is that they are comfortable with the status quo. This bubble of the status quo also creates biases and stereotypes that further help them ignore the problems that exist in society.


The following article was written by Sam Louie, a psychotherapist and author of Minority Report on Psychology Today's website.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/minority-report/202006/how-not-hijack-black-lives-matter

"As a psychotherapist and speaker who specializes in cultural issues and trauma, we can see unconscious bias or possibly even conscious bias coming forth in these retorts. More specifically, implicit bias is built into why people respond with, 'All Lives Matter' or 'Blue Lives Matter.' They are not comfortable seeing the attention and spotlight given to a cause that's not relevant to their lives. People negatively misinterpret, 'Black Lives Matter' to mean 'Only Black Lives Matter.' How does one misinterpret this? Confirmation bias may be at play. They infer from the phrase "Black Lives Matter" that African-Americans are singling themselves out as the only race that matters.

But nowhere do they confront their own assumptions and rarely do they accept feedback from a Black person on how this might negatively impact them because of the sociological effect known as 'White fragility,' coined by sociologist Dr. Robin Di'Angelo. White fragility, in essence, is the knee-jerk defensiveness white people get when confronted with actions that might be construed as having racial implications, or at the very least considered racially insensitive. Due to this fragility, white people often refuse to hear the cries, pleas, and concerns of not only African-Americans but ethnic minorities in general by blithely saying, "Oh, that's not what I meant" or 'That wasn't meant to be racist.'"



Stereotypes are another reason why people do not address systemic racism and inequalities. It is easy to make assumptions and promote stereotypes when you do not make an effort to expand your world view or when you refuse to engage with a community to discover the truth before passing judgement. Stereotypes sometimes are not explicitly expressed, intentionally or unintentionally.


Coded language is one way that people spread stereotypes and biases in ways that try to keep the message hidden at the surface level, though the subtext is clear. Some may engage in using coded language without malice, unintentionally perpetuating long standing stereotypes. When young girls who are strong willed are referred to as "bossy" while similarly strong-willed young boys are praised for being leaders and assertive, this plays into stereotypes and unfair expectations.

Some people, however, purposefully engage in the use of coded language with the aim of invoking a response in a specific group of people, understanding that they will catch the subtext. This is referred to as "Dog Whistle Politics", saying one term that only a select few will truly "hear" (as only a dog would hear the whistle). Using "urban" in place of "Black" or referring to "globalists" with the hopes of stirring antisemitic responses to people.

When Laura Ingram, a TV host at Fox News, told LeBron James to "shut up and dribble" after he voiced his opinion on politics, many saw that as an attack on him as a Black man, suggesting that he had nothing of value to add besides his abilities as a basketball player. Last week she responded to criticism of Drew Brees' comments on kneeling by stating "He's allowed to have his view about what kneeling and the flag means to him. I mean he's a person", making it clear to many about what she meant when she said LeBron's value was "bouncing a ball".

https://twitter.com/ComplexSports/status/1268551040074383361

[BmorePat87]

(07-14-2020, 03:52 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm thinking 90% of the population doesn't have to worry about how they are going to access a building.  At some point it's not privilege, it's just some people have a harder time doing things than others.  

Gotcha! Thanks.

I’d say that you shouldn’t think of privilege as only belonging to a small group. More so, think of it as a benefit that some in society have while others don’t, almost always for reasons beyond their control.

And don’t think of it as bad or something to be ashamed of, rather just remember how others not having it changes how they experience life.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-14-2020, 03:55 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Gotcha! Thanks.

I’d say that you shouldn’t  think of privilege as only belonging to a small group. More so, think of it as a benefit that some in society have while others don’t, almost always for reasons beyond their control.

And don’t think of it as bad or something to be ashamed of, rather just remember how others not having it changes how they experience life.

There is no doubt that I see many people who have endured or who endure things and I am grateful that I don't have to endure even though not enduring them is the norm.  "There but for the grace of God" type thing.  I have no problem saying that. I think it's just that to me "privilege" isn't the right word.  And I think I probably resent it being declared, and everyone just nods their heads.  "Yup that's privilege." I don't think of it as a benefit. It may be semantics, but privilege has a certain connotation with me, and this just isn't it.

[BmorePat87]

(07-14-2020, 04:08 PM)michaelsean Wrote: There is no doubt that I see many people who have endured or who endure things and I am grateful that I don't have to endure them even though not enduring them is the norm.  "There but for the grace of God" type thing.  I have no problem saying that. I think it's just that to me "privilege" is the right word.  And I think I probably resent it being declared, and everyone just nods their heads.  "Yup that's privilege." I don't think of it as a benefit. It may be semantics, but privilege has a certain connotation with me, and this just isn't it.

I 100% get that position. The word is pretty charged. Semantics aside, I think your attitude on seeing that we all go through different experiences and being aware of which ones are harder on them or harder on you is the right one to have. Regardless of the word, your perspective is an empathetic one.

[fredtoast]

(07-14-2020, 03:30 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I have a little problem using the word privilege for being able to access a building without worrying about it.  That's probably 90% of people. 

Ask one of the 10% if it is a privilege.

[masterpanthera_t]

When I see the word privilege in the context of this thread, I read advantage or benefit.

[fredtoast]

(07-14-2020, 03:53 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Some people, however, purposefully engage in the use of coded language with the aim of invoking a response in a specific group of people, understanding that they will catch the subtext. This is referred to as "Dog Whistle Politics", saying one term that only a select few will truly "hear" (as only a dog would hear the whistle). Using "urban" in place of "Black" or referring to "globalists" with the hopes of stirring antisemitic responses to people.

"Preserving western culture"

[BmorePat87]

(07-14-2020, 06:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: "Preserving western culture"

That's a great example. "Defending the family unit" and similar phrases is another one I didn't initially think of.