Liberal Cities are bleeding citizens to Red States

[Luvnit2]

The reason why people are leaving NY and California for Florida and Texas.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/moving-miami-new-york-can-save-some-americans-nearly-200k
"Florida saw the biggest rush of new residents, with about 319,000 Americans relocating there in 2022, according to data from the National Association of Realtors (NAR). That amounts to a population increase of nearly 2% — well above the 0.4% national growth rate recorded in the U.S. between July 2021 and July 2022.
On the other end red states that led in population growth include Texas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, Arizona and Idaho.
On the other end of the spectrum, California, New York and Illinois, which have some of the highest tax burdens in the country, saw the biggest population declines in 2022. California saw its population tumble by more than 343,000 people in 2022, although New York had the overall largest decline in its population with a 0.9% drop.

What will it mean long term if NY and California can't change the trend?
1. Tax income per state will decrease drastically.
2. Home and business property will decline in value due lack of demand.
3. Eventually due to population loss, it could change the dynamics of politics because these states may lose number of representatives.

These are deeply liberal states losing the battle to bring in more people and thus more tax revenue.

So simple question on the economy, do you want to live under high tax liberal policy paying up to 45% of your income? fr, do you want to live in a place where taxes are reasonable and you have a chance for your property and your take home pay to increase?

[SunsetBengal]

(06-10-2023, 01:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The reason why people are leaving NY and California for Florida and Texas.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/moving-miami-new-york-can-save-some-americans-nearly-200k
"Florida saw the biggest rush of new residents, with about 319,000 Americans relocating there in 2022, according to data from the National Association of Realtors (NAR). That amounts to a population increase of nearly 2% — well above the 0.4% national growth rate recorded in the U.S. between July 2021 and July 2022.
On the other end red states that led in population growth include Texas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, Arizona and Idaho.
On the other end of the spectrum, California, New York and Illinois, which have some of the highest tax burdens in the country, saw the biggest population declines in 2022. California saw its population tumble by more than 343,000 people in 2022, although New York had the overall largest decline in its population with a 0.9% drop.

What will it mean long term if NY and California can't change the trend?
1. Tax income per state will decrease drastically.
2. Home and business property will decline in value due lack of demand.
3. Eventually due to population loss, it could change the dynamics of politics because these states may lose number of representatives.

These are deeply liberal states losing the battle to bring in more people and thus more tax revenue.

So simple question on the economy, do you want to live under high tax liberal policy paying up to 45% of your income? fr, do you want to live in a place where taxes are reasonable and you have a chance for your property and your take home pay to increase?

At some point it would have to mean a redistribution of some electoral college votes.

[CJD]

(06-10-2023, 01:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: At some point it would have to mean a redistribution of some electoral college votes.

That occurred during the 2020 census. California, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois, New York, Michigan and West Virginia lost a vote. Florida, Colorado, Montana, Oregon and North Carolina gained a vote and Texas gained 2 votes.

https://electoralvotemap.com/heres-the-new-electoral-map-after-the-2020-census/

These changes will go into effect for the 2024 election.

Odds are the next time electoral votes are redistributed is 2030 via the 2030 consensus, effective for the 2032 election.

I believe once per decade is the requirement, but I'm not sure if there is some means to enact it between censuses.

[KillerGoose]

(06-10-2023, 01:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The reason why people are leaving NY and California for Florida and Texas.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/moving-miami-new-york-can-save-some-americans-nearly-200k
"Florida saw the biggest rush of new residents, with about 319,000 Americans relocating there in 2022, according to data from the National Association of Realtors (NAR). That amounts to a population increase of nearly 2% — well above the 0.4% national growth rate recorded in the U.S. between July 2021 and July 2022.
On the other end red states that led in population growth include Texas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, Arizona and Idaho.
On the other end of the spectrum, California, New York and Illinois, which have some of the highest tax burdens in the country, saw the biggest population declines in 2022. California saw its population tumble by more than 343,000 people in 2022, although New York had the overall largest decline in its population with a 0.9% drop.

What will it mean long term if NY and California can't change the trend?
1. Tax income per state will decrease drastically.
2. Home and business property will decline in value due lack of demand.
3. Eventually due to population loss, it could change the dynamics of politics because these states may lose number of representatives.

These are deeply liberal states losing the battle to bring in more people and thus more tax revenue.

So simple question on the economy, do you want to live under high tax liberal policy paying up to 45% of your income? fr, do you want to live in a place where taxes are reasonable and you have a chance for your property and your take home pay to increase?

Personally, I would be completely fine living with significantly higher taxes if I felt like the system worked for me and I benefitted. The common topic is always healthcare, which is pertinent for me right now. I tore my Achilles tendon last weekend and had surgery this week. I haven’t started receiving bills yet, but I am going to guess the total bill will be between $20k-$30k. I have insurance, but I don’t think insurance will cover my rehab, which will be several months long. If paying 40% in taxes meant that I didn’t have to pay anything, that you didn’t have to pay anything or any of my countrymen and women didn’t have to pay anything then hell yeah, I’d do that. Why wouldn’t I?

Now, there is nowhere in the US that has anything like this, so it definitely lowers my desire to live in a state with higher taxes because I don’t feel as much of a return. It’s part of the reason I live in Oklahoma, aside from my family being here. It’s cheap. Now, it is also a shit hole. However, I can make my money go very far, so I stay here.

[*pally*]

(06-10-2023, 01:58 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: That occurred during the 2020 census. California, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois, New York, Michigan and West Virginia lost a vote. Florida, Colorado, Montana, Oregon and North Carolina gained a vote and Texas gained 2 votes.

https://electoralvotemap.com/heres-the-new-electoral-map-after-the-2020-census/

These changes will go into effect for the 2024 election.

Odds are the next time electoral votes are redistributed is 2030 via the 2030 consensus, effective for the 2032 election.

I believe once per decade is the requirement, but I'm not sure if there is some means to enact it between censuses.

every 10 years per the constitution. The census is conducted beginning Apr 1.  Then once the results are obtained a new allocation is done in time for the next congressional election

[*pally*]

(06-10-2023, 01:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The reason why people are leaving NY and California for Florida and Texas.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/moving-miami-new-york-can-save-some-americans-nearly-200k
"Florida saw the biggest rush of new residents, with about 319,000 Americans relocating there in 2022, according to data from the National Association of Realtors (NAR). That amounts to a population increase of nearly 2% — well above the 0.4% national growth rate recorded in the U.S. between July 2021 and July 2022.
On the other end red states that led in population growth include Texas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia, Arizona and Idaho.
On the other end of the spectrum, California, New York and Illinois, which have some of the highest tax burdens in the country, saw the biggest population declines in 2022. California saw its population tumble by more than 343,000 people in 2022, although New York had the overall largest decline in its population with a 0.9% drop.

What will it mean long term if NY and California can't change the trend?
1. Tax income per state will decrease drastically.
2. Home and business property will decline in value due lack of demand.
3. Eventually due to population loss, it could change the dynamics of politics because these states may lose number of representatives.

These are deeply liberal states losing the battle to bring in more people and thus more tax revenue.

So simple question on the economy, do you want to live under high tax liberal policy paying up to 45% of your income? fr, do you want to live in a place where taxes are reasonable and you have a chance for your property and your take home pay to increase?

Most people actually want the liberal policies they just don't want to pay for them

Just because current red states may gain representatives don't make the assumption that people moving to these states will vote the way you want them to..   Liberals emmigrate too.  

[Belsnickel]

So, there is a lot of information on this. I mentioned some of it in another thread, but suffice it to say that it isn't all about taxes. It also isn't about fleeing liberal policies. There is more available housing in these places because they are building than in places like New York and California. The housing shortages in those states drive up costs. With the pandemic and more jobs going remote, it has allowed people to get out of the cities while maintaining the jobs they have always enjoyed. They get a NYC salary while living in BFE.

This does have some potential drawbacks down the road as we see a reconfiguration around the country. Overall, though, it isn't the taxes driving people away, but a broader cost of living situation that is tied to many different things.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-10-2023, 02:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, there is a lot of information on this. I mentioned some of it in another thread, but suffice it to say that it isn't all about taxes. It also isn't about fleeing liberal policies. There is more available housing in these places because they are building than in places like New York and California. The housing shortages in those states drive up costs. With the pandemic and more jobs going remote, it has allowed people to get out of the cities while maintaining the jobs they have always enjoyed. They get a NYC salary while living in BFE.

This does have some potential drawbacks down the road as we see a reconfiguration around the country. Overall, though, it isn't the taxes driving people away, but a broader cost of living situation that is tied to many different things.

Only until those companies can sell that job to someone who will do it cheaper.  That is the problem of many of the remote able positions, there are also many people with those same skill sets who may be willing to do it for less.

[Luvnit2]

(06-10-2023, 02:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, there is a lot of information on this. I mentioned some of it in another thread, but suffice it to say that it isn't all about taxes. It also isn't about fleeing liberal policies. There is more available housing in these places because they are building than in places like New York and California. The housing shortages in those states drive up costs. With the pandemic and more jobs going remote, it has allowed people to get out of the cities while maintaining the jobs they have always enjoyed. They get a NYC salary while living in BFE.

This does have some potential drawbacks down the road as we see a reconfiguration around the country. Overall, though, it isn't the taxes driving people away, but a broader cost of living situation that is tied to many different things.

So you keep saying NY and California quit building houses. This is a load of crap, not that they quit building, but the reason they stopped building. If over 300K people leave NY in one year, the demand for new housing would dissipate. It is very simple supply and demand, yes Florida is going crazy with building NEW houses and new commercial properties because when you are adding over 300K a year, they need a place to live and commercial is growing because new houses brings new businesses.

[Luvnit2]

(06-10-2023, 02:25 PM)pally Wrote: Most people actually want the liberal policies they just don't want to pay for them

Just because current red states may gain representatives don't make the assumption that people moving to these states will vote the way you want them to..   Liberals emmigrate too.  

I agree. But I have spoken to many new neighbors from NY, NJ, Illinois and Minnesota. They all said they had to get out due to high taxes and high cost of living. I told them please don't bring the higher taxes with you. I have not met 1 who relocated that supports liberal policy.

[Belsnickel]

(06-10-2023, 06:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So you keep saying NY and California quit building houses. This is a load of crap, not that they quit building, but the reason they stopped building. If over 300K people leave NY in one year, the demand for new housing would dissipate. It is very simple supply and demand, yes Florida is going crazy with building NEW houses and new commercial properties because when you are adding over 300K a year, they need a place to live and commercial is growing because new houses brings new businesses.

I'm just looking at what the data and people are saying:

https://fiscalpolicy.org/housing-costs-not-taxes-drive-migration-out-of-new-york

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/12/business/economy/california-housing-crisis.html

https://abc7.com/are-people-leaving-california-where-should-i-move-to-housing-in-moving/12821380/

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/faith-freedom-self-reliance/housing-affordability-helps-explain-why-people-move-from-california-to-florida-and-texas

https://news.yahoo.com/top-states-people-migrating-affordable-220809388.html

[*pally*]

(06-10-2023, 06:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree. But I have spoken to many new neighbors from NY, NJ, Illinois and Minnesota. They all said they had to get out due to high taxes and high cost of living. I told them please don't bring the higher taxes with you. I have not met 1 who relocated that supports liberal policy.

Well there you have it...you haven't met liberals so therefore they don't exist.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[*Synric*]

(06-10-2023, 06:36 PM)pally Wrote: Well there you have it...you haven't met liberals so therefore they don't exist.  

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Awfully conservative view point forcing people in one box or another.

[Stewy]

Using Florida as any kind of blue to red relocation indicator is dumb. People, especially, retirees, have been flocking to Florida from the North since the advent of AC.

Also, retirees are usually more conservative and want their money protected, thus they have a tendency to track more conservative with age.

Neither of these patterns have anything with a rejection of liberalism, and everything to do with wanting to be warm. lol

[samhain]

(06-10-2023, 08:00 PM)Stewy Wrote: Using Florida as any kind of blue to red relocation indicator is dumb.  People, especially, retirees, have been flocking to Florida from the North since the advent of AC.

Also, retirees are usually more conservative and want their money protected, thus they have a tendency to track more conservative with age.

Neither of these patterns have anything with a rejection of liberalism, and everything to do with wanting to be warm.  lol

In California's case, I absolutely believe that state government overreach has a lot to do with it.  Not saying that the people leaving are becoming conservative, but I think they'd like to avoid some o the red tape that isn't present in other states.

[Stewy]

(06-10-2023, 08:09 PM)samhain Wrote: In California's case, I absolutely believe that state government overreach has a lot to do with it.  Not saying that the people leaving are becoming conservative, but I think they'd like to avoid some o the red tape that isn't present in other states.

Sure.  I can see that.  I wasn't debating about which states people were leaving, but just saying calling on Florida as a destination specifically for conservatives is silliness.  People move to Florida.....because Florida.

I could certainly see people leaving Cali. due to the policies, but it also isn't the land of opportunity it once was.  So much homelessness that the govt refuses to fix.  Prices are awful.  Only part of Cali I would live in would be the Northern most portion on the border to Oregon.

As for me, I live in Texas, the most backwardass state this side of Alabama.

[samhain]

(06-10-2023, 09:08 PM)Stewy Wrote: Sure.  I can see that.  I wasn't debating about which states people were leaving, but just saying calling on Florida as a destination specifically for conservatives is silliness.  People move to Florida.....because Florida.

I could certainly see people leaving Cali. due to the policies, but it also isn't the land of opportunity it once was.  So much homelessness that the govt refuses to fix.  Prices are awful.  Only part of Cali I would live in would be the Northern most portion on the border to Oregon.

As for me, I live in Texas, the most backwardass state this side of Alabama.

Oh, I love San Diego.  It's the perfect climate.  I never feel like there's a reason to go indoors when I'm there.

I think Cali is wonderful if you just have more money than you know what to do with.  If you're in that position, you could live your best life out there.  Otherwise, it's a pretty messed up place.  Expensive, restrictive, and deceptive.  You drive down a street lined with palm trees in the bright sun, the whole time forgetting that a lot of places out there are as bad or worse than Detroit.

[Luvnit2]

(06-10-2023, 08:00 PM)Stewy Wrote: Using Florida as any kind of blue to red relocation indicator is dumb.  People, especially, retirees, have been flocking to Florida from the North since the advent of AC.

Also, retirees are usually more conservative and want their money protected, thus they have a tendency to track more conservative with age.

Neither of these patterns have anything with a rejection of liberalism, and everything to do with wanting to be warm.  lol

I guess you missed a Republican governor won by over 20 points and Trump killed Biden in 2020 race in Florida.

[*Nately120*]

There are still over 5 million registered Republicans living in California.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(06-10-2023, 02:06 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Personally, I would be completely fine living with significantly higher taxes if I felt like the system worked for me and I benefitted. The common topic is always healthcare, which is pertinent for me right now. I tore my Achilles tendon last weekend and had surgery this week. I haven’t started receiving bills yet, but I am going to guess the total bill will be between $20k-$30k. I have insurance, but I don’t think insurance will cover my rehab, which will be several months long. If paying 40% in taxes meant that I didn’t have to pay anything, that you didn’t have to pay anything or any of my countrymen and women didn’t have to pay anything then hell yeah, I’d do that. Why wouldn’t I?

Now, there is nowhere in the US that has anything like this, so it definitely lowers my desire to live in a state with higher taxes because I don’t feel as much of a return. It’s part of the reason I live in Oklahoma, aside from my family being here. It’s cheap. Now, it is also a shit hole. However, I can make my money go very far, so I stay here.

You can always move up here, where you wouldn’t have been charged a dime for any of it

Sure, your surgery may have taken another month to be done, but you'd have it (and the rehab) completely covered.

Pro and con to everything.