Lie: Democrats Say They're Deeply Concerned About Trump's 'Racism' On Immigration.

[hollodero]

(01-18-2018, 12:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Your fix would be correct if I was only talking about Trump.  I was not, I was referring to the GOP controlled Congress as well.  Whether Trump has a mandate or whether his approval ratings (which are likely as useful and accurate as the myriad polls that said he'd lose on election day) doesn't change the fact that he was elected and should attempt to effect his agenda for entirety of his term.  The point I've been making is that the GOP is doing what they said they'd do, the Dems are minority party in every possible way and still conduct themselves as if they should get whatever they want however they want it.

I'll reiterate, the Dems want to shut down the federal government, a move that will hurt US citizens, because they aren't getting exactly what they want for people in the country illegally.  This isn't really disputable.

I was under the impression there are bipartisan deals around (that find backers in the GOP and sure are not "exactly what Dems want"), only to be shut down by Trump. Because Trump says he'll sign any compromise (and takes the heat) one day and says the next day that he categorically needs this and that or there's no deal.

Even this McConnell seems not to know what Trump actually is expecting. No one seems to. Hard to reach some kind of agreement there.

[GMDino]

(01-18-2018, 12:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Your fix would be correct if I was only talking about Trump.  I was not, I was referring to the GOP controlled Congress as well.  Whether Trump has a mandate or whether his approval ratings (which are likely as useful and accurate as the myriad polls that said he'd lose on election day) doesn't change the fact that he was elected and should attempt to effect his agenda for entirety of his term.  The point I've been making is that the GOP is doing what they said they'd do, the Dems are minority party in every possible way and still conduct themselves as if they should get whatever they want however they want it.

I'll reiterate, the Dems want to shut down the federal government, a move that will hurt US citizens, because they aren't getting exactly what they want for people in the country illegally.  This isn't really disputable.

That's adorable that you still keep saying that.

Quote:As for a deal with Democrats over DACA, Kelly said Trump wants 700 miles of additional border wall and $20 billion in funding.

In a tweet Thursday, Trump wrote flatly that a wall is needed "for the safety and security of our country." "If there is no Wall, there is no Deal!" he wrote.

[Griever]

(01-18-2018, 12:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'll reiterate, the Dems want to shut down the federal government, a move that will hurt US citizens, because they aren't getting exactly what they want for people in the country illegally.  This isn't really disputable.

how would the government shutting down be the dems fault, when repubs control house, senate and WH?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-18-2018, 12:52 PM)hollodero Wrote: I was under the impression there are bipartisan deals around (that find backers in the GOP and sure are not "exactly what Dems want"), only to be shut down by Trump. Because Trump says he'll sign any compromise (and takes the heat) one day and says the next day that he categorically needs this and that or there's no deal.

Even this McConnell seems not to know what Trump actually is expecting. No one seems to. Hard to reach some kind of agreement there.

That's not how our government works.  Congress passes a bill, the POTUS signs the bill or vetos it.  There was no "deal" that would pass both chambers of Congress to even get to Trump.  For anyone to able to say Trump denies a "deal" he'd have to to be given a bill to sign.

[GMDino]

(01-18-2018, 12:52 PM)hollodero Wrote: I was under the impression there are bipartisan deals around (that find backers in the GOP and sure are not "exactly what Dems want"), only to be shut down by Trump. Because Trump says he'll sign any compromise (and takes the heat) one day and says the next day that he categorically needs this and that or there's no deal.

Even this McConnell seems not to know what Trump actually is expecting. No one seems to. Hard to reach some kind of agreement there.

There is.  I posted the story above about it.  Trump is gonna hold his breath until gets his vanity project funded by the US taxpayers...while the people voted for the liar will INSIST that at some point Mexico will pay for it.  It would be laughable if it didn't affect all of us taxpayers and not just rubes who believed him in the first place.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-18-2018, 01:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: That's adorable that you still keep saying that.

Is it?  Excellent use of a quote that doesn't refute my point.

(01-18-2018, 01:04 PM)Griever Wrote: how would the government shutting down be the dems fault, when repubs control house, senate and WH?

If the GOP had 60 seats in the senate then you'd have a point.  If the GOP successfully passes a budget without a DACA deal in place without the Dems filibustering it you'll have a point.  We shall see.

[GMDino]

(01-18-2018, 01:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Is it?  Excellent use of a quote that doesn't refute my point.

Isn't it awful when the unfiltered words of the POTUS are in actual opposition to what you think?

(01-18-2018, 01:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If the GOP had 60 seats in the senate then you'd have a point.  If the GOP successfully passes a budget without a DACA deal in place without the Dems filibustering it you'll have a point.  We shall see.

And if there isn't enough for Trump to buy all the legos he wants for his wall we'll see.

[hollodero]

(01-18-2018, 01:04 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That's not how our government works.  Congress passes a bill, the POTUS signs the bill or vetos it.  There was no "deal" that would pass both chambers of Congress to even get to Trump.  For anyone to able to say Trump denies a "deal" he'd have to to be given a bill to sign.

I get that. The reason there's nothing to sign though is not that Dems shut down the compromise. It's because Trump shut down the compromise in advance. Which lead to McConnell saying he won't put something up for a vote when the president is probably not signing it. That's not really on Dems and I doubt many will see that differently.

[Belsnickel]

(01-18-2018, 12:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Your fix would be correct if I was only talking about Trump.  I was not, I was referring to the GOP controlled Congress as well.  Whether Trump has a mandate or whether his approval ratings (which are likely as useful and accurate as the myriad polls that said he'd lose on election day) doesn't change the fact that he was elected and should attempt to effect his agenda for entirety of his term.  The point I've been making is that the GOP is doing what they said they'd do, the Dems are minority party in every possible way and still conduct themselves as if they should get whatever they want however they want it.

I'll reiterate, the Dems want to shut down the federal government, a move that will hurt US citizens, because they aren't getting exactly what they want for people in the country illegally.  This isn't really disputable.

(01-18-2018, 01:04 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That's not how our government works.  Congress passes a bill, the POTUS signs the bill or vetos it.  There was no "deal" that would pass both chambers of Congress to even get to Trump.  For anyone to able to say Trump denies a "deal" he'd have to to be given a bill to sign.

What you're missing in all of this is that they did have a deal that they had a whip count for that could pass both chambers. Trump shot it down because it wasn't what he wanted. They don't typically put bills like this on the floor without a favorable whip count, so the meeting was to hammer out any details before putting it on the floor. Trump decided to be a petulant child and not back the bipartisan deal that could've passed the chambers and funded the government. If they know he is going to veto, they aren't going to put it out there because they likely won't have the votes to override.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-18-2018, 02:29 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What you're missing in all of this is that they did have a deal that they had a whip count for that could pass both chambers. Trump shot it down because it wasn't what he wanted. They don't typically put bills like this on the floor without a favorable whip count, so the meeting was to hammer out any details before putting it on the floor. Trump decided to be a petulant child and not back the bipartisan deal that could've passed the chambers and funded the government. If they know he is going to veto, they aren't going to put it out there because they likely won't have the votes to override.

That's poor politics then.  You pass the bill and let Trump veto it, not passing anything accomplishes nothing.  Especially given how mercurial Trump is, giving him something to sign could always get you something you previously thought you couldn't get.  Even if Trump vetos you can continue to hammer out areas of contention when the bill comes back to Congress.  At the very least it would be making progress towards the goal instead of sitting around talking about how they'd like to make progress towards the goal.

[Belsnickel]

(01-18-2018, 05:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That's poor politics then.  You pass the bill and let Trump veto it, not passing anything accomplishes nothing.  Especially given how mercurial Trump is, giving him something to sign could always get you something you previously thought you couldn't get.  Even if Trump vetos you can continue to hammer out areas of contention when the bill comes back to Congress.  At the very least it would be making progress towards the goal instead of sitting around talking about how they'd like to make progress towards the goal.

But the Democrats can't put it to the vote. That is up to the GOP leadership because they control what hits the floor. They are likely scared to put it out there without all the ducks, including Trump'a approval, in a row. They have had some major legislative setbacks this Congress and their approval ratings are not any better than Trump's. The approval for Trump in the GOP internals is still good, so they can't be seen to counter him too much at this point lest they face his wrath later this year.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-18-2018, 05:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: But the Democrats can't put it to the vote. That is up to the GOP leadership because they control what hits the floor. They are likely scared to put it out there without all the ducks, including Trump'a approval, in a row. They have had some major legislative setbacks this Congress and their approval ratings are not any better than Trump's. The approval for Trump in the GOP internals is still good, so they can't be seen to counter him too much at this point lest they face his wrath later this year.

This is a well argued point.  I would still counter by saying the appearance of action is preferable to inaction in this regard.  A legislative defeat is embarrassing and carries momentum.  Being seen as doing nothing of substance to avoid a government shut down is far more damaging.  Still, they will send something to the Senate with no DACA provisions, at which point the Dems will have to make a decision on whether to vote to fund the government or not without a decision on DACA.

[fredtoast]

(01-18-2018, 07:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  Being seen as doing nothing of substance to avoid a government shut down is far more damaging.

And that is exactly what the Republicans did by refusing to let the bipartisan bill that would pass both chambers hit the floor for a vote.  That move would have had some "substance".

But instead they are going to play politics and present a bill that they know the Democrats will not approve.

And the only reason the Republicans are doing this is because they are afraid to alienate Trumps base within the party.  No matter how you spin it you can't blame the Democrats.  The only reason the bipartisain bill would not pass would be Trumps veto.

[fredtoast]

(01-17-2018, 11:58 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The agendas of that government were not a secret, hence people voted for that agenda.  To criticize the current government for trying to enact that agenda is to display the understanding of a two year old.

Oh really?  I could have sworn that the single biggest "agenda" point was building a wall that Mexico would pay for, yet......

(01-17-2018, 02:14 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I didn’t vote for the wall to be paid by Mexico. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-18-2018, 08:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And that is exactly what the Republicans did by refusing to let the bipartisan bill that would pass both chambers hit the floor for a vote.  That move would have had some "substance".

Yes, thank you for repeating what I just said.

Quote:But instead they are going to play politics and present a bill that they know the Democrats will not approve.

What about it makes it an automatic "no vote" for the Dems?

Quote:And the only reason the Republicans are doing this is because they are afraid to alienate Trumps base within the party.  No matter how you spin it you can't blame the Democrats.  The only reason the bipartisain bill would not pass would be Trumps veto.

Incorrect, the bill would pass congress, it just wouldn't be signed into law.  Has congress presented a bill for the POTUS to sign?  Please answer my question above.

(01-18-2018, 08:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Oh really?  I could have sworn that the single biggest "agenda" point was building a wall that Mexico would pay for, yet......

The wall is the single biggest agenda item of the current government?  Odd then, that they chose to wait an entire year before really addressing it.  Maybe the things they've done in the interim were more important, making them a "bigger agenda item"?  Welcome back from your long time ban btw, the hydra was missing its third head.

[GMDino]

We have been working under a #ContinuingResolution for three years now. Our current CR expires tomorrow, 19 Jan. This is wasteful and destructive. We need a fully-funded #FY18budget or face ramifications on our military.

— Dana W. White - DoD (@ChiefPentSpox) January 18, 2018

[GMDino]

I need to add to this mess that the POTUS doesn't have any idea how to lead.

He knows how to order...but not how to lead.

Whether he can have any effect on the negotiations or the end result you NEVER hear (even from republicans) that the President is involved with getting votes or coming up with ideas.  

AND he will still go on his weekly, tax-payer paid trip to his vacation house to golf all weekend.  He leaves at 4pm today.

Man, it's almost like y'all voted for a fat, lazy old man who would rather have other people do the work and who doesn't want to be bothered to learn anything about his new job.  All while chanting that his opponent was too "low energy" and probably dying because she coughed sometimes.

I know, I know...her emails.

Good job. 

[fredtoast]

(01-18-2018, 10:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The wall is the single biggest agenda item of the current government?  Odd then, that they chose to wait an entire year before really addressing it.  Maybe the things they've done in the interim were more important, making them a "bigger agenda item"? 

We were talking about why people voted for Trump, not what he has done his first year.

[fredtoast]

(01-18-2018, 10:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: What about it makes it an automatic "no vote" for the Dems?

No Daca.  No CHIP.  Too much money for the wall.

[*bfine32*]

(01-19-2018, 01:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No Daca.  No CHIP.  Too much money for the wall.

From what I understand they agreed to extend CHIP for 6 years and the deadline to fix DACA isn't until march.