Are Republicans under estimating Joe Biden

[CJD]

(06-27-2023, 11:37 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Again, all your rambling and 3 separate investigations and all said the same thing TRUMP NEVER COLLUDED WITH RUSSIA.


YES, THAT THEN MAKES IT A WITCH HUNT TO SPEND 50 MILLION JUST ON MUELLER AND NO CHARGES AGAIST TRUMP.

Now calm down, it will all be OK whether Joe Biden is innocent or guilty, whether Trump is found guilty or innocent.

[Luvnit2]

(06-28-2023, 11:47 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Now calm down, it will all be OK whether Joe Biden is innocent or guilty, whether Trump is found guilty or innocent.

I am very calm. I see a lot of people stating I am not representing the truth. So , I will recap and feel free to counter facts of things I state that are not true.

1. The DOJ spent over 50 million dollars on Russian collusion with Mueller investigation. Trump was never charged with a crime and cleared of Russian collusion.
2. Durham investigated the FBI and DOJ and why Trump was investigated initially. He found the FBI and DOJ had no verifiable proof of Trump wrong doing and we know the government used a fake dossier to trigger "Crossfire Hurricane".
2. James Clapper had a meeting prior to the 2016 election. He briefed President Obama, VP Biden, FBI director Comey and also Peter Strzok who Comey had given the case to investigate Trump. Clapper informed them the HRC campaign created a fake dossier to tie Trump into Russian collusion. HRC plan was to damage Trump after she was damaged by the investigation of her storing classified emails in her house in NY. Comey nor Strzok shared this information with the rest of the Strzok FBI team. Durham verified these facts in his report and also in testimony to Congress.
3. The FBI verified the Hunter Biden laptop in 2019 as authentic. But the FBI was silent when the Biden team got 51 former intelligence officers to sign a letter it could be Russian information. None of them verified the information in the letter, but signed it anyway so Biden could use the lie in a debate with Trump.
4. We now know Hunter Biden received millions from foreign countries. Yes, it is legal if: He registered as a foreign agent. Manafort go 4 years for that crime, so the jury is out if HB did register.
5. The Whistleblower testimony is not good for either HB or Joe Biden. It is also not good for the DOJ or the prosecutor Weiss assigned to the HB case. HB failed to pay over 1.2 million in taxes in 2017 and 2018. He also did not pay proper taxes in 2014 and 2015. In total, the whistleblower said HB unreported income and owed over 2.2 million. But, in the end the DOJ intervened and HB only paid the government back 1 million in back taxes. Please share any American who cheated the government by under reporting foreign income, also cheating on his deductions which is fraud that did not get put in prison. Remember, the DOJ charged the Trump CEO for fraud and tax evasion of hundreds of thousands of dollars, not 2.2 million. They put the 75 year old with no record in Rikers (tough prison) for 6 months.
6. The whistleblowers claim the DOJ interfered with the Weiss investigator. He claims they wanted to charge HB in D.C. and were stopped by a US attorney. Same for California, but US attorney stepped in and said no. Garland said he gave Weiss full autonomy (as he said better than a special counsel), but it now appears Garland lied to Congress. Weiss told 6 IRS agents in a meeting the DOJ stepped in and stopped in prosecution outside of Delaware.

More info is coming out everyday. Is Joe involved? The investigation is on going and we will find out as committees try and untangle shell companies laundering money.

I strongly suggest you take a deep dive into the whistleblowers testimony. Also interviews being done to educate the people about a 5 year HB investigation, but Joe Biden according to the whistleblower was off limits.

If true, why did the FBI and DOJ protect Joe Biden (in 2019 after HB laptop was verified), yet use no guardrails for Cross Fire Hurricane investigations against Trump. Why did HRC get a pass for stealing and also keeping classified documents on a server in her house? Why is Joe Biden given a free pass for stealing and keeping classified documents unsecured at his residence (where HB and his business partners may have had access)? He was only a senator and had no right to take home any classified documents.

The facts continue to come out. As for Trump, he seems to be as guilty as HRC, Bill Clinton and Joe Biden on handling of classified documents. Trump did destroy them as HRC did, but he appears the only one the DOJ feels broke the law. A vendetta is not a good look for the FBI and DOJ. Fair is fair, prosecute and convict all of them or none of them.


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-deposed-lawsuit-laptop-repair-shop-owner


"The FBI verified its authenticity in November of 2019 by matching the device number against Hunter Biden's Apple iCloud ID," Shapely said. "When the FBI took possession of the device in December 2019, they notified the IRS that it likely contained evidence of tax crimes."

HUNTER BIDEN-LINKED ACCOUNT RECEIVED $5 MILLION DAYS AFTER THREATENING MESSAGES: 'SITTING HERE WITH MY FATHER'

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-denies-involvement-son-hunter-chinese-business-dealings-new-message-emerges

[Arturo Bandini]

Why would I trust a link to a network who just paid almost 1 billion dollars because they were airing lies all day long ?

[Belsnickel]

(06-28-2023, 12:47 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am very calm. I see a lot of people stating I am not representing the truth. So , I will recap and feel free to counter facts of things I state that are not true.

Much of this has already been countered. Why bother?

[Luvnit2]

(06-28-2023, 01:21 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Am I the only one who reads the username as "Luvnut2" when the posts are in P&R?

Do you work for CNN or NYT?


Sad, you can't even get a screen name right.

[Vas Deferens]

Estimating from a lower position?

[Dill]

(06-26-2023, 07:45 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Actually, what he is saying is the objective fact of the matter. Because of the circumstances of the acquisition of the laptop as well as it being obtained under questionable circumstances there is no way to verify the contents of the laptop originating from Hunter Biden and if they were the information obtained would not be admissible in legal proceedings.

Actually, I believe it is possible to verify some or most of the emails as HB's. 

The problem is, though, that the questionable provenance means that all kinds of stuff can be inserted
in them that wasn't original, leaving all original identifying tags.

Just as I could quote your post above and add "Go Trump" or "Hang Pence" somewhere in there,
then "prove" you were closet MAGA. Everyone would see through that on the forum, but the principle is
the same for the emails, though the process is much more complicated, and unlike our forum, U.S. voters
would have little access to evidence or understanding of the process.

For propaganda purposes, it means certain Fox commentators can claim the laptop or at least some of the emails
as "verified" HB. But it doesn't make anything particularly useful for prosecution unless they can really trace 
track every possession of the laptop and account for suspected or apparent changes. Those emails could focus
investigators' attention on something mentioned in them though, and perhaps find something of firmer legal
evidence. 

It also means they can claim that all those signatures to a public letter noting the similarity of the laptop finding,
and its subsequent use in U.S. media, to Russian agitprop had "lied," though in fact the similarity is really there, 
even if the laptop or emails turn out not to be tampered with. So not a lie. Supporters of stop and frisk should 
understand the principle here.

[Dill]

(06-28-2023, 12:47 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am very calm. I see a lot of people stating I am not representing the truth. So , I will recap and feel free to counter facts of things I state that are not true.

1. The DOJ spent over 50 million dollars on Russian collusion with Mueller investigation. Trump was never charged with a crime and cleared of Russian collusion.
2. Durham investigated the FBI and DOJ and why Trump was investigated initially. He found the FBI and DOJ had no verifiable proof of Trump wrong doing and we know the government used a fake dossier to trigger "Crossfire Hurricane".

I am ready hit the sack, but I do want to respond to these two claims right now.

1. The goal of the Russia investigation was to follow up on contacts between Trump team and Russian spies. So far as I know, the investigation was not started to "get Trump." It was to investigate a general threat to U.S. national security evident in the myriad Trump team members seeking--and making--illegal contact with Russian operatives. Since the investigation netted at least six convictions, I would hardly call it a waste of tax payer money. It also caused the ouster of some two dozen Russian operatives working in the U.S. 

Trump himself was not the target of investigation until he began obstructing it. Then he very publicly brought the investigation on himself, and the Mueller Report states that it could not exonerate him from that charge. Trump obstructed--same charge prepared against Nixon. That was up to Congress to handle, since the DOJ had a standing policy not to charge sitting presidents. Also remember that Barr stepped in to deflect the findings and declare "nothing there" before the public could read the report. That's what you call "weaponization of the DOJ." Since most of the Fox audience does not check primary texts, the "Trump was cleared of collusion" narrative was born, supported by myriad misrepresentations by Republican politicians and pundits. (see second link below.) 

Pretty sure this is not the first time I have explained this to you. 

2. Again with the "no verifiable proof of Trump wrong doing." As if you were applying the same the standard to allegations of Joe Biden's Chinese millions.

It is utterly false to say the Steele Dossier was used to trigger Crossfire Hurricane. This matters because, as I said above, Trump was NOT a target of investigation in 2016. When the Australian government contacted ours about the loose-lipped Papadapoulos, that's when it began, in July of 2016.  While some allegations of the Dossier were corroborated by U.S. intel in 2017, so far as I can tell it was still being compiled when Crossfire Hurricane began, and did not make its way into FBI hands until Sept or Oct. of 2016, AFTER the investigation had started. It did play a role in the later Carter Page wiretap in Oct. 2016. 
Code Name Crossfire Hurricane: The Secret Origins of the Trump Investigation
https://web.archive.org/web/20190502194756/https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/us/politics/crossfire-hurricane-trump-russia-fbi-mueller-investigation.html

WASHINGTON — Within hours of opening an investigation into the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia in the summer of 2016, the F.B.I. dispatched a pair of agents to London on a mission so secretive that all but a handful of officials were kept in the dark.

Their assignment, which has not been previously reported, was to meet the Australian ambassador, who had evidence that one of Donald J. Trump’s advisers knew in advance about Russian election meddling. After tense deliberations between Washington and Canberra, top Australian officials broke with diplomatic protocol and allowed the ambassador, Alexander Downer, to sit for an F.B.I. interview to describe his meeting with the campaign adviser, George Papadopoulos.

The agents summarized their highly unusual interview and sent word to Washington on Aug. 2, 2016, two days after the investigation was opened. Their report helped provide the foundation for a case that, a year ago Thursday, became the special counsel investigation. But at the time, a small group of F.B.I. officials knew it by its code name: Crossfire Hurricane.
 
The Steele Dossier origin is entirely a fabrication of Republican pols.
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/dossier-not-what-started-all-of-this/



Off to bed now . . . .

[Arturo Bandini]

I don't know if the republicans are underestimating Biden or they just overestimate themselves.

[hollodero]

(06-28-2023, 12:47 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I am very calm. I see a lot of people stating I am not representing the truth. So , I will recap and feel free to counter facts of things I state that are not true.

I for one don't necessarily think you say untrue things. I rather think you intensely pre-select the truths, or say the information, you present. You use everything that can be used to help the conservative case (hurt the liberal case) and throw everything out that can not. You filter it. And then you present your sifted out sets of information to interpret them in your way, to paint the picture you want to see. You treat said picture as the one and only truth and keep ignoring all facts given to you that contradict that narrowed perspective of yours.
Then, if things don't really go your way in the ensuing debates, eg because people keep bringing up the information you want to ignore out of existence, you revert back to stage 1, leaving the debates be and presenting your extensive, pre-selected list of information once more, starting over with this distorted picture. And in a sense, I get it. You have two political philosophies to choose from and this kind of commitment is the result of that, and it's many Americans from both lanes acting in that manner in varying intensity, not just you. But for sure it also makes conversations with you (as well as with many Americans) pointless and utterly frustrating. Especially since you are not exactly brad, but have shown in many not so political topics that you are smarter and more sophisticated than that. Meaning that you are probably not just mindlessly parroting points, but are very well aware of the rhetorical tactics you deploy as described. But like a good party soldier, you still play this part anyway. That's what I would accuse you of.

As of your facts, I see they were already discussed with you time and again, no need to repeat other posters' answers on that really. I don't call any of your points false (in some cases I don't know), I call your interpretation and conclusions faulty and selective (like equating Biden's documents case to Trump's and so on). Hunter's a POS and probably got some leniency, that much I'd agree with.