Los Angeles is screwed

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-08-2020, 02:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The point I was making is that it is just your OPINION that these changes will result in the victimization of many more people.

I seriously doubt there is going to be a wave of teenagers who will start murdering people just because they will only be locked up until they are 25.

Duh, of course it's my opinion.  Of course, it's my opinion based on logic and facts.  Let's not treat this solely about major crimes like murder btw, imagine being a small business owner in a county in which shoplifting will essentially be ignored.  Or a property owner who's property is constantly vandalized.

(12-08-2020, 02:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You made my day by admitting this.

I'll bet.

Quote:I never call you names or accuse you of lying.  All I do is disagree with you and point out your clear bias or the lack of factual basis for many of your claims.

You're lying again.  You've called me names and hurled horrible accusations at me several times.  We both know what happened to you because of it as well. 

Quote:If that makes you sick then you need to grow some thicker skin.  But until you do I won't lose any sleep over your suffering.

Oh sweetie, you're placing far too much importance in yourself.  I don't think about you at all outside of when I'm posting here.  You make me ill in the same way that a person on Jerry Springer or Maury Povich makes me ill and that's the extent of it.

[fredtoast]

(12-08-2020, 03:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  imagine being a small business owner in a county in which shoplifting will essentially be ignored.  Or a property owner who's property is constantly vandalized.

I guarantee you that neither shoplifting nor vandalism will be ignored.

Why would you say such a thing?

[*michaelsean*]

(12-08-2020, 01:34 PM)Au165 Wrote: People have been failing upwards as long as the U.S. has been around, that is just another example lol.

Yeah isn’t there a principle named for that?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-08-2020, 04:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guarantee you that neither shoplifting nor vandalism will be ignored.

Why would you say such a thing?

Because he said it to his staff.  Just for juveniles though, so that's ok.  I literally feel terrible for the people of Los Angeles County who didn't vote for this guy.

[fredtoast]

(12-08-2020, 05:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Because he said it to his staff. 

I call bullshit.

Who exactly said this?  The DA or the chief of police?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-08-2020, 06:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I call bullshit.

Call it whatever you want, it's 100% true.

Quote:Who exactly said this?  The DA or the chief of police?

The newly sworn in DA, effective his first day.

[fredtoast]

(12-08-2020, 06:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Call it whatever you want, it's 100% true.

No it is not.  Someone is feeding you a line of bull shit.

The Chamber of Commerce would explode if shoplifting was ignored by the police.  They would not allow that to happen.

[GMDino]

(12-08-2020, 04:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guarantee you that neither shoplifting nor vandalism will be ignored.

Why would you say such a thing?

Maybe the police will quit doing their jobs until they can "do their job" again.  They seem to like that.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-08-2020, 06:28 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it is not.  Someone is feeding you a line of bull shit.

I wish you were correct, sadly I am completely accurate.  I read it directly from the memo he issued.  One of my former officers informed me that they reported this today on KTLA, but I did not see anything on the internet about that.  Hopefully it won't be long before these details become common knowledge and I'll be happy to update the thread with this when that occurs.

Quote:The Chamber of Commerce would explode if shoplifting was ignored by the police.  They would not allow that to happen.

The DA doesn't answer to the Chamber of Commerce.  However, your statement is otherwise inaccurate.  Police will still cite for shoplifting, the DA just stated he will not prosecute juveniles with a misdemeanor offense.  So it's not the police ignoring anything, although I do realize that's a fall back position for you.  But, again, I am pleased you grasp how insane this policy is.

(12-08-2020, 08:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: Maybe the police will quit doing their jobs until they can "do their job" again.  They seem to like that.

Seriously, just shut up.  You know how many people are going to be victimized because of these decisions?  It's not a matter for you to insert your inane quips.

[fredtoast]

(12-08-2020, 09:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The DA doesn't answer to the Chamber of Commerce.  However, your statement is otherwise inaccurate.  Police will still cite for shoplifting, the DA just stated he will not prosecute juveniles with a misdemeanor offense.  So it's not the police ignoring anything, although I do realize that's a fall back position for you.  But, again, I am pleased you grasp how insane this policy is.

Every elected official ends up answering to the Chamber of Commerce.  If the DA issued an official memo that said juveniles would not be punished for shoplifting then he would get crucified by the Chamber of Commerce.  Not to mention the loss protection department of mega corporations like Wal Mart.  

Does the District Attorney's office prosecute citations or does the individual officer?  Why would officers write citations if they will automatically be dismissed?  Your story makes no sense.

Until I see some confirmation I am still calling bullshit on this.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-08-2020, 09:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Every elected official ends up answering to the Chamber of Commerce.  If the DA issued an official memo that said juveniles would not be punished for shoplifting then he would get crucified by the Chamber of Commerce.  Not to mention the loss protection department of mega corporations like Wal Mart.

Well, he did, yesterday.  Also, it wasn't specific to shoplifting, it was all misdemeanors.

Quote:Does the District Attorney's office prosecute citations or does the individual officer? 

Uh, the officer issues a citation.  A citation is a promise to appear in court on a certain day to address the charges on the citation.  The DA's office then decides if they want to prosecute or not and if they choose not to then they will send a letter to the person in question informing them of such and that they no longer need to appear on the citation date.  Is the criminal justice system that different in SC?

Quote:Why would officers write citations if they will automatically be dismissed?  Your story makes no sense.

Because they're doing their job?  It's not their fault if the DA refuses to do his.

Quote:Until I see some confirmation I am still calling bullshit on this.

That's fine.  Even though I have posted on this board for well over a decade and not been caught in any falsehoods of any kind, feel free to have your opinion.  I will expect a major apology for falsely labeling me a liar when the truth comes out.

[Benton]

Death penalty is dumb and ineffective. And for a country that legislates based on faith, that's a big contradiction.

To the rest, though, not charging teens as adults on a case by case basis is a bad idea. They shouldn't always, but there's times they should. Taking that off the table opens up an opportunity for those individuals clearly not kids any more to commit a heinous crime knowing there's no fear there.

Don't get the logic behind the gang enhancements unless there's a social safety net in place for those cases.

Reducing crimes to a misdemeanor is a big canvas. In a lot of states, that's something that needs to be done. But it's hard to have a thought without more detail.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-08-2020, 10:11 PM)Benton Wrote: Death penalty is dumb and ineffective. And for a country that legislates based on faith, that's a big contradiction.

Yeah, I think most of us here are in agreement on this.

Quote:To the rest, though, not charging teens as adults on a case by case basis is a bad idea. They shouldn't always, but there's times they should. Taking that off the table opens up an opportunity for those individuals clearly not kids any more to commit a heinous crime knowing there's no fear there.

An extremely bad idea.  As it is, you can only request for a transfer to adult court if the minor in question commits a 707b WIC offense (murder, robbery, rape, arson, attempt murder, etc. you get the idea) and in practice it really only happens for murder or attempted murder in the vast majority of cases.  What's even more galling is that he's pulling the plug on all such pending matters as well.  This includes a case I worked on in which a 17/11 year old killed his girlfriend and her sister.  I won't go into further detail, but the case was especially heinous.  I can't even imagine being the parents of those two girls tonight.  Talk about rubbing salt in their wounds and spitting in their faces.

Quote:Don't get the logic behind the gang enhancements unless there's a social safety net in place for those cases.

I'm not exactly sure what your question here is.  The gang enhancement is used for the exact same reason the hate crime enhancement is used, that the crime is used to perpetuate an aura of fear in the community.  Apparently Gascon thinks it's a racist enhancement because it's usually used against black and hispanics.  Of course this ignores that the vast majority of gang members in Los Angeles County are black and hispanic, but ok.

Quote:Reducing crimes to a misdemeanor is a big canvas. In a lot of states, that's something that needs to be done. But it's hard to have a thought without more detail.

There's honestly more that I could get into, but I don't want to push the boundaries of what I should discuss on here.  I'm sure most, if not all, of what I've read will become public knowledge, there's simply too many people with access to it that are horrified by the implications.  What mystifies me is why anyone would think I'd lie about this.  To what end?  To make a point on a message board sub-forum generally populated by less than 100 people?  Are the lives of others so empty that they can see a reason someone would lie about this in that scenario?  


Like I said in my OP, I chose my profession because I genuinely wanted to help people.  I want to prevent people from being victims of crime.  I want to help show criminals a better way.  To dedicate 20 years of your life to this cause only to have one progressive zealot tell me it was/is all meaningless is a hard pill to swallow.  It bothers me than anyone will be victimized because of this persons progressive extremism.  It really bothers me that people who voted against him will suffer equally.

[Benton]

(12-08-2020, 11:34 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: .



I'm not exactly sure what your question here is.  The gang enhancement is used for the exact same reason the hate crime enhancement is used, that the crime is used to perpetuate an aura of fear in the community.  Apparently Gascon thinks it's a racist enhancement because it's usually used against black and hispanics.  Of course this ignores that the vast majority of gang members in Los Angeles County are black and hispanic, but ok.
.

Sorry, wife was talking while I was typing. I'm in favor of the gang enhancement, I just don't understand the thinking behind not using it and putting someone back into the same environment that got them there, unless there's some sort of safety net I'm not aware of. Similar to efforts to reduce some drug offenses to get people into rehab.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

As promised.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/crimes-las-prosecute

For juveniles, those accused of misdemeanors will no longer be prosecuted.

I'll expect my apology at your earliest possible convenience, Fred.

[GMDino]

(12-09-2020, 02:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: As promised.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/crimes-las-prosecute

For juveniles, those accused of misdemeanors will no longer be prosecuted.

I'll expect my apology at your earliest possible convenience, Fred.

Without knowing the nuts and bolts of the entire proposal (the article doesn't provide it and I'm still looking) I tend to agree that keeping juveniles out of the system is the best way to keep them from staying in it..in general.  Obviously there will be exceptions and mistakes made.  But the hardest part about being in the legal system as an "offender" is trying to get back out of it if you are young, poor, or both.

[GMDino]

Following up it looks like NO one is happy because he's making it less about people who make their living off the cycle of crime and more about trying to help the citizens.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-07/in-first-day-on-job-gascon-remakes-bail-sentencing-rules

But I did find this interesting:

Quote:Longtime critics of Lacey who saw her as an overly punitive district attorney, meanwhile, rejoiced after Gascón’s news conference.



Jerod Gunsberg, a criminal defense attorney who often defends juvenile clients, said it was a “new day” in L.A. County. He praised Gascón for his plan to move away from prosecuting minors, a strategy that he said had deep, negative effects on accused teenagers and society as a whole.


“I’ve been doing this for a long time. I’ve never seen a kid go into a juvenile probation camp and come out better. Ever,” Gunsberg said. “I’ve never seen a kid have a strike filed on them, at 16 years old and it improve their life or enhance public safety in any way.”

I mean it's almost like the pendulum has swung the other way and the corrections is going to wild but the end result may be for the good of everyone.

But then it's been three days and we've told LA is screwed so that's a possibility too.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-09-2020, 02:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: Following up it looks like NO one is happy because he's making it less about people who make their living off the cycle of crime and more about trying to help the citizens.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-07/in-first-day-on-job-gascon-remakes-bail-sentencing-rules

But I did find this interesting:



I mean it's almost like the pendulum has swung the other way and the corrections is going to wild but the end result may be for the good of everyone.

But then it's been three days and we've told LA is screwed so that's a possibility too.  

We've been told for three days that I was lying, but everything I stated is true.  Having zero knowledge of how the criminal justice system works I can see why you don't comprehend just how bad many of these "reforms" are and how they will result in many more victimizations.  Maybe Fred, who was aghast at the idea of juveniles being able to shoplift with impunity, will explain to you why this is so bad.  And that's just one facet of what this zealot is attempting.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Here's another source in case someone tries to fall back on "Fox News isn't a reliable source".

https://signalscv.com/2020/12/gascon-announces-sweeping-changes-to-county-criminal-justice/

Juveniles accused of misdemeanors will not be prosecuted, according to Gascon’s new directive.

[fredtoast]

(12-09-2020, 02:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: As promised.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/crimes-las-prosecute

For juveniles, those accused of misdemeanors will no longer be prosecuted.

I'll expect my apology at your earliest possible convenience, Fred.

You lied.

"Not prosecuting" does not mean "ignoring". It generally means processing the charges trough diversion programs that require counselling or other requirements.