Louisiana to require the 10 Commandments in classroom

[*pally*]

(06-21-2024, 07:58 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree with this. How can the ideals of the far left be permitted to be taught in schools? Why are teachers in some states not permitted to tell the parents their child wants to identify as a member of the opposite sex?

To me, you can't have one without the other. Either ban religion and ban anything political or anything to do with sexual orientation or accept they both have a role in the school system.

I agree public school systems all homeowners pay for should be governed by the voters in that community. National teachers' union for example should zero input on how students are taught, it is a state and local issue.

It is ludicrous anyone believes a child is mature enough to decide their sexual orientation until they are an adult. Why is there a push to punish or keep parents in the dark about parenting issues within the school systems?

 Teaching Protestant religious beliefs in public schools amounts to the government putting its thumb on the scale for a specific religion.  That is very much against the 1st amendment.  Non-Protestants have rights too.

 At what age did you discover you were attracted to the opposite sex?  I'll guarantee you it was well before you became an adult.  It is no different for someone who is attracted to the same sex.  Raging teenage hormones don't respect age.  When a child is old enough to make babies they need to understand how to prevent doing that.

If a child tells a school counselor they think they might be gay but are terrified to tell their ultra-religious parents because of a legitimate feat of violence or being thrown out of the home, is the counselor's job to protect the child or parents?

[*Nately120*]

Why can't people who want their kids to learn this stuff just send their kids to a Christian school like my parents did 35+ years ago? Oh that's right, everyone wants everything to be free now and no one wants to work for anything.

[HarleyDog]

(06-21-2024, 09:09 PM)pally Wrote: There are plenty of decent rules that schools can teach that don't involve religion

-kindness towards others
-treat each other with respect
-other people may have belief systems that differ from yours
-do not lie, cheat, or steal
-you are the only person who controls your emotions, actions, and reactions
-take responsibility for your behaviors
-own up when you are wrong

too bad so much of that falls under "social and emotional learning" and conservatives don't like that

It would be awesome and I bet conservatives would be on board if those were the things they were teaching. But you know it's not.

[KillerGoose]

This is not something I will ever support the government mandating. The United States is not a Christian nation, though the predominant religion is Christianity. I don't think the government needs to be mandating religious symbolism to be displayed in public schools. Any move that even pivots towards a religious state is one that I will never support. I don't think people who support this move would be so supportive if it was Islamic paraphernalia being mandated, or symbolism promoting atheism. I support pride month and the overall movement, but I would not support pride flags being mandated (or displayed) in public schools, either. Public schools should be neutral ground.

[HarleyDog]

(06-21-2024, 10:56 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is not something I will ever support the government mandating. The United States is not a Christian nation, though the predominant religion is Christianity. I don't think the government needs to be mandating religious symbolism to be displayed in public schools. Any move that even pivots towards a religious state is one that I will never support. I don't think people who support this move would be so supportive if it was Islamic paraphernalia being mandated, or symbolism promoting atheism. I support pride month and the overall movement, but I would not support pride flags being mandated (or displayed) in public schools, either. Public schools should be neutral ground.

I agree. But it's hard to debate this isn't happening when radical Islam is taking over college campuses, while many schools are not doing anything to protect the Jewish students. It's all about how you look at things I guess.

[Dill]

Reading all these responses got me wondering--

What if Louisiana required that the Sermon on the Mount be hung in every classroom?
Why choose the 10 Commandments over "Blessed are the merciful"?

It raised some more questions too--

Do people think "lack of god" is the problem in schools today?  Do they see this law as motivated by Christian nationalism? 

Do my friends on the right think separation of church and state is a form of "far left" indoctrination"?

Also, will the commandments be in short form? Will teachers take time to explain the first two?

Got to worship the one right god--that's had pretty bloody history. Would a statue of Jesus be a "carved image"? 
Why punish great grandkids for what great grandparents did? I'm wondering if the point is less "here's some good rules for
behavior" than political marker-- "we're taking back our nation, one classroom at a time." 

1. “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me." (Exodus 20:2-3)

2. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments." (Exodus 20:4-6)

[*pally*]

(06-21-2024, 11:09 PM)Dill Wrote: Reading all these responses got me wondering--

What if Louisiana required that the Sermon on the Mount be hung in every classroom?
Why choose the 10 Commandments over "Blessed are the merciful"?

It raised some more questions too--

Do people think "lack of god" is the problem in schools today?  Do they see this law as motivated by Christian nationalism? 

Do my friends on the right think separation of church and state is a form of "far left" indoctrination"?

Also, will the commandments be in short form? Will teachers take time to explain the first two?

Got to worship the one right god--that's had pretty bloody history. Would a statue of Jesus be a "carved image"? 
Why punish great grandkids for what great grandparents did? I'm wondering if the point is less "here's some good rules for
behavior" than political marker-- "we're taking back our nation, one classroom at a time." 

1. “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me." (Exodus 20:2-3)

2. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments." (Exodus 20:4-6)

Of course, that is the 2nd commandment for Protestants. The Catholic end amendment is simply The how shalt not take the Name thy Lord, our God in vain.

Now you have teachers having to explain theology differences to children learning different commandments. What are they supposed to say to those children who ask why the Protestant version is deemed to be the right one

[Dill]

(06-21-2024, 11:38 PM)pally Wrote: Of course, that is the 2nd  commandment for Protestants.  The Catholic end amendment is simply The how shalt not take the Name thy Lord, our God in vain.

Now you have teachers having to explain theology differences to children learning different commandments.  What are they supposed to say to those children who ask why the Protestant version is deemed to be the right one

Catholics have the wrong order of commandments. That's what some teachers might say. 

Plus they use tithes to buy golden candlesticks, as my parents explained to me.

I just watched Ben Carson on CNN. He was asked if he had ever seen the 10 Commandments on the wall in any Trump residence. he couldn't recall that he had, but Trump was not the issue. The issue was bringing morality back to our nation, which was founded on Judeo-Christian values.  God is mentioned in "founding documents" and the dollar bill. "Schizophrenic" to admit that but not publicly recognize that our country is founded on belief in God. 

Trump agreed in this tweet. 

“I LOVE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, PRIVATE SCHOOLS, AND MANY OTHER PLACES, FOR THAT MATTER.” Trump wrote. “READ IT — HOW CAN WE, AS A NATION, GO WRONG??? THIS MAY BE, IN FACT, THE FIRST MAJOR STEP IN THE REVIVAL OF RELIGION, WHICH IS DESPERATELY NEEDED, IN OUR COUNTRY. BRING BACK TTC!!! MAGA2024

if we see more and more of his supporters endorsing his reasoning, it looks like this is about more than just a neutral code of good behavior that no one can argue with. The GOP nominee thinks its about bringing our country back to religion, starting in the schools, public and private.

[HarleyDog]

(06-22-2024, 12:38 AM)Dill Wrote: Catholics have the wrong order of commandments. That's what some teachers might say. 

I don't want to upset or offend anyone of the Catholic faith. But as a Christian, there are some things about the faith I disagree with, so I'll just leave that at that.

Quote:I just watched Ben Carson on CNN. He was asked if he had ever seen the 10 Commandments on the wall in any Trump residence. he couldn't recall that he had, but Trump was not the issue. The issue was bringing morality back to our nation, which was founded on Judeo-Christian values.  God is mentioned in "founding documents" and the dollar bill. "Schizophrenic" to admit that but not publicly recognize that our country is founded on belief in God. 

Dr. Carson is a breath of fresh air. I can't begin to explain the admiration I have for this dude. Don't dislike him for his Christian values. If you look beyond your distaste of religion in politics, or religion period, he has strong values as a human being and has dedicated his life to helping people. 

Quote:Trump agreed in this tweet. 




“I LOVE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, PRIVATE SCHOOLS, AND MANY OTHER PLACES, FOR THAT MATTER.” Trump wrote. “READ IT — HOW CAN WE, AS A NATION, GO WRONG??? THIS MAY BE, IN FACT, THE FIRST MAJOR STEP IN THE REVIVAL OF RELIGION, WHICH IS DESPERATELY NEEDED, IN OUR COUNTRY. BRING BACK TTC!!! MAGA2024

I don't disagree in a sense because of the message. I do agree with most that religion in schools & government is not a good fit. I think America is desperately in need of finding our way back to the moral ground. I'm sure you'll find an argument in that statement, and rightfully so. What I think is good doesn't apply to all.

Quote:if we see more and more of his supporters endorsing his reasoning, it looks like this is about more than just a neutral code of good behavior that no one can argue with. The GOP nominee thinks its about bringing our country back to religion, starting in the schools, public and private.

But we both know he's not. His supporters (those that I know) couldn't give two sheets about religion. They want to prosper, raise their children, and enjoy life. They believe in working hard and rewarding themselves and family with their labor. They don't work to pay for other people's degrees. They don't work to pay for illegal immigrants to live a better life than them in some 5-star hotel in Manhattan with free meals and room service, etc, etc. 

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-21-2024, 08:10 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm gonna need more specificity here.

It was poorly worded and trying to be sly, a failure.

My overall point was meant to be that there is so much other stuff on walls in school that I see little harm in having the ten commandments hung on the wall. I do not believe it should be mandatory, but do not think there is harm in them being posted.

It is a very popular book, and I would not oppose reasonable passages being hung on the wall from other wildly popular books, like The Hobbit, Dune, The Alchemist, The Little Prince, etc...

Maybe I view the Bible too much as a piece of literature and think people should be aware of what is in it, even if they do not believe and/or follow it?

Just my take...

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-21-2024, 09:09 PM)pally Wrote: There are plenty of decent rules that schools can teach that don't involve religion

-kindness towards others
-treat each other with respect
-other people may have belief systems that differ from yours
-do not lie, cheat, or steal
-you are the only person who controls your emotions, actions, and reactions
-take responsibility for your behaviors
-own up when you are wrong

too bad so much of that falls under "social and emotional learning" and conservatives don't like that

Another fairly inaccurate statement, but at least you painted with a broad brush.



No pun intended.

[*pally*]

(06-22-2024, 07:40 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Another fairly inaccurate statement, but at least you painted with a broad brush.



No pun intended.

So conservatives are ok with teaching what is considered “woke”. Because respect for others includes respecting their sexuality or gender. It might even mean you have to use non-conformist pronouns.

Social and emotional learning has been under attack by conservatives all over the country

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-22-2024, 07:54 AM)pally Wrote: So conservatives are ok with teaching what is considered “woke”. Because respect for others includes respecting their sexuality or gender.  It might even mean you have to use non-conformist pronouns.  

Social and emotional learning has been under attack by conservatives all over the country

That is your opinion, but as we see on the world stage, not everyone agrees with your belief of sexuality and gender dysphoria being taught/supported in a school setting.

Some might even suggest social, sexual, and emotional learning are being exploited and forced on children in a perverted manner by the left, and that is why parents are standing up for parental rights. Even worse, some "educators" and "allies" are hiding such "education" from the parents, like groomers might do.

I think that is what gets some conservatives upset.

But like I said, you are free to your opinion, I just think you are twisting some definitions to include things they should not.

[NATI BENGALS]

(06-22-2024, 07:32 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: It was poorly worded and trying to be sly, a failure.

My overall point was meant to be that there is so much other stuff on walls in school that I see little harm in having the ten commandments hung on the wall. I do not believe it should be mandatory, but do not think there is harm in them being posted.

It is a very popular book, and I would not oppose reasonable passages being hung on the wall from other wildly popular books, like The Hobbit, Dune, The Alchemist, The Little Prince, etc...

Maybe I view the Bible too much as a piece of literature and think people should be aware of what is in it, even if they do not believe and/or follow it?

Just my take...

I’d be fine with that. A teacher can hang it in their classroom if they want to and it has some relevancy to the course they teach.

It’s the whole making it a law thing that goes against our founders views of religious freedom that gives me problems with this Louisiana stuff.

[*pally*]

(06-22-2024, 08:05 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: That is your opinion, but as we see on the world stage, not everyone agrees with your belief of sexuality and gender dysphoria being taught/supported in a school setting.

Some might even suggest social, sexual, and emotional learning are being exploited and forced on children in a perverted manner by the left, and that is why parents are standing up for parental rights. Even worse, some "educators" and "allies" are hiding such "education" from the parents, like groomers might do.

I think that is what gets some conservatives upset.

But like I said, you are free to your opinion, I just think you are twisting some definitions to include things they should not.

You just proved the point that social and emotional learning is not supported by conservatives.

Respecting others is not conditional on their political or social beliefs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-22-2024, 10:18 AM)pally Wrote: You just proved the point that social and emotional learning is not supported by conservatives.  

Respecting others is not conditional on their political or social beliefs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wrong again.

[HarleyDog]

(06-22-2024, 10:18 AM)pally Wrote: You just proved the point that social and emotional learning is not supported by conservatives.  

Respecting others is not conditional on their political or social beliefs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How did he prove that? Sometimes you walkout onto the thinnest of limbs. We get that you hate conservatives, and it’s ok that you do. But we don’t really need reminded every post.

[*Nately120*]

It'll be interesting to see if private schools are worried they will lose their selling point if people are willing accept that the government will legally mandate Christianity into public schools and colleges. From what I can tell their support of the gop came via policies that had taxpayers foot the bill for private schools and this does the opposite.

This isn't a money maker like teachers carrying guns.

[HarleyDog]

(06-22-2024, 12:10 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It'll be interesting to see if private schools are worried they will lose their selling point if people are willing accept that the government will legally mandate Christianity into public schools and colleges. From what I can tell their support of the gop came via policies that had taxpayers foot the bill for private schools and this does the opposite.

This isn't a money maker like teachers carrying guns.

I think I made my point clear in previous posts. But what's the difference between what you're saying and the government trying to force CRT and sexual identity onto our youth? Why is one acceptable and the other not? The bottom line is, that the goal of removing religion from schools was to prevent indoctrination and forcing a belief system. Isn't what I mentioned doing the same thing?

[*Nately120*]

(06-22-2024, 01:04 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I think I made my point clear in previous posts. But what's the difference between what you're saying and the government trying to force CRT and sexual identity onto our youth? Why is one acceptable and the other not? The bottom line is, that the goal of removing religion from schools was to prevent indoctrination and forcing a belief system. Isn't what I mentioned doing the same thing?

I just don't see how CRT is the direct opposite of Christianity.  That smacks of the modern GOP commodotizing Christianity and selling it to people with infomercial style "to cure all that ails you" aplomb. 

But again, I know how it feels to be forced to pray and recite and at least pretend you believe.  It wasn't awful, but it, combined with smarmy politicians figuring I simply had to follow their side because "Jesus" is what burned me out on organized religion.  Of course I went to college so that shift will be blamed on college professors forcing me to be a socialist and undoing sister Mary forcing me to be conservative.  I'm just a brain ready to be washed, I guess. 

Conservatives talk about how the heavy hand of the government wrecks everything but think stuff like this will successfully sell the brand of christianity to people?  Seems more like pandering to people way past their school years who think this is just what the country needs. 

And I know people who share the notion that public schools are forcing agendas on kids...they send their kids to private schools or home school them.  The extra work and sacrifice required for that should benefit them and their kids as well, or so I've been told.