MAGA

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-13-2019, 01:24 AM)Dill Wrote: Rockwell image of Marshals forcing integration. Not quite a Rorschach blot, was it? Posted on a thread themed by the question, "when do Trump supporters think America was great?"  Tacked on to a point by Benton, that drug use and violence are about the same as ever. Framed by the words "Some things have gotten better" (in contrast to the events represented in the picture), and the words "Or worse--depending on one's perspective." Both statements a reference to the present, to the legacy of integration.

You read into that a "thinly disguised attempt to paint those who don't embrace every change as bad people"?  Me engaging in behavior I "decry in others"?  A dog whistle?

Yeah.  It was clear that wasn't the only issue you were referencing, nor that I was responding to.  Unless you're attempting to paint me as a person opposed to integration.  But you'd never do that, would you?!?! 

You're not nearly as clever as you think you are.

Quote:I still don't know what "Fred-twisting" behavior is.  I cannot recall a single post by Fred as opaque and obfuscatory as yours in this thread.

ORLY?  Please point out a post of mine in this thread that is either and we'll have a starting point for a debate.  

Quote:Now reference to an undefined, mysterious "practice" of mine, which involves "inferring in others" and is "advocated" on another thread?  What??

You've never played Tuber Simulator?!

Quote:And still talking about unspecified "racist statements" made somewhere. Dino's? Mine? You'll continue throw ther term "racist" around with neither definition nor examples, but you "won't discuss it with a person engaging in racist behavior and then expecting to discuss racist behavior in others."
That is a standard?? 

Except examples have been given, you actually referenced them yourself.  Also, don't you mean "reverse racism?"  It must cause you actual physical pain to be this willfully obtuse.

Quote:Define your terms, provide examples, offer proof of claims--that is what I "advocate" here and on every thread.

I actually don't need to provide anything, you did it for me, and then claimed no examples existed.  Run out of lithium?

Quote:Connect your points to the thread, or this is just name calling and I am not interested in providing a foil for that.

Oh no, dear Dill.   I'm absolutely not name calling.  Although I can see the appeal for you to paint it as such, I am merely calling you out using specific examples.  You then attempt to turn the conversation away to something it never ways and then claim faux outrage when I don't play along.  I am most sorry to announce that your game has been well and thoroughly seen through.  Please note (and I do mean please, I humbly beg) that I have been unfailingly polite in pointing out your foibles.  I do know you delight in being perceived as persecuted and I do strive to stay civil.  I will not, however, fail to point out hypocrisy and racism in those who point out the speck in their neighbor's eye while ignoring the plank in their own.

Please do enjoy your weekend. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-11-2019, 04:43 PM)Dill Wrote:

Is this depiction of a white family involving obvious stereotypes racist?   Surely not.

Is it reverse racist??????????????????????

[jj22]

Eating Fried chicken is a black stereotype.

Interesting responses tho as I never heard the specifics as to it being the economy or coal industry they were trying to get America back to.

[*bfine32*]

(07-13-2019, 02:14 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Is this depiction of a white family involving obvious stereotypes racist?   Surely not.

Is it reverse racist??????????????????????

(07-15-2019, 10:25 AM)jj22 Wrote: Eating Fried chicken is a black stereotype.

Interesting responses tho as I never heard the specifics as to it being the economy or coal industry they were trying to get America back to.

What is also interesting is that you didn't answer the question posed by SSF in regards to the meme; however, I will provide mine:

It is not racist; as I understand the definition. Of course I realize there are numerous interpretations of the ideology. I find it to be stereotyping white folks as those that serve fast food, wear wife beaters, give their children beer, smoke, expose cleavage, and wear ball caps (aka poor white trash).

But for others to answer the question for themselves change the color of the skin and the associated stereotypes; then ask yourself would it be racist.  

[jj22]

I've never heard eating fried chicken being a white stereotype so I wasn't sure what was being referenced.

The meme looks like a difference in class to me.

But both look happy unlike some of the hurtful minority stereotypes (Michelle Obama the monkey was a favorite one of Republicans).

Google some black and minority stereotypes memes to see how different it is then memes about class difference.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-11-2019, 06:39 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Doesn't it refer to when manufacturing jobs weren't outsourced and when America was more energy independent?

(07-12-2019, 02:10 AM)Benton Wrote: That's the general idea.

Also, there's a focus on some issues today (violence, alcohol abuse, sexual assaults, drug abuse, etc) that weren't really discussed back then. That leads to a misonception that suddenly were more violent, more addicted, more abusive. Truth is, proportionally, were about the same. 

Pretty much my thoughts as well.
Manufacturing comes back and decent paying jobs are back for people (including removing many of the restrictions that have been placed on mining for coal and other natural resources).
Make the economy stronger and grow it, and become less reliant on China or make the deals more balanced.
Remove and keep illegal immigrants out.

The only people that make this about racism are the ones that are playing political games and keeping everyone divided. Every POTUS has a group of extremists that support them and like every POTUS before, Trump sometimes goes against their wishes, because they cater to Americans not specialist groups. They just support him that's all. When it comes to the violence, neither side owns a monopoly.

[*bfine32*]

(07-15-2019, 05:05 PM)jj22 Wrote: I've never heard eating fried chicken being a white stereotype so I wasn't sure what was being referenced.

The meme looks like a difference in class to me.

But both look happy unlike some of the hurtful minority stereotypes (Michelle Obama the monkey was a favorite one of Republicans).

Google some black and minority stereotypes memes to see how different it is then memes about class difference.

So as long as the people in the meme look happy it's not racist. That's a new one

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-15-2019, 06:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So as long as the people in the meme look happy it's not racist. That's a new one

That's a new one on me as well.  Another question would be if this altered picture was about another ethnic group would they use the same imagery and symbolism?  If the imagery and symbolism is associated with white people in a negative way then yes, the image is racist. 

[*jason*]

(07-15-2019, 02:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What is also interesting is that you didn't answer the question posed by SSF in regards to the meme; however, I will provide mine:

It is not racist; as I understand the definition. Of course I realize there are numerous interpretations of the ideology. I find it to be stereotyping white folks as those that serve fast food, wear wife beaters, give their children beer, smoke, expose cleavage, and wear ball caps (aka poor white trash).

But for others to answer the question for themselves change the color of the skin and the associated stereotypes; then ask yourself would it be racist.  

Is the term "white trash" racist? Does it imply that everyone who isn't white is trash, but there is a certain segment of white people who are on that level?

[*bfine32*]

(07-15-2019, 06:35 PM)jason Wrote: Is the term "white trash" racist? Does it imply that everyone who isn't white is trash, but there is a certain segment of white people who are on that level?

From what I understand it started by during the time of Slavery when whites were the only ones that could attain wealth. So I'm sure when it was coined it was not considered racist, merely "you're not as good". Folks have just continued/adapted it as a term of degradation.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-15-2019, 06:35 PM)jason Wrote: Is the term "white trash" racist? Does it imply that everyone who isn't white is trash, but there is a certain segment of white people who are on that level?

A better comparison would be the term "hillbilly".  Everyone knows what you're referring to when you use that term and it's not a positive.  Quite honestly any term used to denigrate someone based on their ethnicity is racist.  There are plenty of country specific slurs for Caucasians that are racist, even though they don't apply to Caucasians as a whole.

[BakertheBeast]

[jj22]

(07-15-2019, 06:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So as long as the people in the meme look happy it's not racist. That's a new one

You guys are willingly missing the point.

Blacks get stereotyped no matter what the class. From the highest of the classes (Obama's) to the poorest of the poor. No black person is immune to it. Look at memes of black stereotypes and you'll see the difference.

White people claiming the poor white people are being stereotyped shows that the race as a whole isn't lumped together like true stereotypes which means it isn't a real stereotype and they still have no idea how bad stereotypes really are since most are immune to it.

You guys are fighting for the characterization of poor white people and that is cool, but the fact you can be happy you aren't lumped in with them is an experience we as minorities don't get.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-16-2019, 10:02 AM)jj22 Wrote: You guys are willingly missing the point.

Blacks get stereotyped no matter what the class. From the highest of the classes (Obama's) to the poorest of the poor. No black person is immune to it. Look at memes of black stereotypes and you'll see the difference.

White people claiming the poor white people are being stereotyped shows that the race as a whole isn't lumped together like true stereotypes which means it isn't a real stereotype and they still have no idea how bad stereotypes really are since most are immune to it.

You guys are fighting for the characterization of poor white people and that is cool, but the fact you can be happy you aren't lumped in with them is an experience we as minorities don't get.

You're right, middle to upper class white people are never stereotyped.




We could all do ourselves a huge favor it would could agree that racism, against anyone, is bad and worthy of equal contempt.

[jj22]

And what might those be?

What animal do they claim you guys are?

Who are the thugs?

Who are the drug dealers and rapists?

Who gets called out for the broken homes and bad fathers?

What's yalls favorite fruit?

What do they call white women who are sassy?

What do they call you guys when your hair is kinky?

What's the biggest feature of all white peoples body? (not that one, that's not a bad stereotype!).

Who are the welfare queens?

I'm willing to listen.

Oh are you talking about the "stereotype" in that pic of someone speaking proper, well dressed, and educated? Lordy, you couldn't handle our stereotypes if that insults you. I'll trade you stereotypes if I could. You can be the nappy headed monkey mammy with the big nose who eats watermelons with no utensils and live off of the government cause they don't want to work being too busy selling drugs and raping folks while raising thugs in homes with no fathers because they are in jail.

I'll take the educated, well dressed, well spoken stereotype anyday.

[*bfine32*]

(07-16-2019, 10:02 AM)jj22 Wrote: You guys are willingly missing the point.

Blacks get stereotyped no matter what the class. From the highest of the classes (Obama's) to the poorest of the poor. No black person is immune to it. Look at memes of black stereotypes and you'll see the difference.

White people claiming the poor white people are being stereotyped shows that the race as a whole isn't lumped together like true stereotypes which means it isn't a real stereotype and they still have no idea how bad stereotypes really are since most are immune to it.

You guys are fighting for the characterization of poor white people and that is cool, but the fact you can be happy you aren't lumped in with them is an experience we as minorities don't get.

But as long as they look happy it's ok

[Belsnickel]

(07-15-2019, 08:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A better comparison would be the term "hillbilly".  Everyone knows what you're referring to when you use that term and it's not a positive.  Quite honestly any term used to denigrate someone based on their ethnicity is racist.  There are plenty of country specific slurs for Caucasians that are racist, even though they don't apply to Caucasians as a whole.

I proudly call myself a hillbilly. But that's just me.

[*bfine32*]

(07-16-2019, 12:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I proudly call myself a hillbilly. But that's just me.

It's really no different than a black person proudly calling themselves something a white person cannot

[Belsnickel]

(07-16-2019, 12:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's really no different than a black person proudly calling themselves something a white person cannot

Is it? I've never seen hillbilly as a racial thing. I know some black hillbillies around my area and they will tell you that's what they are.

[Dill]

(07-13-2019, 02:06 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Quote:I still don't know what "Fred-twisting" behavior is.  I cannot recall a single post by Fred as opaque and obfuscatory as yours in this thread.
ORLY?  Please point out a post of mine in this thread that is either and we'll have a starting point for a debate. 

Sure. Start with this response to my question about the mysterious "practice" you referenced in your post, #13.

(07-13-2019, 02:06 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Quote:Now reference to an undefined, mysterious "practice" of mine, which involves "inferring in others" and is "advocated" on another thread?  What??
You've never played Tuber Simulator?!

You claimed I "advocated" some "practice" you call "infering" (perhaps you do not know what an "inference" is?) and there was your chance to explain what you were talking about, citing a post, and to show whatever "script" you claim to have flipped.

So what did you do with that chance?  This:

(07-13-2019, 02:06 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Oh no, dear Dill.   I'm absolutely not name calling.  Although I can see the appeal for you to paint it as such, I am merely calling you out using specific examples.  You then attempt to turn the conversation away to something it never ways and then claim faux outrage when I don't play along.  I am most sorry to announce that your game has been well and thoroughly seen through.  Please note (and I do mean please, I humbly beg) that I have been unfailingly polite in pointing out your foibles.  I do know you delight in being perceived as persecuted and I do strive to stay civil.  I will not, however, fail to point out hypocrisy and racism in those who point out the speck in their neighbor's eye while ignoring the plank in their own.

As usual, I am trying to turn the conversation towards something definable and measurable. And you have "seen through" the attempt. That is why you are talking about "my game" and "moral courage" and your politeness rather than citing evidence (as opposed to just claiming it exists somewhere) and fitting it to your definition. Won't put up and won't shut up.

A guy who says he won't engage with someone making "racist" statements, but can't seem to explain, exemplify or otherwise establish what he is calling "racism," doesn't get to hang "faux outrage" on others, especially when doing that instead of citing examples of said racism in other's texts and explaining why they fit the definition.

If you can't/won't do that then yes, you are just name calling and then attributing to others your own outrage.  And being obfuscatory.

Stop substituting chatter about others' motives and morality, perceptions of persecution and lack of courage--in short a tally of personal "impressions"--for arguments based upon evidence.

Until you do that, the rest is just air, and not worth any more time.