MJT: alleged Pentagon leaker is ‘white, male, Christian, and antiwar’

[kalibengal]

(04-16-2023, 10:00 PM)samhain Wrote: I'm not saying MTG should be hanged as a traitor, but MTG should be hanged as a traitor.  

It baffles me to see a party that's home to several cold-blooded political operators unable to nudge her out of power.  She's a liability and a complete ******* to boot.

a losing strategy in long run....shes going to further seperate the GOP and im good with that. 
Calling Dems pedos on 60 minutes and now this ? Her supporters must be true hillbillys for her to do this with no remorse.   

[XenoMorph]

(04-18-2023, 10:40 AM)kalibengal Wrote: a losing strategy in long run....shes going to further seperate the GOP and im good with that. 
Calling Dems pedos on 60 minutes and now this ? Her supporters must be true hillbillys for her to do this with no remorse.   

well they are grooming kids... 

its a pretty accurate statement

[GMDino]

(04-18-2023, 10:47 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: well they are grooming kids... 

its a pretty accurate statement

I do find the belief that "the left" or liberals are grooming kids odd.  Virtually every story about a child molester or someone caught with child porn is shown to be a member of the clergy, a police officer, a republican (office holder or support person).

I still haven't seen the drag queen charged.  Maybe there are a few?  But not at the number of the "party of family values".

But that message from the right gets repeated over and over...with no proof.

[BigPapaKain]

(04-18-2023, 10:50 AM)GMDino Wrote: I do find the belief that "the left" or liberals are grooming kids odd.  Virtually every story about a child molester or someone caught with child porn is shown to be a member of the clergy, a police officer, a republican (office holder or support person).

I still haven't seen the drag queen charged.  Maybe there are a few?  But not at the number of the "party of family values".

But that message from the right gets repeated over and over...with no proof.

Hey check it out - you've perfectly articulated their political strategy. And the rubes go wild for that shit.

[GMDino]

For example:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/stop-the-steal-organizer-ali-alexander-apologizes-after-being-accused-of-asking-teen-boys-for-sexual-pics

Quote:A key figure in the pro-Trump “Stop the Steal” campaign has apologized after being accused of asking teenage boys for sexual pictures.


Ali Alexander has become one of the most ubiquitous figures in the MAGA movement. Trump himself reportedly requested that Alexander speak at his rally before the riot, with his appearance only quashed by a last-minute intervention from Trump’s aides. But this week, Alexander stands at the center of a scandal that raises questions about how powerful men in the far-right treat their younger acolytes.


“This is too gay,” Alexander said in a statement issued Friday night that addressed the allegations in broad terms.
Alexander, who has described himself as bisexual in the past, added that he was “battling with same-sex attraction.”

The budding online scandal has also roiled the pro-Trump and white supremacist “America First” movement, just months after it reached new levels of notoriety after its leader, Nick Fuentes, dined with Donald Trump and rapper Kanye West at Mar-a-Lago. Now Fuentes is facing backlash from his own supporters over whether he ignored warnings that Alexander, his friend and ally, was allegedly soliciting nude pictures from young men within Fuentes’s movement.

On Friday night, Alexander—who was questioned by the House Jan. 6 Committee about his role organizing a canceled rally dubbed the “Wild Protest” outside the Capitol, which drew crowds to the building right before the riot began—issued a statement Friday offering a general apology.


“I apologize for any inappropriate messages sent over the years,” Alexander wrote, adding later, “When I’ve flirted or others have flirted with me, I’ve flexed my credentials or dropped corny pick up lines. Other times, I’ve been careless and should’ve qualified those coming up to me’s (sic) identities during flirtatious banter at the start.”


Alexander didn’t respond to requests for comment from The Daily Beast. In his statement, he claimed he had also been targeted by false accusations and edited screenshots of his messages, but declined opportunities to point out which accusers or screenshots aren’t legitimate.

Oh! And...

[KillerGoose]

(04-18-2023, 10:40 AM)kalibengal Wrote: a losing strategy in long run....shes going to further seperate the GOP and im good with that. 
Calling Dems pedos on 60 minutes and now this ? Her supporters must be true hillbillys for her to do this with no remorse.   

There is a politician, Jeff Jackson, who has a large social media presence. He is particularly big on TikTok. He does these little "fireside chats" that I find very interesting and informative. One of the topics he discussed was "fake outrage" from politicians. He didn't name any names, but said that most of the angry and outraged voices you here in Congress are all 100% an act and they are normally calm, articulated and rational individuals. He cited how these people would act ridiculous in sessions open to cameras and provide wild soundbites but behind closed doors and when he met them personally, they were fantastic people. 

He ended by saying that if you hear a politician saying something that makes you go "Oh my god, how do they believe this?" that you should change your thought to "Do they really believe this?" because they likely don't. They are just saying it to create outrage and anger, which makes people pay more attention to them. I think the whole "Dems Pedo/Repubs Pedo" or anything else wild is likely just that. 

[*Nately120*]

(04-18-2023, 10:50 AM)GMDino Wrote: I do find the belief that "the left" or liberals are grooming kids odd.  Virtually every story about a child molester or someone caught with child porn is shown to be a member of the clergy, a police officer, a republican (office holder or support person).

It reminds me of the dudes on To Catch a Predator who started off their chats with the decoys by telling them that the internet is too dangerous for a teen girl and they should be wary of perverts in the chatrooms...only talk to me....I'm ok.

What is amusingly frightening is how the GOP, one of our 2 major political parties, has adopted the reckless strategy I got used to seeing when my cousin married an unmedicated woman with borderline personality disorder.  Any time she had an issue with him or his friends or if she had a problem she'd threaten to tell people you were a pedophile.  What an extreme political strategy.  My wife was watching a school board meeting for the local school and the wife of one of the candidates spent most of the time loudly talking over students who disagreed with his policy, and then yelling about how her husband's opponent was a pedophile.  And when someone asked her to please be quiet she said "I'm sorry, I just don't like pedophiles."

Crying pedophile is opening pandora's box.  There is nothing worse you can accuse someone of, there is no "better" insult you can hurl at someone, and there is nowhere to go from here.  I feel like we've reached the end game.  

It's also interesting that MTG is pulling the ultimate #MeToo style weaponization by blanketly falsely accusing people of sexual crimes and then getting away with it because she's a woman.  Apparently women lying about people being sex offenders is not only OK by conservative standards, but it's the go-to part of the playbook.

For a group of people who think the DOJ is going to come after them because Trump got indicted, seeing them dismiss the issues that could arise by allowing people to be considered sex offenders with no evidence is baffling.

[Dill]

(04-18-2023, 12:23 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Your lies will not change the fact, there was no staged coup. Pelosi was asked to add security for January 6 days prior by Trump. She denied the request. If you can't see a political witch hunt perpetrated by the left Jan. 6 committee, then no sense in having further discussions. If legit, why not ask Jordon or other Republicans to join the committee versus 2 Trump hating Republicans? How many Democrats were on the Jan. 6 committee versus number of Republicans? The committee had a biased agenda with one thing in mind, get Trump so he never runs again.

If Trump is so easy to beat, why wouldn't the Democrats hope he makes it as the GOP nominee. They try to damage the man, more so than any politician I have seen in my lifetime. Yet, to the dismay of Democrats, he is gaining support as the country sees all the partisan attacks.

This is why I identify Fox, not Trump, as the central problem in U.S. politics at the moment.


Notice that your answer ignores 1) the seven slates of false electors presented to Pence, 2) the pressure on Pence, especially from Trump, to illegally acknowledge the false electors and stop the legal count of electors, and 3) the crowd called by Trump ON THE BASIS OF A LIE to march on the Capitol and pressure Pence to "do the right thing"--i.e., perform an illegal act in hopes of throwing the election to a House vote. That is a coordinated attempt to prevent a duly elected president from taking office and keeping the defeated Trump in power. It involved the RNC in seven states and Trump's own staff, plus Oath Keepers and Proud Boys acting as Trump's personal militia. Political Scientists call that an "autogolpe"--a "self coup" by a leader trying to stay in power after being voted out.

Trump, his staff, and the RNC in seven states ACTUALLY DID THESE THINGS. The visual and documentary evidence is public. Even FOX and Congressional GOP leadership cannot contest this. Pence, Trump's VP, agrees this happened.  Is he out to get Trump too?  Whether Pelosi nixed more security days before or whether Jordan* was on a committee changes NOTHING about these facts. That Republicans refused to cooperate with the committee, protecting their leader and obfuscating the proceedings, does not make the committee "biased."  Even if it were biased, that would not change what we all saw Trump do and heard him say. It would not make the coup a "lie." 

So the FOX/GOP tactic from the get go was to replace the factual record with an "alternative" one, formed of constant, daily "bias buzz" about the committee and Pelosi/Schumer whattabouts, and Trump's "peaceful" intentions, encouraging their voters to self-censor their own news (i.e., not watch), ignoring what Trump did and what his own staff and legal team had to say about his actions and state of mind. (Remember, Fox goes to trial today for perpetuating Trump's BIG LIE while knowing it WAS a lie.) They didn't want their viewer voters to hear Barr say he told Trump explicitly there was no evidence of election fraud or to hear Trump's own staff describing him watching the riot while doing nothing--for hours. 

And it is amazing that FOX has been so successful in inducing MILLIONS to deny the evidence of their own eyes and ears--insurrectionists breaching the Capitol shouting "Hang Mike Pence"--while refusing to follow the case against Trump, simply on their leaders' say so. They are rendered unable to ask simple, critical, questions like--how could Dems have created their "biased" committee-to-just-get-Trump, if Trump had not convinced millions of a BIG LIE, brought thousands to the Capitol on the basis of that lie, and then sicced them on Congress to pressure Pence to break the law--according to a plan involving lists of fake electors from teams of Republicans in seven states to be presented Pence when the crowd arrived? All of which ended in a massive riot INSIDE THE CAPITOL where one of his followers was shot to death as police were bear sprayed and beaten with Trump flags.   

*It's pretty clear why Jordan should not be on a committee investigating the coup--he was a supporter, someone to be investigated, and expected to sabotage the committee's every move. I.e., he was someone who could not be counted on to act in good faith. 

[*Nately120*]

What's the point of even debating anymore? Let's all just cut to the chase, call each other kiddie diddlers and move on.

I'll start....

GOP - Everyone is a pedo except me. Also, your teen daughter ran that relay pretty fast...better let me look at her vagina to make sure everything is on the level. Remember, if you disagree with me doing this you are a liberal and that makes you a pedo, so you're gonna wanna say yes.

[*pally*]

(04-18-2023, 10:47 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: well they are grooming kids... 

its a pretty accurate statement

Exactly HOW are kids being groomed?

It is NOT grooming to teach children to respect others
It is NOT grooming to provide children with age-appropriate sex education
It is NOT grooming to discuss same-sex couples in the same manner that heterosexual couples are
It is NOT grooming for a man dressed in drag to read an age-appropriate story to a child 
It is NOT grooming for a child to see a family-friendly drag show
It is NOT grooming for a child to read a book that includes homosexuality


-homosexuality does not equal pedophilia.  Pedophilia exists across the sexual spectrum
-statistically speaking a child is more likely to be abused by a family member, a close family friend or neighbor, or a church pastor. leader than they are by a teacher,  performer, or stranger
-Books do not cause homosexuality, bisexuality, or transgenderism
-Talking about homosexuality, bisexuality, or transgenderism does not cause a child to become one
-seeing a man in drag does not sexualize a child.  Child "beauty pageants" sexualize children.  Skimpy outfits on female cheerleaders while they peform with booty shakes and hip/chest thrusts sexualize children.  Skimpy clothes on female athletes sexualize them

[Dill]

(04-18-2023, 11:32 AM)Nately120 Wrote: What's the point of even debating anymore?  Let's all just cut to the chase, call each other kiddie diddlers and move on.

LOL no. I'm not going to do it because they do it.

I'm not sure "debate" is always the right word. 

On this thread it's more about battling disinformation--the "Fox effect."

In part by explaining how Fox works, how they normalize self-censorship and refusal of debate to preclude debate which undermines their "alternative" narratives.

And the logic too--the Jan.6 committee is "biased" because Repubs wouldn't participate; and if it was biased, then it is a "lie"
that Trump lied to stay in power, attempted to coerce Pence into denying legitimate electors, organized a mob to pressure him, and
that that was illegal, destructive, and anti-democratic, etc. 

I think saying this out loud does make it harder for the effect to work. E.g., harder to claim "it's people who refer to the factual record and law who can't be reasoned with," when that tactic is foregrounded. Harder to claim it's just "Trump hate" behind the effort to hold Trump accountable for a coup attempt in which people died and the business of the country was disrupted.

[Dill]

(04-18-2023, 10:50 AM)GMDino Wrote: But that message from the right gets repeated over and over...with no proof.

No need.

The message BECOMES true if repeated often enough long enough. 

The point of sufficient saturation is reached when the "truth" is so obvious that you are

justified in ignoring or refusing to debate people who demand proof of what everybody "knows."

Not YOUR job to do their research FOR them, right? 

They need to expand their news sources beyond CNN!

[Dill]

(04-18-2023, 11:25 AM)Nately120 Wrote: What is amusingly frightening is how the GOP, one of our 2 major political parties, has adopted the reckless strategy I got used to seeing when my cousin married an unmedicated woman with borderline personality disorder.  Any time she had an issue with him or his friends or if she had a problem she'd threaten to tell people you were a pedophile.  What an extreme political strategy.  My wife was watching a school board meeting for the local school and the wife of one of the candidates spent most of the time loudly talking over students who disagreed with his policy, and then yelling about how her husband's opponent was a pedophile.  And when someone asked her to please be quiet she said "I'm sorry, I just don't like pedophiles."

By god, I don't like them either. 

Why is everyone on this thread defending them?!?


LOL That's a great story, and illustrative of how public debates are sabotaged nowadays.

[*Nately120*]

(04-18-2023, 12:22 PM)Dill Wrote: By god, I don't like them either. 

Why is everyone on this thread defending them?!?


LOL That's a great story, and illustrative of how public debates are sabotaged nowadays.

It's never enough, though.  There are cases where school boards have gone all GOP to fight CRT or grooming, but are still being accused of teaching CRT or grooming because it turns out when you let people believe whatever they want, they don't always stop believing something just because their people get elected.

The odds of this woman and people who think like her suddenly believing that the public school system is no longer an organization of sex abusers because the school board is possibly conservative enough for them, is slim.  Just because a school has a conservative school board doesn't mean they aren't being woke groomers the second you turn your back on them.

[CJD]

(04-18-2023, 10:50 AM)GMDino Wrote: I do find the belief that "the left" or liberals are grooming kids odd.  Virtually every story about a child molester or someone caught with child porn is shown to be a member of the clergy, a police officer, a republican (office holder or support person).

I still haven't seen the drag queen charged.  Maybe there are a few?  But not at the number of the "party of family values".

But that message from the right gets repeated over and over...with no proof.

To people on the right, acknowledging the existence of non cishet people and implicitly approving of their lifestyle (by being accepting of them) is grooming children to be gay/bi/trans because, to the right, the only thing that is maintaining their beliefs is ignorance to other beliefs.

It's kind of like how they've convinced themselves that college is a brain washing facility because people who are conservative as children (read: their parents were conservative) go off to college and come back more open minded to other races, ethnicities, sexualities and lifestyles.

The parent thinks "My child used to share my beliefs, but the went off to college and no longer shares my beliefs...They must have been brain washed!!!"

In both of these cases, no grooming or brain washing has occurred (at least not the way the conservative parent thinks it has). Just exposure. Young people are a product of what they see and hear around them. If all they've ever heard their entire life is religious gospel and *insert whatever conservative belief or teaching you'd like here*, then that is likely their belief structure (unless they go through a rebellious phase). But once that person is out from under their conservative parents' control and gets to actually meet gay people, black people, trans people and they realize that...they're just people, they end up straying from their conservative parents' teachings.

And conservative parents hate that shit.

[BigPapaKain]

I love reading facts grounded in reality and the rebuttals of "nuh uh".

Some folks would starve themselves to death if Fox News said food makes you gay.

Some of those folks are on these boards.

[samhain]

(04-18-2023, 10:47 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: well they are grooming kids... 

its a pretty accurate statement

Well, if you heard that somewhere, I guess I'll take your word for it.  

[samhain]

(04-18-2023, 12:59 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: To people on the right, acknowledging the existence of non cishet people and implicitly approving of their lifestyle (by being accepting of them) is grooming children to be gay/bi/trans because, to the right, the only thing that is maintaining their beliefs is ignorance to other beliefs.

It's kind of like how they've convinced themselves that college is a brain washing facility because people who are conservative as children (read: their parents were conservative) go off to college and come back more open minded to other races, ethnicities, sexualities and lifestyles.

The parent thinks "My child used to share my beliefs, but the went off to college and no longer shares my beliefs...They must have been brain washed!!!"

In both of these cases, no grooming or brain washing has occurred (at least not the way the conservative parent thinks it has). Just exposure. Young people are a product of what they see and hear around them. If all they've ever heard their entire life is religious gospel and *insert whatever conservative belief or teaching you'd like here*, then that is likely their belief structure (unless they go through a rebellious phase). But once that person is out from under their conservative parents' control and gets to actually meet gay people, black people, trans people and they realize that...they're just people, they end up straying from their conservative parents' teachings.

And conservative parents hate that shit.

As a father to a young kid, it's definitely terrifying to think of the things that await them in the world.  Social media alone, can communicate things to kids, from the innocent to the stupid to the just plain evil, at any time and place.  There's also some benefit to the connectivity, but it requires caution.  Drugs are scarier.  Less kids are doing them, but more are dying from them, and the availability is high.  Then there's plain old existential dread stemming from an economy in decline and a labor market about to get upended by AI.  

A lot of parents see kids dealing with issues that they never imagined existing when they were young.  Homosexuality was still extremely taboo in the 80's and 90's.  People we very apprehensive about being open about it, and violence was a real possibility for any of them.  Now it's a bit different, and it got different a lot faster than 1 think many people expected.  

I never viewed drag shows as a huge deal.  They seemed somewhat accepted even before actual, straight-up homosexuality was.  Not a lot of people had major problems with them, because if they did they were pretty easy to avoid.  I've just never seen it as a harmful part of society.  Hell, there were major sitcoms and films featuring the biggest actors on the planet in drag, and nobody really batted an eye, even in the 1970's.  

What I just can't get over is that one of the undoubtedly largest conservative organzations in this nation, the Catholic Church, has literally either perpetrated or covered up thousands of instances of child abuse.  Not just grooming, but actual child rape.  Some cases in the local diocese (Covington) were horrifying by any standard that you could possibly come up with.  It was life ruining stuff for these kids when they became adults, and priests got away with it A LOT.  

Funny thing is, I don't recall the right ever getting upset about priests doing all manner of things to kids.  I don't recall Q or his mentally-challenged army of dimwits coming to the rescue for these actual victims, some of which I literally knew in real life.  I don't recall affluent right-wing Catholic parents pulling their kids out of school or holding huge, frothing boycotts at local diocese offices.  I mean, it's all there in the open now.  Most local dioceses have done full reports, and the sheer numbers are probably even worse than most think.  Still, from our kid-avenging heroes, silence.  

I wonder why.  Definitely couldn't be because Catholics are a huge voter base for the right, could it?  Maybe they need to make up pretend child molestors to account for the actual ones they enabled and overlooked for generations.  I have no idea, but it makes no sense, and for that reason the right has zero credibility on the topic.

[CJD]

(04-18-2023, 06:39 PM)samhain Wrote: As a father to a young kid, it's definitely terrifying to think of the things that await them in the world.  Social media alone, can communicate things to kids, from the innocent to the stupid to the just plain evil, at any time and place.  There's also some benefit to the connectivity, but it requires caution.  Drugs are scarier.  Less kids are doing them, but more are dying from them, and the availability is high.  Then there's plain old existential dread stemming from an economy in decline and a labor market about to get upended by AI.  

A lot of parents see kids dealing with issues that they never imagined existing when they were young.  Homosexuality was still extremely taboo in the 80's and 90's.  People we very apprehensive about being open about it, and violence was a real possibility for any of them.  Now it's a bit different, and it got different a lot faster than a think many people expected.  

I never viewed drag shows as a huge deal.  They seemed somewhat accepted even before actual, straight-up homosexuality was.  Not a lot of people had major problems with them, because if they did they were pretty easy to avoid.  I've just never seen it as a harmful part of society.  Hell, there were major sitcoms and films featuring the biggest actors on the planet in drag, and nobody really batted an eye, even in the 1970's.  

What I just can't get over is that one of the undoubtedly largest conservative organzations in this nation, the Catholic Church, has literally either perpetrated or covered up thousands of instances of child abuse.  Not just grooming, but actual child rape.  Some cases in the local diocese (Covington) were horrifying by any standard that you could possibly come up with.  It was life ruining stuff for these kids when they became adults, and priests got away with it A LOT.  

Funny thing is, I don't recall the right ever getting upset about priests doing all manner of things to kids.  I don't recall Q or his mentally-challenged army of dimwits coming to the rescue for these actual victims, some of which I literally knew in real life.  I don't recall affluent right-wing Catholic parents pulling their kids out of school or holding huge, frothing boycotts at local diocese offices.  I mean, it's all there in the open now.  Most local dioceses have done full reports, and the sheer numbers are probably even worse than most think.  Still, from our kid-avenging heroes, silence.  

I wonder why.  Definitely couldn't be because Catholics are a huge voter base for the right, could it?  Maybe they need to make up pretend child molestors to account for the actual ones they enabled and overlooked for generations.  I have no idea, but it makes no sense, and for that reason the right has zero credibility on the topic.

I'm right there with you about how scary the world is for children. I have a 3 year old and a 9 month old and I often think about all the things that they could do not realizing the danger of it. There was recently a story about a 13 year old in Ohio who died because they did the "Benadryl challenge" where you just take a ton of Benadryl to get hallucinations. It's scary stuff. And a lot of that is facilitated by social media. 

When me and my wife were younger, and there were a bunch of scandals about children sharing nude pics of each other and being put on sex offender lists for life even though they were just children, we vowed that our children would not have phones with cameras on them until they were 18.

And then they stopped making phones without cameras on them haha.

Being a parent is about being aware and informed about what your children are being exposed to and making educated decisions on what is and is not safe. Unfortunately, that responsibility has been corrupted by too many people who just use it to fear monger and push people into believing things that aren't true all in the direction of "protecting the children." It's a noble endeavor, but is too easily hijacked for political gain.

It's going to be an every day activity keeping up with my kids once they're in school, making sure they have the freedom to explore the world and everything it has to offer without succumbing to the more dangerous aspects of life before they're mature enough to differentiate what is and is not dangerous for themselves. I just hope I don't fall down the same rabbit hole so many conservative parents have that if it's something they don't understand, they automatically assume it's evil. 

Regarding the whole Catholic church thing, I'm not psychologist, but I've long felt like everything the right accuses the left of is projection. The easiest thing to do is take whatever Trump says and assume he is doing what he is accusing the democrats of, and you have a pretty good shot at being correct. From rigging elections, to being pedophiles, to grooming children, to their complaints about virtue signaling, propaganda and their claim to not want government to interfere in their lives (except, you know, in ALL of the cases where they do want to interfere with people's lives), if a Republican is saying a Democrat is doing something, there's a decent change they are convinced of such a thing because they themselves are doing it.

[Dill]

(04-18-2023, 12:30 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It's never enough, though.  There are cases where school boards have gone all GOP to fight CRT or grooming, but are still being accused of teaching CRT or grooming because it turns out when you let people believe whatever they want, they don't always stop believing something just because their people get elected.

The odds of this woman and people who think like her suddenly believing that the public school system is no longer an organization of sex abusers because the school board is possibly conservative enough for them, is slim.  Just because a school has a conservative school board doesn't mean they aren't being woke groomers the second you turn your back on them.

Think about it--isn't that really the PERFECT COVER for groomers--

pretending to be conservative and anti-CRT??