(07-24-2020, 10:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: Lot's arguing on my FB feed about how people "will never watch baseball again" if any player ever kneels during the National Anthem.
Problem is a lot of those same people are screaming about the kneeling during the ceremony BEFORE the National Anthem too.
One Giant in particular has been been raised up on the pedestal by Conservatives for kneeling during neither.
So my question to the board is: Is kneeling during the ceremony okay with you?
Sure. So is kneeling for the National Anthem. Just don't get upset when I say you're disrespecting the flag while kneeling during its honors. Is it OK with folks if I think that?
I could care less about the following things:
1. People getting upset by others kneeling, anytime, during the anthem or otherwise.
2. Other people’s social media pages, what they say others are saying and how they interpret it.
(07-24-2020, 11:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure. So is kneeling for the National Anthem. Just don't get upset when I say you're disrespecting the flag while kneeling during its honors. Is it OK with folks if I think that?
I'd be ok with that. Though it does make me wonder why you would think that, if a person clearly states that this act is not meant as disrespect to the flag. But what gives, imho no matter to get upset about.
To me the upset left does not seem like the main issue though. It seems it's rather the right that really gets upset over this one. Not you, but the many folks that cannot watch a whole sport because of this. This imho is ridiculous beyond comparison.
(07-25-2020, 12:31 AM)hollodero Wrote: I'd be ok with that. Though it does make me wonder why you would think that, if a person clearly states that this act is not meant as disrespect to the flag. But what gives, imho no matter to get upset about.
To me the upset left does not seem like the main issue though. It seems it's rather the right that really gets upset over this one. Not you, but the many folks that cannot watch a whole sport because of this. This imho is ridiculous beyond comparison.
Kinda like when someone says.. "With all due respect" as a shield to disrespect the hell out of you.
(07-24-2020, 10:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: So my question to the board is: Is kneeling during the ceremony okay with you?
Obviously. We yell "OOOOOOOOO" during it. As far as we're concerned, it's our city's song about our city's greatest military achievement.
The only people who complained about that were Nats sports writers for the Post, and the Sun shut them up by pointing out that they have 4 dead presidents race around the field during the 7th inning stretch.
Some people are quick to cry about kneeling but then defend whatever boorish insult Trump tweets from the Oval Office. One is objectively disrespectful while the other isn't.
(07-24-2020, 10:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: Lot's arguing on my FB feed about how people "will never watch baseball again" if any player ever kneels during the National Anthem.
Problem is a lot of those same people are screaming about the kneeling during the ceremony BEFORE the National Anthem too.
One Giant in particular has been been raised up on the pedestal by Conservatives for kneeling during neither.
So my question to the board is: Is kneeling during the ceremony okay with you?
People are free to do what they want during the National Anthem or before, but I should be free to not like it without fearing backlash.
All in all though I really don't give a shit. If it feels like a good peaceful protest for those that do it and it's pissing off the people they want to pay them attention then I reckon people are getting what they want.
(07-24-2020, 11:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure. So is kneeling for the National Anthem. Just don't get upset when I say you're disrespecting the flag while kneeling during its honors. Is it OK with folks if I think that?
Sure. Just don't get upset when the people kneeling tell you why and how it has nothing to do with the flag or disrespect for it and their truth overrides your fiction.
(07-25-2020, 01:54 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Obviously. We yell "OOOOOOOOO" during it. As far as we're concerned, it's our city's song about our city's greatest military achievement.
The only people who complained about that were Nats sports writers for the Post, and the Sun shut them up by pointing out that they have 4 dead presidents race around the field during the 7th inning stretch.
Some people are quick to cry about kneeling but then defend whatever boorish insult Trump tweets from the Oval Office. One is objectively disrespectful while the other isn't.
The first one I shared was about SF because that was the one where I saw all the arguing.
This morning I saw people swearing the Pirates lost a fan because then hung a BLM banner at PNC Park.
Not the 80's cocaine scandal.
Not the 20 straight years of losing records.
Not the selling off of good players to save money.
None of THAT...it was hanging the banner. Which tells me all I need to know about that "fan".
(07-25-2020, 02:18 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: but I should be free to not like it without fearing backlash.
Most of the "backlash" is over people getting upset for the wrong reason. They are not saying people are not entitled to their own opinion. What they are saying is that some don't understand the meaning of the protest.
Kind of like when people claim we can't let transgender women use the womens restroom because of sexual preditors, but they also insist lesbians have to use the womens restroom.
Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but when their opinion is not based on the truth they will get backlash. That is what happened with Drew Brees. He did not understand the meaning of the protest.
(07-24-2020, 11:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure. So is kneeling for the National Anthem. Just don't get upset when I say you're disrespecting the flag while kneeling during its honors. Is it OK with folks if I think that?
As long as you don't claim to be speaking for the military or veterans.
Colin Kaepernick decided to kneel during the National Anthem based on advice from former Army Green Beret Nate Boyer.
(07-25-2020, 08:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Most of the "backlash" is over people getting upset for the wrong reason. They are not saying people are not entitled to their own opinion. What they are saying is that some don't understand the meaning of the protest.
Kind of like when people claim we can't let transgender women use the womens restroom because of sexual preditors, but they also insist lesbians have to use the womens restroom.
Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but when their opinion is not based on the truth they will get backlash. That is what happened with Drew Brees. He did not understand the meaning of the protest.
As long as you don't claim to be speaking for the military or veterans.
Colin Kaepernick decided to kneel during the National Anthem based on advice from former Army Green Beret Nate Boyer.
Yeah, that veteran told him kneeling was less disrespectful than sitting. Nate Boyer loves the flag and what it stands for. But the narrative that he doesn't find it more disrespectful than standing is just not true. Ask yourself why doesn't he kneel.
But as you say: when their opinion is not based on the truth they will get backlash.
Anyone who has the opinion that kneeling is disrespectful to the flag should be free to do so without backlash, because it is.
Quote:The 10-year-old boy, identified by news station FOX 17 as Avery Price, has a syndrome that makes using his legs difficult, yet he still wanted to stand for the anthem. “I usually sit and put my hand over my heart, but last night I just decided to stand,” Avery told Fox. “I like to stand for my country.”
(07-25-2020, 09:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Then forget about Boyer. I can list MANY other veterans who support Kaepernick's form of protest.
All I am saying is that if you complain don't try to claim that you are speaking for miltary and veterans because that just is not true. You are only speaking for the ones that agree with you and that is far from all of them.
I don't speak for the military; matter of fact you were the first one to bring the military into it and your point quickly got shot down. I don't complain; I find it disrespectful. And I should be free to do that without you or anyone else telling me "I'm wrong". I won't tell anyone it's wrong to kneel for the anthem, you're just disrespecting the flag regardless of your intention.
But we've been through this before. So we can stop, because you speak of what you cannot know.
(07-25-2020, 09:52 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't speak for the military; matter of fact you were the first one to bring the military into it and your point quickly got shot down.
I brought it up because you have made that exact argument in the past.
(07-25-2020, 09:52 AM)bfine32 Wrote: And I should be free to do that without you or anyone else telling me "I'm wrong". I won't tell anyone it's wrong to kneel for the anthem, you're just disrespecting the flag regardless of your intention.
Here is a direct quote from former Green Beret Nate Boyer.
"But the fact of the matter is that we've gotta ... make sure that the narrative is understood that the protests are about racial inequality, social injustice and police brutality, and that kneeling during the anthem was a mechanism to raise that attention and to get those voices heard. But it's not about disrespecting the flag or disrespecting the military.”
This is why people get "backlash" for complaining about the protest "disrespecting the flag". The protest is not about disrespecting the flag. People that make it about disrespecting the flag are ignoring the whole point of the protest.
So you are not getting backlash for saying it is disrespecting the flag. The backlash is for ignoring the priciples involved.
It is like trashing Rosa Parks for sitting in the front of the bus because it made the bus late. It is a true statement, but it completely misses the point.
(07-25-2020, 10:05 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I brought it up because you have made that exact argument in the past.
Here is a direct quote from former Green Beret Nate Boyer.
ut the fact of the matter is that we've gotta ... make sure that the narrative is understood that the protests are about racial inequality, social injustice and police brutality, and that kneeling during the anthem was a mechanism to raise that attention and to get those voices heard. But it's not about disrespecting the flag or disrespecting the military.”
This is why people get "backlash" for complaining about the protest "disrespecting the flag". The protest is not about disrespecting the flag. People that make it about disrespecting the flag are ignoring the whole point of the protest.
So you are not getting backlash for saying it is disrespecting the flag. The backlash is for ignoring the priciples involved.
It is like trashing Rosa Parks for sitting in the front of the bus because it made the bus late. It is a true statement, but it completely misses the point.
Not once have I claimed to speak for the Military. I will freely give my opinion as a veteran though.
Didn't take you long not to "forget about Nate Boyer" did it. You still haven't answered the question I posed. Why doesn't Nate Boyer kneel for the anthem?
Of course the protest is not about disrespecting the flag, you're debating a point I never made. The protests are about police inequality, it just so happens that part of it disrespects the flag.
(07-25-2020, 09:37 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, that veteran told him kneeling was less disrespectful than sitting. Nate Boyer loves the flag and what it stands for. But the narrative that he doesn't find it more disrespectful than standing is just not true. Ask yourself why doesn't he kneel.
But as you say: when their opinion is not based on the truth they will get backlash.
Anyone who has the opinion that kneeling is disrespectful to the flag should be free to do so without backlash, because it is.
Lots of people want to stand for the anthem and do. Not sure why you had to hide behind a 10 year old rather than just make the case for why you want to.
(07-25-2020, 10:11 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You still haven't answered the question I posed. Why doesn't Nate Boyer kneel for the anthem?
I don't know. All I could find was that he "felt differently" about some things than Kaepernick.
The only thing I know for sure is that it does not have to do with disrespecting the flag because he has made it very clear that the kneeling is not about disrespecting the flag.
What quote do you have from Boyer explaining why he does not kneel during the anthem?
(07-25-2020, 10:19 AM)GMDino Wrote: Lots of people want to stand for the anthem and do. Not sure why you had to hide behind a 10 year old rather than just make the case for why you want to.
(07-25-2020, 10:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know. All I could find was that he "felt differently" about some things than Kaepernick.
The only thing I know for sure is that it does not have to do with disrespecting the flag because he has made it very clear that the kneeling is not about disrespecting the flag.
What quote do you have from Boyer explaining why he does not kneel during the anthem?
In his letter to Kaepernick he states he hopes Kap will one day feel encouraged to stand because he will be standing right there with him.
He has made very clear that the protest is not about disrespecting the flag and that kneeling is less disrespectful than sitting. We've been over this before.
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