MYTH: GOP is better for the Economy

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

[BigPapaKain]

That won't stop folks from voting red because they can't read.

[Dill]

(05-19-2023, 11:39 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: That won't stop folks from voting red because they can't read.

Oh they are reading all right--just not stuff that contradicts what they already "know."  

[*pally*]

It is in the Republican's playbook. Lower taxes on the rich and corporations. Dramatically decrease the revenue coming into the treasury...but numbers look ok for the first year or so before crashing 2 years after the tax cuts because as usual, their trickle-down economic plan failed to trickle down. Republicans lose the election and a new Democratic president sets about to repair what the Republicans broke but Congressional Republicans demand massive cuts to the social safety net since there is no way we can raise the taxes back up. This time they've gone even further and cut the IRS's budget so they can't even enforce the tax code.

What gets lost in the pandemic is that in the 4th QTR 2019, the US was beginning to show signs of heading into a recession. Trump was saved from having to address that because of what happened in 2020

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

A few points of fact that are rather important. Ignoring why Trump had such a huge increase in debt is the type of statistical legerdemain that actually makes the argument using it weaker. The only GOP POTUS on this list who really deserves scorn for their debt increase is Dick Cheney, err sorry George W. Bush. The invasion of Iraq is to date, the biggest foreign policy blunder in US history and quite honestly, the man should be in a prison cell for the rest of life because of it.

Again, you could make a much better argument for your point if you actually included important facts rather than a jpg you found on Facebook.

[Belsnickel]

(05-20-2023, 03:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A few points of fact that are rather important. Ignoring why Trump had such a huge increase in debt is the type of statistical legerdemain that actually makes the argument using it weaker. The only GOP POTUS on this list who really deserves scorn for their debt increase is Dick Cheney, err sorry George W. Bush. The invasion of Iraq is to date, the biggest foreign policy blunder in US history and quite honestly, the man should be in a prison cell for the rest of life because of it.

Again, you could make a much better argument for your point if you actually included important facts rather than a jpg you found on Facebook.

And what do you see as the reason for the huge increase in deficits under Trump? Was the the ~$2 trillion in revenue lost due to the 2017 tax cuts? Maybe the ~$1.6 trillion in increased discretionary spending caps.

Pandemic related costs is about half of the budget deficits Trump racked up. He still would've increased the debt even without the pandemic.

[*Nately120*]

I hope I'm just full of left-wing misinformation, because I'm starting to suspect the GOP is threatening to crash the economy because they won't back down from cutting veteran's benefits (among other things). I'm convinced (wrongfully, I hope) that the GOP is so damn good at spin and marketing that they know they can crash the economy and punish veterans at the benefit of their own ultra rich supporters and the general populace will still applaud them because the GOP is rocket fuel for the economy and they love veterans, ergo we need to get everyone who isn't a republican out of office because the democrats did all this bad stuff.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-20-2023, 08:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: And what do you see as the reason for the huge increase in deficits under Trump? Was the the ~$2 trillion in revenue lost due to the 2017 tax cuts? Maybe the ~$1.6 trillion in increased discretionary spending caps.

Pandemic related costs is about half of the budget deficits Trump racked up. He still would've increased the debt even without the pandemic.

I found this article rather informative regarding this subject.  

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/feb/01/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-wrong-that-trump-tax-cuts/

But you didn't address my main point, that being that the jpg in the OP is presented without context of any sort.  For example Clinton benefited from a robust economy propped up by the tech bubble.  He was just fortunate to not be in office when that bubble burst.  Trump had to deal with a once in a century pandemic.  Again, rather key points that OP doesn't even attempt to address.  This kind of short attention span, low information "my side good, other side bad" argument accomplishes literally nothing.  It's elementary school level thinking and it deserves to be called out as such. 

[Luvnit2]

There are so many aspects to evaluate the economy. I believe the lower and middle classes care about having good paying job and be able to save money for retirement. Under Trump, more jobs were created for all. Black unemployment dropped, Women unemployment dropped. This in spite of Trump shrinking (firing federal employees) the federal government.

Trump lowered gas prices and we were n ur way to energy independence. Wages raised under Trump also. I won't go through all of it, but the middles class and lower income citizens had an optimistic look of the future and the economy. Now, whether a Democrat, Independent or Republican, polls tell us exactly how the feel on the Biden economy. Please show me any poll in 2022 or 2023 saying Biden is handling the economy better than Trump.

I suggest you look it up. Biden's policy on the economy stink.

[Belsnickel]

(05-21-2023, 12:30 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I found this article rather informative regarding this subject.  

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/feb/01/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-wrong-that-trump-tax-cuts/

I mean, that really doesn't change anything in what I said and doesn't counter any of it.

(05-21-2023, 12:30 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: But you didn't address my main point, that being that the jpg in the OP is presented without context of any sort.  For example Clinton benefited from a robust economy propped up by the tech bubble.  He was just fortunate to not be in office when that bubble burst.  Trump had to deal with a once in a century pandemic.  Again, rather key points that OP doesn't even attempt to address.  This kind of short attention span, low information "my side good, other side bad" argument accomplishes literally nothing.  It's elementary school level thinking and it deserves to be called out as such. 

In general I agree with you, but I was merely pointing out that even without the pandemic Trump was on track to increase deficits which was a course reversal from the prior administration. Hence me pointing out policies that increased the debt prior to the pandemic, addressing you pointing out that lack of context to say that in the case of Trump it would've halved his increase to the debt, but that was still more than those before him and he rode into office on an economic upswing.

[Belsnickel]

(05-21-2023, 03:01 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: There are so many aspects to evaluate the economy. I believe the lower and middle classes care about having good paying job and be able to save money for retirement. Under Trump, more jobs were created for all. Black unemployment dropped, Women unemployment dropped. This in spite of Trump shrinking (firing federal employees) the federal government.

Trump lowered gas prices and we were n ur way to energy independence. Wages raised under Trump also. I won't go through all of it, but the middles class and lower income citizens had an optimistic look of the future and the economy. Now, whether a Democrat, Independent or Republican, polls tell us exactly how the feel on the Biden economy. Please show me any poll in 2022 or 2023 saying Biden is handling the economy better than Trump.

I suggest you look it up. Biden's policy on the economy stink.

What the polls say isn't reflective of the actual policy performance. It is always the case that POTUS gets blame or credit for the economy while they are in office, right or wrong. The situation right now is a global inflation issue that Biden can't really do anything about. Oil prices are high worldwide, not just here. The issues people are hammering Biden on economically have nothing to do with his policies. His policies have had a positive effect on job and GDP growth, but unlike his predecessor he came into office with a difficult global economic situation.

[KillerGoose]

(05-21-2023, 03:01 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: There are so many aspects to evaluate the economy. I believe the lower and middle classes care about having good paying job and be able to save money for retirement. Under Trump, more jobs were created for all. Black unemployment dropped, Women unemployment dropped. This in spite of Trump shrinking (firing federal employees) the federal government.

Trump lowered gas prices and we were n ur way to energy independence. Wages raised under Trump also. I won't go through all of it, but the middles class and lower income citizens had an optimistic look of the future and the economy. Now, whether a Democrat, Independent or Republican, polls tell us exactly how the feel on the Biden economy. Please show me any poll in 2022 or 2023 saying Biden is handling the economy better than Trump.

I suggest you look it up. Biden's policy on the economy stink.

It's worth pointing out every time this gets brought up. I will beat this to death if it requires it.

To the bolded...no, he didn't. As a matter of fact, gas prices actually went up under Trump. The lowest gas prices we have had in nearly 20 years was under the Obama administration. You can find this data here. The final year of the Obama administration saw a national average price of $2.25 per gallon. In Trump's first full year, the national average went up by 12% to $2.53 per gallon. By 2018, Trump's second full year, gas prices had risen by 25% to a national average of $2.81 per gallon. 

Of course, neither should be getting much credit or flak for this because oil & gas is a global commodity and isn't controlled by the president of the United States. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-21-2023, 03:41 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I mean, that really doesn't change anything in what I said and doesn't counter any of it.

I didn't say it did, I said I found it informative.  Something the OP cannot claim.

Quote:In general I agree with you, but I was merely pointing out that even without the pandemic Trump was on track to increase deficits which was a course reversal from the prior administration. Hence me pointing out policies that increased the debt prior to the pandemic, addressing you pointing out that lack of context to say that in the case of Trump it would've halved his increase to the debt, but that was still more than those before him and he rode into office on an economic upswing.

And that's completely fair, and it's informative and has context.  Again, something the OP cannot claim.  

[Luvnit2]

(05-21-2023, 03:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What the polls say isn't reflective of the actual policy performance. It is always the case that POTUS gets blame or credit for the economy while they are in office, right or wrong. The situation right now is a global inflation issue that Biden can't really do anything about. Oil prices are high worldwide, not just here. The issues people are hammering Biden on economically have nothing to do with his policies. His policies have had a positive effect on job and GDP growth, but unlike his predecessor he came into office with a difficult global economic situation.

On day 1 in office Biden catered to climate activists and started his war in fossil fuels. That triggered the rise of both gas and oil. Sorry, no way to sin the Biden policies hurt inflation.
He also shut down the US because of Covid and as a result some children will never recover the lost education and intention skills needed to be successfully in life. 

[KillerGoose]

(05-22-2023, 11:05 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: On day 1 in office Biden catered to climate activists and started his war in fossil fuels. That triggered the rise of both gas and oil. Sorry, no way to sin the Biden policies hurt inflation.
He also shut down the US because of Covid and as a result some children will never recover the lost education and intention skills needed to be successfully in life. 

The United States was "shut down" in 2020, under the Trump administration. Biden took over in February of 2021. There have been no shutdowns under the Biden administration. 

[Belsnickel]

(05-22-2023, 11:05 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: On day 1 in office Biden catered to climate activists and started his war in fossil fuels. That triggered the rise of both gas and oil. Sorry, no way to sin the Biden policies hurt inflation.
He also shut down the US because of Covid and as a result some children will never recover the lost education and intention skills needed to be successfully in life. 

As already pointed out, the shutdowns were not a result of Biden policies. As for oil and gas, the rising prices are not the result of anything Biden did. That is a global issue right now which has been pointed out time and time again.

[*Nately120*]

The GOP is so good at blaming everything bad on democrats that I'm betting Donald "Take the guns first, go through due process second" Trump and folks of his class are starting to realize they could take those pesky "tyrant stopping" weapons from the peasants and their supporters would eagerly say "Democrats did this, we need more republicans."

[*pally*]

(05-22-2023, 11:05 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: On day 1 in office Biden catered to climate activists and started his war in fossil fuels. That triggered the rise of both gas and oil. Sorry, no way to sin the Biden policies hurt inflation.
He also shut down the US because of Covid and as a result some children will never recover the lost education and intention skills needed to be successfully in life. 

The shutdowns started during the Trump administration in Mar of 2020.  Joe Biden did not add to them.  Schools are controlled by local entities and the states, not the federal government. If your school district remained closed blame your local school board and the Governor of your state.

Increased demand combined with low supply due to the pandemic shutdown (Trump shutdown) is what caused increased gas prices.  They have been kept low due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and massive profit-taking by the oil and gas producers

[*Nately120*]

(05-22-2023, 12:59 PM)pally Wrote: The shutdowns started during the Trump administration in Mar of 2020.  Joe Biden did not add to them.  Schools are controlled by local entities and the states, not the federal government. If your school district remained closed blame your local school board and the Governor of your state.

Increased demand combined with low supply due to the pandemic shutdown (Trump shutdown) is what caused increased gas prices.  They have been kept low due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and massive profit-taking by the oil and gas producers

The shutdown happened under Trump and the declaration that Covid was over was under Biden.  Trump shut us down and Biden opened things back up. If we are going to play by intentionally simplified rules and ignore the rest of the universe, it's only fair we leave it at this. 

[*michaelsean*]

(05-20-2023, 11:37 AM)pally Wrote: It is in the Republican's playbook.  Lower taxes on the rich and corporations.  Dramatically decrease the revenue coming into the treasury...but numbers look ok for the first year or so before crashing 2 years after the tax cuts because as usual, their trickle-down economic plan failed to trickle down. Republicans lose the election and a new Democratic president sets about to repair what the Republicans broke but Congressional Republicans demand massive cuts to the social safety net since there is no way we can raise the taxes back up.  This time they've gone even further and cut the IRS's budget so they can't even enforce the tax code.

What gets lost in the pandemic is that in the 4th QTR 2019, the US was beginning to show signs of heading into a recession.  Trump was saved from having to address that because of what happened in 2020

For being a Republican all the way up until McConnell screwed the Dems on a SC seat, you seem to not like a lot of historical Republican ideology..