Marvin Lewis and Bengals agree on contract extension

[Essex Johnson]

(04-12-2016, 06:48 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Only in being the longest tenured.

There are 17 other coaches that have been to a Championship game. Only he and Fisher have not won a playoff game while being two of the twelve longest tenured head coaches on their current team. But Fisher has made it to the Super Bowl, just not with the Rams.

There have been 11 head coaches that had their first gig since 2013 and on.

4, of which, were signed this offseason. So of course they're going to be in the bottom half.

So where am I cherry picking?

Even in winning percentage Marvin ranks 16th overall. Sure, he's the 2nd longest tenured, but even guys that have been around less have more playoff success and even regular season success.

And, again, that's counting the 6 newly hired head coaches who don't have records on their team.

So Marvin ranked 16th out of 26.

Where does he rank in the top half exactly? Over 100 wins? Cool. If you're around for 13 years I'd hope you at least surpass that.

 Marvins winning percentage is still better than Gruden, Coughlin, Reeves, Mora, Vermill, Bum Phillips..   All fine and successful coaches... so i would say you are not really giving Marvin a fair shake on the success he has achieved as a head coach in the NFL..... 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-12-2016, 10:26 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote:  Marvins winning percentage is still better than 1. Gruden, 2. Coughlin, 3. Reeves, 4. Mora, 5. Vermill, 6. Bum Phillips..   All fine and successful coaches... so i would say you are not really giving Marvin a fair shake on the success he has achieved as a head coach in the NFL..... 

1. SB,
2. SB x2
3. SB Appearance x4
4. Playoffs? PLAYOFFS!? 2nd worst postseason coach in NFL history, known mostly for that quote now.
5. SB, SB Appearance
6. Really? Dude had 5 winning seasons and you put him on this list?

Fact is, 3 of the 6 you listed won a SB, and another went to 4 of them. Marvin can't even win a single playoff game.

[fredtoast]

(04-12-2016, 06:48 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Where does he rank in the top half exactly?

Winning percentage. 12th

Percentage of seasons making the playoffs. 12th

Lowest percentage of losing seasons.  7th

Total wins.  5th.

[Essex Johnson]

(04-12-2016, 10:38 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1. SB,
2. SB x2
3. SB Appearance x4
4. Playoffs? PLAYOFFS!? 2nd worst postseason coach in NFL history, known mostly for that quote now.
5. SB, SB Appearance
6. Really? Dude had 5 winning seasons and you put him on this list?

Fact is, 3 of the 6 you listed won a SB, and another went to 4 of them. Marvin can't even win a single playoff game.

Still has a better winning percentage than all of those coaches so you can argue playoff success and i can counter with regular season success.. neither is totally right or totally wrong.. the point is less that he is not as successful as other coaches in post season.. . there have been coaches successful in playoffs and not so successful over time in regular season.. does not mean they are a outstanding coach. say since you can;t win in the playoffs you are a horrible coach is just too narrow of judgement.. 

I have little doubt if Marvin had stepped away from coaching the Bengals this past season.. he would have been offered a head coaching job by a few other teams.. because he has had success and has shown he can turn a franchise around and put them on a winning path.

My point which if you look at the posts that were acting like Marvin was a bad coach has very little merit... A career is measured more than just how you do in the playoffs.. it is also measured on how you do in the regular season and being able to make the playoffs.  Bad coaches are not bad in playoffs since they tend to not even get there.. bad coaches are bad in the regular season..Marvins history and track record in regular season does not make him a bad coach.

[wolfkaosaun]

(04-12-2016, 09:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't see 15 coaches with a higher winning percentage.

I have him at #12 behind.  .  .  

Belicheck
McCarthy
Pagano
Tomlin
Peyton
Harbaugh
Reid
Rivera
Carroll
Fox 
Caldwell

Who else?

Todd Bowles
Bill O'Brien
Mike Zimmer
Bruce Arians

All of those coaches have above a .549 winning percentage.

Have they been around as long? No. But that strengthens my point about the 11 head coaches that got their first gig in 2013.

(04-12-2016, 09:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, right.  It is so easy to coach as many games as Marvin and have a .543 winning %.

I guess that is why in the entire history of the NFL only 23 other coaches have done it.

It is sooooo easy.

33 coaches have more career wins than Marvin Lewis. Only he and Jim Mora are the only coaches in that 34 that never made it a Conference Championship game.

And what do you mean only 23 other coaches have a winning percentage of .543%? Where are you getting these numbers from?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_head_coaches_with_50_wins

Go ahead. Go to winning percentage and count how many coaches you have to go past to reach Marvin Lewis. Go ahead. I'll wait......don't wanna do it?

He ranked 53rd in winning percentage. You were 30 off.

So, please tell me, where are you getting your numbers?

[fredtoast]

(04-13-2016, 01:48 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: And what do you mean only 23 other coaches have a winning percentage of .543%? Where are you getting these numbers from?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_National_Football_League_head_coaches_with_50_wins

Go ahead. Go to winning percentage and count how many coaches you have to go past to reach Marvin Lewis. Go ahead. I'll wait......don't wanna do it?

He ranked 53rd in winning percentage. You were 30 off.

So, please tell me, where are you getting your numbers?

Learn to read.

Go ahead.  I'll wait.

(04-12-2016, 09:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, right.  It is so easy to coach as many games as Marvin and have a .543 winning %.

I guess that is why in the entire history of the NFL only 23 other coaches have done it.

It is sooooo easy.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-12-2016, 09:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, right.  It is so easy to coach as many games as Marvin and have a .543 winning %.

I guess that is why in the entire history of the NFL only 23 other coaches have done it.

It is sooooo easy.

How many coaches have coaches have coached 208 games though?

And where does Marv rank among THOSE coaches? 

You're using Marv's incredible longevity to whittle it down to 23 coaches when Marv's longevity has more to do with Mike Brown's loyalty than Marv's own success.

[fredtoast]

(04-13-2016, 12:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: How many coaches have coaches have coached 208 games though?

And where does Marv rank among THOSE coaches? 

You're using Marv's incredible longevity to whittle it down to 23 coaches when Marv's longevity has more to do with Mike Brown's loyalty than Marv's own success.

31

But I don't know why coaching a lot of games is a bad thing.  A lot of these guys that have a nice record over just one or two years will probably drop down once they coach more games.  Unless you believe that a majority of the greatest coaches in NFL history are coaching right now.

Do you really think Todd Bowles is a better coach than Bill Walsh because he has a higher career winning percentage?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-13-2016, 12:56 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Still has a better winning percentage than all of those coaches so you can argue playoff success and i can counter with regular season success.. neither is totally right or totally wrong.. the point is less that he is not as successful as other coaches in post season.. . there have been coaches successful in playoffs and not so successful over time in regular season.. does not mean they are a outstanding coach. say since you can;t win in the playoffs you are a horrible coach is just too narrow of judgement.. 

I have little doubt if Marvin had stepped away from coaching the Bengals this past season.. he would have been offered a head coaching job by a few other teams.. because he has had success and has shown he can turn a franchise around and put them on a winning path.

My point which if you look at the posts that were acting like Marvin was a bad coach has very little merit... A career is measured more than just how you do in the playoffs.. it is also measured on how you do in the regular season and being able to make the playoffs.  Bad coaches are not bad in playoffs since they tend to not even get there.. bad coaches are bad in the regular season..Marvins history and track record in regular season does not make him a bad coach.

Nope, yours is totally wrong. The goal in the NFL is and always will be a Super Bowl. Nobody lifts up a trophy for doing well in the regular season and then flopping in the postseason time and time again.

Postseason results will always trump regular season results.

Tom Coughlin won a Super bowl with a 9 win team. Nobody says "sure wish I could be the Bengals with 12 regular season wins and then yet another first round loss instead" ...or... "sure wish I could be the Panthers losing the Super bowl with a 15 win team instead".

Do you think the Broncos would trade their SB win to the Panthers if they could trade their regular season win totals? Of course not.

[*Nately120*]

(04-13-2016, 02:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Nope, yours is totally wrong. The goal in the NFL is and always will be a Super Bowl. Nobody lifts up a trophy for doing well in the regular season and then flopping in the postseason time and time again.

Postseason results will always trump regular season results.

Tom Coughlin won a Super bowl with a 9 win team. Nobody says "sure wish I could be the Bengals with 12 regular season wins and then yet another first round loss instead" ...or... "sure wish I could be the Panthers losing the Super bowl with a 15 win team instead".

Do you think the Broncos would trade their SB win to the Panthers if they could trade their regular season win totals? Of course not.

Regular season wins are nice when you are a lousy and/or rebuilding team.  Making the playoffs in 2011 and 2012 was just swell in itself, but we've moved beyond that and now it is time to stop comparing ourselves to the Browns, or the Bengals of the 90s, or the 2010 Bengals, or the Raiders, Buccaneers, Bills etc. 

We are making the playoffs with the regularity seen by the Patriots, Packers, Seahawks etc, but we aren't winning like them. Honestly, I thought we'd play the Jets in Cincy this year and Shitzpatrick would meltdown and we'd finally win a playoff game by default, but he decided to meltdown the week before and let the Steelers in so we could meltdown against them. Meh.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-13-2016, 02:03 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Nope, yours is totally wrong. The goal in the NFL is and always will be a Super Bowl. Nobody lifts up a trophy for doing well in the regular season and then flopping in the postseason time and time again.

Postseason results will always trump regular season results.

Tom Coughlin won a Super bowl with a 9 win team. Nobody says "sure wish I could be the Bengals with 12 regular season wins and then yet another first round loss instead" ...or... "sure wish I could be the Panthers losing the Super bowl with a 15 win team instead".

Do you think the Broncos would trade their SB win to the Panthers if they could trade their regular season win totals? Of course not.

This.....well said.....and.......

(04-13-2016, 02:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Regular season wins are nice when you are a lousy and/or rebuilding team.  Making the playoffs in 2011 and 2012 was just swell in itself, but we've moved beyond that and now it is time to stop comparing ourselves to the Browns, or the Bengals of the 90s, or the 2010 Bengals, or the Raiders, Buccaneers, Bills etc. 

We are making the playoffs with the regularity seen by the Patriots, Packers, Seahawks etc, but we aren't winning like them.  Honestly, I thought we'd play the Jets in Cincy this year and Shitzpatrick would meltdown and we'd finally win a playoff game by default, but he decided to meltdown the week before and let the Steelers in so we could meltdown against them.  Meh.

........thiiissssssssss.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-13-2016, 01:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 31

But I don't know why coaching a lot of games is a bad thing.  A lot of these guys that have a nice record over just one or two years will probably drop down once they coach more games.  Unless you believe that a majority of the greatest coaches in NFL history are coaching right now.

Do you really think Todd Bowles is a better coach than Bill Walsh because he has a higher career winning percentage?

No I don't, but I do know that 23rd of 31 doesn't sound nearly as impressive as just saying 23rd all time.

Also, what was the post season records for these 31 other HCs? How many failed to win even a single playoff game?

[GodFather]

(04-13-2016, 03:12 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: No I don't, but I do know that 23rd of 31 doesn't sound nearly as impressive as just saying 23rd all time.

Also, what was the post season records for these 31 other HCs? How many failed to win even a single playoff game?

Exactly, Fred doesn't like doing the math for that stat which you would think would be the most important stat to have. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-09-2016, 09:34 AM)milksheikh Wrote: According to reports, Marvin offered Hue a deal where after 2 years Marvin would step down and Hue would take his place but Hue chose Cleveland but Mike Brown didn't like that idea so Hue chose Cleveland.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000651626/article/marvin-lewis-bengals-agree-to-extension

Yay Mike Clown!  Hire us another restaurant manger you stupid @#%$!

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-12-2016, 02:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is ridiculous.

According to your logic 29 teams should be firing their head coach right now.

That just is not how the NFL works.

He didnt say anything like that. The only thing ridiculous is your reply.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-12-2016, 02:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is ridiculous.

According to your logic 29 teams should be firing their head coach right now.

That just is not how the NFL works.

.....but that ain't the logic.  29 other teams haven't lost five consecutive playoff games.  29 other teams haven't gone from a division champ one year to 4 and freaking 12 the next.  29 other teams haven't got a HC that has been at the helm for 14 years.  29 other teams haven't got a playoff drought that goes back to when we couldn't touch MC Hammer....get the drift?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

....also, I'd like to add that Jim Mora coached in all three USFL Championship games, and won two of them.  So no, Mediocre Marv and his Merry Band of Tenured Bums are not as good as Mora.

[wolfkaosaun]

(04-13-2016, 02:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Learn to read.

Go ahead.  I'll wait.

Don Shula
George Halas
Tony Dungy
Bill Belicheck
Curley Lambeau
Bill Cowher
Paul Brown
Joe Gibbs
Bud Grant
Marty Schottenheimer
Tom Landry
Steve Owen
Andy Reid
Mike Holmgren
Hank Stram
Bill Parcells
Chuck Knoll
Marv Levy
Mike Ditka
Chuck Knox
John Fox
Mike Shanahan
Sid Gillman
Dennis Green

There's 24 coaches who have also coached 200+ games. They all have better winning percentage than Marvin. They all have been to at least a conference championship. Many have won Super Bowls or played in them.

Marvin ranks 25th compared to coaches that have played in 200+ games.

Jim Mora
Dan Reeves
Tom Coughlin
Dick Vermeil
Jeff Fisher
Weeb Ewbank
Norv Turner

Those are the 7 coaches who also have coached 200+ games and they have a lower winning percentage than Marvin.
Yet, 3 of those 7 coaches have won a Super Bowl. And all but Marvin and Jim Mora been to a conference championship game.

Marvin is one of two coaches out of 32 coaches that has never made it to a championship game that also has coached for 200+ games.

So, yeah, other coaches have had better regular season success and even better post season success.

And, again, he wasn't ranked 23rd, it was 25th.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(04-13-2016, 06:00 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Don Shula
George Halas
Tony Dungy
Bill Belicheck
Curley Lambeau
Bill Cowher
Paul Brown
Joe Gibbs
Bud Grant
Marty Schottenheimer
Tom Landry
Steve Owen
Andy Reid
Mike Holmgren
Hank Stram
Bill Parcells
Chuck Knoll
Marv Levy
Mike Ditka
Chuck Knox
John Fox
Mike Shanahan
Sid Gillman
Dennis Green

There's 24 coaches who have also coached 200+ games. They all have better winning percentage than Marvin. They all have been to at least a conference championship. Many have won Super Bowls or played in them.

Marvin ranks 25th compared to coaches that have played in 200+ games.

Jim Mora
Dan Reeves
Tom Coughlin
Dick Vermeil
Jeff Fisher
Weeb Ewbank
Norv Turner

Those are the 7 coaches who also have coached 200+ games and they have a lower winning percentage than Marvin.
Yet, 3 of those 7 coaches have won a Super Bowl. And all but Marvin and Jim Mora been to a conference championship game.

Marvin is one of two coaches out of 32 coaches that has never made it to a championship game that also has coached for 200+ games.

So, yeah, other coaches have had better regular season success and even better post season success.

And, again, he wasn't ranked 23rd, it was 25th.

Oops!!!!! Looks like someone done went and got the Hooked on Phonics!

[*bengalfan74*]

(04-12-2016, 02:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is ridiculous.

According to your logic 29 teams should be firing their head coach right now.

That just is not how the NFL works.

Speaking of how the NFL works, how many teams besides Cincinnati would have a HC in place for 14 seasons that can't win a single playoff  game ?