Marvin gets crushed by the fans (rightly so)...but I don't see any coach winning here

[THE PISTONS]

It's the organization.

Any organization that cites obtaining Comp Picks as a free agency strategy can't win.

Any organization that offers a Guard a $5.5 million a year extension after a comparable Guard signs for $10 million a year can't win.

We had 2 great drafts with Green/Dalton/Boling and Atkins/Dunlap and have been living off of that. We need more scouts. The coaches CANNOT SCOUT college games as they occur when the NFL season is. That forces us to rely on workouts too much. How many guys with school bench press records (Billings/Westerman/Bodine?) or freakish 40's (Ross/Moch) are we going to draft? We need guys that can play football.

How many years are we going to shun free agency citing saving for upcoming free agents? The Steelers do a lot more with less and they never seem to have a really bad year.

How many organizations would keep a coach who was 0-7 in the playoffs? Teams seldom give guys 4 years to win a playoff game.

This team frequently takes chances on talented guys with major red flags...and it usually comes back to bite them.

The current Bengals management team hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ years.

This franchise has won atleast 1 playoff game in 3 of it's 50 seasons.

Marvin is not a great coach by any means...but what coach could come here and win? They basically have to overcome the organization to win.

[bengals67]

There is ZERO chance of this organization ever winning a Super Bowl unless a new coach is allowed to come in and completely clean house and hire his own staff.

The new coach needs to be someone outside of the organization who can look at the whole set up with fresh eyes and given complete authority.

Unless this happens there is ZERO hope for things changing. ZERO.

[sandwedge]

There was a camera shot of Tomlin yesterday, I can't remember at what point of the game, and Romo said something like "he has the look of a winner" or to that effect and then they shoot over to Marvin and he has the stupidest lost looking face! I told my friend "then there is our complete bafoon"... Really embarrassing.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-23-2017, 11:52 AM)bengals67 Wrote: There is ZERO chance of this organization ever winning a Super Bowl unless a new coach is allowed to come in and completely clean house and hire his own staff.

The new coach needs to be someone outside of the organization who can look at the whole set up with fresh eyes and given complete authority.

Unless this happens there is ZERO hope for things changing. ZERO.

Besides staff though...we haven't won a playoff game since modern free agency began.

The Bengals need to update their player acquisition model. You can't rely on coaches as your sole scouts. The college season is going on while the NFL season is therefore you miss guys actually playing in tapes.

The Bengals then go in after the season and watch their workouts. That's why you see us draft the guys that set bench press records.

[Pat5775]

I hear ya. This organization has a pitiful record under Mike Brown. He has zero knowledge of what it take to be a champion.

But trust me, getting rid of Marv would be a huge step in the right direction.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-23-2017, 11:57 AM)sandwedge Wrote: There was a camera shot of Tomlin yesterday, I can't remember at what point of the game, and Romo said something like "he has the look of a winner" or to that effect and then they shoot over to Marvin and he has the stupidest lost looking face! I told my friend "then there is our complete bafoon"... Really embarrassing.

Honestly, if you switched Tomlin and Lewis...I bet Lewis wins a Super Bowl with the Steelers and I bet Tomlin never wins a playoff game here.

[GodFather]

(10-23-2017, 11:36 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's the organization.

Any organization that cites obtaining Comp Picks as a free agency strategy can't win.

Any organization that offers a Guard a $5.5 million a year extension after a comparable Guard signs for $10 million a year can't win.

We had 2 great drafts with Green/Dalton/Boling and Atkins/Dunlap and have been living off of that. We need more scouts. The coaches CANNOT SCOUT college games as they occur when the NFL season is. That forces us to rely on workouts too much. How many guys with school bench press records (Billings/Westerman/Bodine?) or freakish 40's (Ross/Moch) are we going to draft? We need guys that can play football.

How many years are we going to shun free agency citing saving for upcoming free agents? The Steelers do a lot more with less and they never seem to have a really bad year.

How many organizations would keep a coach who was 0-7 in the playoffs? Teams seldom give guys 4 years to win a playoff game.

This team frequently takes chances on talented guys with major red flags...and it usually comes back to bite them.

The current Bengals management team hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ years.

This franchise has won atleast 1 playoff game in 3 of it's 50 seasons.

Marvin is not a great coach by any means...but what coach could come here and win? They basically have to overcome the organization to win.

We had two coaches here that would've been a huge upgrade over Marvin, Zimmer/Gruden. I would be upset if they hired from within now because there isn't anyone in the organization that will be an upgrade.

Theres 32 teams in the NFL, theres no doubt that we could find a great replacement if the front office did their job. 

[Atomic Orange]

You're probably right but we have to try. Otherwise we are just throwing the ball away on 4th down.

[*Nately120*]

Meh, in my eyes (and I'm not omniscient, so take it for what it is) Marvin lost the right to be seen as a victim of Mike Brown when he and Palmer united after 2010 to demand changes from Mike Brown and Marvin caved in. From that point onward I saw Marvin Lewis as being complicit, or at least compliant, with a flawed model for his own personal benefit.

I can understand why Marvin would do that, so I don't think he's a BAD person per se...but he had his plan to push for change and he instead chose to ride out a non-winning plan and let Palmer take the heat for "quitting" on the team. I don't think anyone can change Mike Brown's mind, but Marvin Lewis has been willingly standing in the way of potential progress for the past 7 years in my mind by being a go-to HC safety net of sorts.

tl;dr = Marvin Lewis gave up his fight for progression to save his own skin post-2010. He's more than a willing accomplice to Mike Brown's treachery at this point.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-23-2017, 11:36 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's the organization.

Any organization that cites obtaining Comp Picks as a free agency strategy can't win.

Any organization that offers a Guard a $5.5 million a year extension after a comparable Guard signs for $10 million a year can't win.

We had 2 great drafts with Green/Dalton/Boling and Atkins/Dunlap and have been living off of that. We need more scouts. The coaches CANNOT SCOUT college games as they occur when the NFL season is. That forces us to rely on workouts too much. How many guys with school bench press records (Billings/Westerman/Bodine?) or freakish 40's (Ross/Moch) are we going to draft? We need guys that can play football.

How many years are we going to shun free agency citing saving for upcoming free agents? The Steelers do a lot more with less and they never seem to have a really bad year.

How many organizations would keep a coach who was 0-7 in the playoffs? Teams seldom give guys 4 years to win a playoff game.

This team frequently takes chances on talented guys with major red flags...and it usually comes back to bite them.

The current Bengals management team hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ years.

This franchise has won atleast 1 playoff game in 3 of it's 50 seasons.

Marvin is not a great coach by any means...but what coach could come here and win? They basically have to overcome the organization to win.

Good points, and you know I agree with you, but in hindsight......I think Coughlin would have been the correct hire.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-23-2017, 12:11 PM)GodFather Wrote: We had two coaches here that would've been a huge upgrade over Marvin, Zimmer/Gruden. I would be upset if they hired from within now because there isn't anyone in the organization that will be an upgrade.

Theres 32 teams in the NFL, theres no doubt that we could find a great replacement if the front office did their job. 

People thought Jackson would be a great coach too...and he's won 1 game with the Browns.

Zimmer has been mediocre in Minnesotta and fans are impatient with him.

I do like Zimmer. I don't know if he could succeed here.

[Big Boss]

We're not winning until Mike or Katie have the age-old epiphany that you have to spend money to make money.

[THE PISTONS]

(10-23-2017, 12:20 PM)Wyche Wrote: Good points, and you know I agree with you, but in hindsight......I think Coughlin would have been the correct hire.

I wanted Coughlin too...but guess why Coughlin wasn't hired? I read an article that said there were 'unresolved issues about personnel department'. Likely meaning he wanted to bring his GM with him.

People close to Coughlin said Thursday that the size of the personnel department could be a potential deal-breaker, and that Coughlin probably wouldn't take a job without the resources he thinks he needs to win.

http://bengals.enquirer.com/2003/01/10/wwwben1a10.html

[GodFather]

(10-23-2017, 12:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Zimmer has been mediocre in Minnesotta and fans are impatient with him.

I do like Zimmer. I don't know if he could succeed here.

The Vikings are 5-2 this year. Info below on Mike since starting as head coach in Minnesota. If fans think he's mediocre they should watch the Bengals for a season!

He ended his first year with a record of 7 wins and 9 losses, an improvement over the 2013 record of 5-10-1, and the best record for a first year head coach in the Minnesota Vikings franchise since Dennis Green in 1992. In 2015, Zimmer improved on his 2014record by ending the season with a record of 11-5 and winning the NFC North

[THE PISTONS]

(10-23-2017, 12:27 PM)GodFather Wrote: The Vikings are 5-2 this year. Info below on Mike since starting as head coach in Minnesota. If fans think he's mediocre they should watch the Bengals for a season!

He ended his first year with a record of 7 wins and 9 losses, an improvement over the 2013 record of 5-10-1, and the best record for a first year head coach in the Minnesota Vikings franchise since Dennis Green in 1992. In 2015, Zimmer improved on his 2014record by ending the season with a record of 11-5 and winning the NFC North

Zimmer is too brash and outspoken. No way would Bengals Management hire someone like that.

We'll get Guenther or Hazlett as our next HC.

[*Nately120*]

(10-23-2017, 12:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: People thought Jackson would be a great coach too...and he's won 1 game with the Browns.

Zimmer has been mediocre in Minnesotta and fans are impatient with him.

I do like Zimmer. I don't know if he could succeed here.

In Zimmer's defense, he's had decent success in Minnesota despite the fact that his starting QBs knees keep blowing up.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-23-2017, 12:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I wanted Coughlin too...but guess why Coughlin wasn't hired? I read an article that said there were 'unresolved issues about personnel department'. Likely meaning he wanted to bring his GM with him.

People close to Coughlin said Thursday that the size of the personnel department could be a potential deal-breaker, and that Coughlin probably wouldn't take a job without the resources he thinks he needs to win.

http://bengals.enquirer.com/2003/01/10/wwwben1a10.html

Oh, I knew all of this, but IF Coughlin was hired, you'd have to think he had gotten his demands......which could have changed our fortunes immensely.