Mass shootings

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-15-2018, 12:36 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Most of Nately's responses are nothing more than facetious commentary that is half-assed mockery. I like him, don't get me wrong, this isn't me calling him out for anything. You just have to understand that his opinion of the conversations that occur on here having any sort of substantial merit is one of extreme skepticism, and so engaging in them in any serious way isn't his typical direction.

I love me some Nately.....he half-ass mocks about everything.   My initial thought was the metal detector manufacturers would be getting tax breaks was the direction his sarcasm was going.  I just wasn't sure.

[*Nately120*]

(02-15-2018, 12:51 PM)Wyche Wrote: I love me some Nately.....he half-ass mocks about everything.   My initial thought was the metal detector manufacturers would be getting tax breaks was the direction his sarcasm was going.  I just wasn't sure.

I think metal detectors in schools makes a lot of sense, but my joke was more along the lines of the powers-that-be not actually caring about stuff like that and the voting public not holding them accountable for it.

[Belsnickel]

(02-15-2018, 12:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'll admit I've been pretty lazy as of late.  I used to enjoy a reasonable political debate, but things have just become so insane that I can't quite wrap my head around it, other than to shroud myself in a cloak of cynical mockery.  In my defense, I'm just pretending our current political course of action makes sense, so if it comes off as total nonsense, that's the fault of the powers that be...or something.

We can debate the latest shootings, but the point is even  the political party that blames mental illness for shootings made it easier for mentally ill people to buy guns.  This stuff is beyond insane, but I don't mean to derail any real discussion people want to have.  I'm not blaming you guys for wanting to discuss it (I like discussing stuff, for the most part too), I'm just pointing out how utterly hopeless this particular situation is.

I stand by my actual serious assertion that we should treat citizens who die in this manner with a respect and honor similar to what we bestow upon those who die in combat. This is dying to preserve our freedoms.

I get it, more than you may realize. People react to this sort of environment in different ways and I'm not going to make value judgements on that. How I have been reacting, which has been mostly engaging more in the conversation, being more active in my participation in our democracy, searching for policy solutions, etc., is not what most, or even many, people would do. I may have a breaking point down the road when I see it as hopeless, I'm just not there at this point in time.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-15-2018, 12:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'll admit I've been pretty lazy as of late.  I used to enjoy a reasonable political debate, but things have just become so insane that I can't quite wrap my head around it, other than to shroud myself in a cloak of cynical mockery.  In my defense, I'm just pretending our current political course of action makes sense, so if it comes off as total nonsense, that's the fault of the powers that be...or something.

We can debate the latest shootings, but the point is even  the political party that blames mental illness for shootings made it easier for mentally ill people to buy guns.  This stuff is beyond insane, but I don't mean to derail any real discussion people want to have.  I'm not blaming you guys for wanting to discuss it (I like discussing stuff, for the most part too), I'm just pointing out how utterly hopeless this particular situation is.

I stand by my actual serious assertion that we should treat citizens who die in this manner with a respect and honor similar to what we bestow upon those who die in combat.  This is dying to preserve our freedoms.

The political division is maddening.  Being a moderate centrist, my views are often overlooked in the echo chambers, it's why you don't see me here posting in this forum very often.  I lurk, but rarely comment.  

The extremes have become the norm.....

That said, I have two young children just entering public schools, and we just had a lockdown at one of our local high schools over a threat of a shooting.  Fortunately, the kid was obviously crying out for help, as he posted his intentions anonymously on social media.  Law enforcement quickly tracked him down, and took him in.  Most of these shooters don't do us this courtesy.  I'm not sure what the solution is, I have my ideas....as others do, but something needs done on the quick.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-15-2018, 12:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think metal detectors in schools makes a lot of sense, but my joke was more along the lines of the powers-that-be not actually caring about stuff like that and the voting public not holding them accountable for it.

I gotcha. I agree with you.  It's like the mess in Congress.  They have an abysmal approval rating, yet keep getting re-elected for a myriad of reasons.  Voter apathy is a HUGE problem, then there's the "it's the other guy, not my rep" mentality, among other factors.

[*Nately120*]

(02-15-2018, 12:58 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I get it, more than you may realize. People react to this sort of environment in different ways and I'm not going to make value judgements on that. How I have been reacting, which has been mostly engaging more in the conversation, being more active in my participation in our democracy, searching for policy solutions, etc., is not what most, or even many, people would do. I may have a breaking point down the road when I see it as hopeless, I'm just not there at this point in time.

I hear ya, I've just lost my mind and have actually been trying to avoid politics and this board for the first time eveeeerrrrrr, as of late.  You are clearly more of the policy guy and I'm more of the marketing/social/why do people think this way sort.  The social aspects of politics at the moment are the most insane I've ever seen them, so my proverbial cheese has slipped off my cracker.

I can honestly see people looking at mass shootings and being convinced more tax cuts for the "job creators" is the solution we need.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-15-2018, 12:58 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I get it, more than you may realize. People react to this sort of environment in different ways and I'm not going to make value judgements on that. How I have been reacting, which has been mostly engaging more in the conversation, being more active in my participation in our democracy, searching for policy solutions, etc., is not what most, or even many, people would do. I may have a breaking point down the road when I see it as hopeless, I'm just not there at this point in time.

This is kinda where I am.  I used to frequent political forums with a passion.  The crux of my apathy comes from not being on one "side" or the other.  If you try to point out a flaw in a position of either side, you're either a "libtard" or a "right-wing nut".  I'm neither.  I see good points in both beliefs, and bad. I went as far as volunteering on a campaign. I seek compromise and common sense and moving forward.  That shit don't look like it's happening any time soon.  In fact, it looks worse and worse by the day.

[BmorePat87]

(02-15-2018, 11:07 AM)Benton Wrote: It’s basic, but as someone who lives 20 miles from heath and 1 from Benton, I still can’t fathom in the 20 years since — and all the shootings between— wjy scgools don’t have metal detectors. Yeah, they foolproof. But it’s a first step. We put them at courthouses and theme parks and capitols but we tell our teachers and students to practice running. That’s the solution suggested. Run.

Do most court houses need to facilitate the movement of 1500-3000 people within the building in a 20 minute span?

With regards to the running part, we have a variety of drill that we practice and none involve just running. 

We have shelter in place for natural disasters. We're not to leave our rooms but we continue teaching.

We have lock downs where we immediately lock the doors, the school doors are locked. We cover our windows, turn our lights off, and get against the wall where you couldn't see from the door. 

We have modified lock downs where we lock the door, cover the windows, and turn the lights off but we can keep teaching.

We have your standard evacuation. We have reverse evacuation where we have to return because of an issue outside.

We lock all outside doors except for the front ones. Our elementary and middle schools lock the front ones and require you to be buzzed in. We have resource officers in our schools. We promote always looking out for anyone who seems out of place.

[*Nately120*]

(02-15-2018, 01:04 PM)Wyche Wrote:  I seek compromise and common sense and moving forward.  That shit don't look like it's happening any time soon.  In fact, it looks worse and worse by the day.

This is where I am, and then some.  I always expect and appreciate the  marketing-aspects of politics, but the similarities between the 2016 election and a damn infomercial are frightening. 

[StLucieBengal]

They need state ran asylums for the mentally ill. That and allow the teachers and admins to have guns. Can easily pay them a stipend to get certified.

I live here in south Florida and I certainly do not want anymore gun control legislation.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-15-2018, 01:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This is where I am, and then some.  I always expect and appreciate the  marketing-aspects of politics, but the similarities between the 2016 election and a damn infomercial are frightening. 

Ain't that the truth.....and the result was a circus sideshow.

[*Nately120*]

(02-15-2018, 01:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They need state ran asylums for the mentally ill.    That and allow the teachers and admins to have guns.  Can easily pay them a stipend to get certified.

I live here in south Florida and I certainly do not want anymore gun control legislation.

Allow teachers to have guns, or require them to?  I'll admit I only know a few teachers, but none of them got into working with kids because they wanted to have to pack heat and/or kill people.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

I think a lot of our issues start in the home......

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(02-15-2018, 01:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They need state ran asylums for the mentally ill. That and allow the teachers and admins to have guns. Can easily pay them a stipend to get certified.

I live here in south Florida and I certainly do not want anymore gun control legislation.

Again, the solution given is MORE guns.

You are complicit.

[BmorePat87]

(02-15-2018, 12:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: My dad related the other day how, at the hardware store when he was a kid, was a barrel of Enfield rifles at the end of one of the aisles.  All you had to do was pick one out of the barrel, put it in your cart and pay for it at the register.  This begs the question, with such easy access to firearms back then, with zero restriction on purchase, did they not have the mass shooting problem back then?  You'd think with the millions of returning WW2 vets with PTSD there'd be a huge pool of candidates for mass shootings, and yet, virtually none.

with population taken into account, they weren't as rare as you'd think.

The 30's had 1 shooting for every 14 million people and the 40's had 1 for every 18 million people compared to the 2000's where it was 1 for every 10 million people.

50s-60s saw lows while the 80s-90s saw highs. Some might blame the access of semi automatic weapons. There have been more since the ban expired, but the number during the ban mirrored those before it, so that might not be the best argument. 

[*Nately120*]

(02-15-2018, 01:35 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Again, the solution given is MORE guns.

You are complicit.

Let's not forget to mention the political faction that wants to cut teacher pay and benefits also wants to task them with stopping maniacal killers with assault rifles.  Why don't we just give up on this war in the middle east stuff and put one person from the army in every classroom in every school in America?  I don't see why the same people who think teachers are a bunch of lazy entitled liberal wimps thinks handing them automatic weapons is going to work.

[StLucieBengal]

Also the browerd sheriff mentioned a good idea of detailing people in mental hospitals against their will if they show signs.

[StLucieBengal]

(02-15-2018, 01:35 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Again, the solution given is MORE guns.

You are complicit.

That’s fine. More guns + clamp down on mental illness. I’m good with that

[StLucieBengal]

(02-15-2018, 01:35 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I think a lot of our issues start in the home......

A lot of broken families out there.

[GMDino]

(02-15-2018, 01:49 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Also the browerd sheriff mentioned a good idea of detailing people in mental hospitals against their will if they show signs.

Again, this is that slippery slope that gun owners fear.

What signs?

Having too many guns?
Yelling at someone?
Cross dressing?

What is a sign that the police should force someone into a mental hospital based on the word of someone else?

Do you trust all doctors to diagnose someone?