Weapons on college campuses

[Belsnickel]

This has been a news item recently in several places, and is being mulled over around the country. So I put it to you: should states allow firearms on public college/university campuses?

I was at an ethics slam last evening hosted by Rotarians and another ethically focused organization that will mean nothing to you and the answers in the poll are what most commonly came up.

[CKwi88]

Can I combine only liscenced conceal carry and not in classrooms?

[fredtoast]

(03-31-2016, 09:26 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Can I combine only liscenced conceal carry and not in classrooms?

If someone has a permit I don't know why it should be banned in a classroom.

I can see why bars and businesses may want to limit the rights of people to carry guns in their establishments, but I don't think it would be a major threat in a classroom setting.

[Belsnickel]

(03-31-2016, 09:26 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Can I combine only liscenced conceal carry and not in classrooms?

I can get that. I didn't think of combining those two.

(03-31-2016, 01:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If someone has a permit I don't know why it should be banned in a classroom.

I can see why bars and businesses may want to limit the rights of people to carry guns in their establishments, but I don't think it would be a major threat in a classroom setting.

So, my team consisted of several faculty members and they brought up that the classrooms supposed to be a safe space for the exchange of ideas. If you introduce even the possibility of a firearm in there, the people, including the instructor, will automatically censor themselves. The academic freedom to express ideas, have heated discussions, these things will be hampered by the possibility of the presence of weaponry. Granted, that possibility exists even if it is illegal, but by allowing it there is a much higher probability.

[*Nately120*]

What if you're in your classroom learning about square roots, or whatever people learn about, and a bear walks in? What then, smartguy?

[Benton]

(04-01-2016, 10:45 AM)Nately120 Wrote: What if you're in your classroom learning about square roots, or whatever people learn about, and a bear walks in?  What then, smartguy?

Nothing you can do. Second Amendment.

He has the right to bear arms.

[Belsnickel]

I noticed that no one is selecting the "only faculty/staff" option. I'm just curious if anyone would like to expand on their thoughts in that regard.

I freely admit that I bounce back and forth on this issue a lot. Being in higher ed as a student, as staff, as someone with close ties to some faculty and a knowledge of that aspect of things, there are a lot of sides to this that I see and often wonder about.

[Benton]

(04-01-2016, 11:35 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I noticed that no one is selecting the "only faculty/staff" option. I'm just curious if anyone would like to expand on their thoughts in that regard.

I freely admit that I bounce back and forth on this issue a lot. Being in higher ed as a student, as staff, as someone with close ties to some faculty and a knowledge of that aspect of things, there are a lot of sides to this that I see and often wonder about.

What makes faculty or staff any more qualified to carry a lethal weapon? Having an art history degree doesn't mean you know basic firearm safety. Being able to explain entropy doesn't give you the ability to pick up a handgun, chamber a round and safely fire it at anything. A firearms course is much more relevant than employment status.

[Bilbo Saggins]

People are so screwy when it comes to stuff like this. A college student is more likely to die by slipping in a bathtub or getting kicked in the head by a donkey than they are to be shot in school. The number of people who die in school shootings in this country is not very high, yet people freak out emotionally as if they are all collectively on some sort of super period. For whatever reason people just love to go crazy while talking about guns and daydream that John Wayne is going to get all of the bad guys if only the law were to get out of the way. It would honestly be more fruitful from a public safety standpoint to campaign for abrasive bathtub floors or safer railings than it would be to try to fix college violence by flooding campuses with guns.

[Belsnickel]

(04-01-2016, 12:04 PM)Benton Wrote: What makes faculty or staff any more qualified to carry a lethal weapon? Having an art history degree doesn't mean you know basic firearm safety. Being able to explain entropy doesn't give you the ability to pick up a handgun, chamber a round and safely fire it at anything. A firearms course is much more relevant than employment status.

What about licensed concealed carry (which it is honestly a joke to get a permit here in Virginia, you can obtain one without ever handling a firearm), but only for faculty/staff? A lot of what was brought up in the faculty/staff argument was the maturity of a 21-23 year old (under 21 can't own/carry a handgun).

(04-01-2016, 12:05 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: People are so screwy when it comes to stuff like this. A college student is more likely to die by slipping in a bathtub or getting kicked in the head by a donkey than they are to be shot in school. The number of people who die in school shootings in this country is not very high, yet people freak out emotionally as if they are all collectively on some sort of super period. For whatever reason people just love to go crazy while talking about guns and daydream that John Wayne is going to get all of the bad guys if only the law were to get out of the way. It would honestly be more fruitful from a public safety standpoint to campaign for abrasive bathtub floors or safer railings than it would be to try to fix college violence by flooding campuses with guns.

So this made me laugh. This was our second conundrum of the night. The first was, essentially, the recent iPhone situation. In the first we discussed how more people die from slipping in their bathtubs than terrorism (we were talking here in the U.S.) and die from coconuts falling on their heads. One of the faculty members has a specialty in intelligence analysis and had recently read these figures. Anyway, knowing the same was true for school shootings, we started off with the same thing in a (somewhat) joking manner.

[fredtoast]

(03-31-2016, 03:49 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, my team consisted of several faculty members and they brought up that the classrooms supposed to be a safe space for the exchange of ideas. If you introduce even the possibility of a firearm in there, the people, including the instructor, will automatically censor themselves. The academic freedom to express ideas, have heated discussions, these things will be hampered by the possibility of the presence of weaponry. Granted, that possibility exists even if it is illegal, but by allowing it there is a much higher probability.

If these people really think like this then they must oppose all types of gun possession in public.  If they hoestly think there will be a problem with people shooting each other in a classroom where physical violence is pretty much non-existent then there is no way they can be in favor of letting people carry guns in cars when road rage is so common.

[Benton]

(04-01-2016, 12:21 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What about licensed concealed carry (which it is honestly a joke to get a permit here in Virginia, you can obtain one without ever handling a firearm), but only for faculty/staff? A lot of what was brought up in the faculty/staff argument was the maturity of a 21-23 year old (under 21 can't own/carry a handgun).

That's a closer discussion and I can see both sides. On the other hand, it's not uncommon to see faculty and staff under 30. To me, there isn't a ton of maturity difference in a 22 year old and a 28 year old. I can see the side of parents feeling safer if only faculty was packing, but parental peace of mind is just fluff. I mean, I'd be fine with my kids carrying because I've taught them, but I wouldn't want them on a campus with your kids carrying because I don't know what you have and haven't taught them.

If anything, I think students would be less likely to use a concealed firearm in a situation. That's just personal opinion though.