Michael Cohen plea

[*PhilHos*]

(08-23-2018, 11:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have yet to say definitively that there was collusion because I don't know. I'm not one that has been jumping the gun on that, especially on Trump himself. I just get baffled at the people who try to say Russia didn't prefer Trump, because there are plenty out there.

It reminds me of all those on the right who said certain Islamic countries and terrorist organizations wanted Obama to be president. There were more people going, "Nuh uh" instead of "Yeah? So what?" 

[*michaelsean*]

(08-23-2018, 02:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it isn't.

I have never once heard of any person or organization who took major steps to help a candidate get elected without letting the candidate know about those steps.

People who go to the cost and/or trouble of influencing an election always want something in return.  So they are going to be 100% sure the candidate knows he is beholden to them for the help.

They thought he would be much better for them and more easily used than Hillary.  That's reward enough.  

[fredtoast]

(08-23-2018, 02:15 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You're forgetting that this presumes that someone like Trump would think he needed the Russians help to get elected. I'm fairly confident Trump thought he could win the presidency and win it doing it HIS way. Sure, he would take help where he could get it, but to think he thought he needed it to the point he needed to return the favor? I don't see it; not with Trump.

Trump thought he was going to lose.  That is why he started preparing for the loss by claiming the voting was "rigged"


No one who is absolutely certain he is going to win claims the voting is rigged.

[fredtoast]

(08-23-2018, 02:22 PM)michaelsean Wrote: They thought he would be much better for them and more easily used than Hillary.  That's reward enough.  

Then why insist on setting up a meeting to discuss how they were going to help him?

[*michaelsean*]

(08-23-2018, 02:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then why insist on setting up a meeting to discuss how they were going to help him?

The one with junior?  

[Belsnickel]

(08-23-2018, 02:18 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It reminds me of all those on the right who said certain Islamic countries and terrorist organizations wanted Obama to be president. There were more people going, "Nuh uh" instead of "Yeah? So what?" 

I think there is a difference when you consider how Russia attempted to influence our elections to get their desired outcomes. Without that action it really is just a "so what?" situation.

[*Nately120*]

(08-23-2018, 02:15 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You're forgetting that this presumes that someone like Trump would think he needed the Russians help to get elected. I'm fairly confident Trump thought he could win the presidency and win it doing it HIS way. Sure, he would take help where he could get it, but to think he thought he needed it to the point he needed to return the favor? I don't see it; not with Trump.

Trump sure spent a lot of time telling voters that the election was "fixed" for someone who thought he was going to win, much less was confident he was going to win.  

[*michaelsean*]

(08-23-2018, 02:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump sure spent a lot of time telling voters that the election was "fixed" for someone who thought he was going to win, much less was confident he was going to win.  

Or wanted to win.  I'll probably go to my death bed believing he never wanted to win.  He wouldn't have admitted to losing as was evidenced by the vote rigging comments, but I don't think he ever believed he'd get the nomination much less win.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-23-2018, 02:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Trump thought he was going to lose.  That is why he started preparing for the loss by claiming the voting was "rigged"


No one who is absolutely certain he is going to win claims the voting is rigged.

(08-23-2018, 02:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Trump sure spent a lot of time telling voters that the election was "fixed" for someone who thought he was going to win, much less was confident he was going to win.  

I think he thought he was going to win. I just see him having the "rigged" argument ready in case he didn't. One could also argue that Trump was clueless enough to legitimately believe that if he didn't win it was because the election was rigged against him.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-23-2018, 02:30 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think there is a difference when you consider how Russia attempted to influence our elections to get their desired outcomes. Without that action it really is just a "so what?" situation.

No, I get the situations aren't exactly the same since Russia tried to influence the election. But, in terms of Russia preferring Trump over Hillary, it's no different.

[*Nately120*]

(08-23-2018, 02:35 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I think he thought he was going to win. I just see him having the "rigged" argument ready in case he didn't. One could also argue that Trump was clueless enough to legitimately believe that if he didn't win it was because the election was rigged against him.

Does that make sense, though?  I mean, who claims something is rigged when they think they are going to win?  Or was he just saying "The election is rigged if I lose, but if I win it's not rigged and it's completely legit."  Oy, it takes a certain type of mindset to believe something is rigged unless it yields the result you want.

ME - AHhhh the NFL is rigged!  What's the point!?
BENGALS WIN THE SUPER BOWL
ME - HOLY crap!  The NFL isn't rigged!


So anyways, Trump said the election is rigged, won the election, and is now suspected of rigging the election. Hmm...nah, nothing odd here. It's all legit.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-23-2018, 02:47 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Or was he just saying "The election is rigged if I lose, but if I win it's not rigged and it's completely legit."  

That's exactly what I think was going through his mind prior to the election results.

[*Nately120*]

(08-23-2018, 02:56 PM)PhilHos Wrote: That's exactly what I think was going through his mind prior to the election results.

What a bunch of self-serving delusion.  I guess we have a president that does truly represent the people.

'Murican Guy: Muruca' is the greatest country!
Other Guy:  Actually, the USA ranks well below #1 in many areas, such as.....
'Murican Guy: Nuh uh!

[*bfine32*]

In my life I'm pretty sure we've never looked for more ways to find that a President didn't win on his own merit than we have Trump:

He lost the popular vote

Comey re-opened Hill's email

The Russians did it

I'm most likely missing a couple.

I'm almost to the point that I will de pulling for a Dem in 2020, just so folks will stop it and get back to topics.

[*Nately120*]

(08-23-2018, 03:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: In my life I'm pretty sure we've never looked for more ways to find that a President didn't win on his own merit than we have Trump:

He lost the popular vote

Comey re-opened Hill's email

The Russians did it

I'm most likely missing a couple.

I'm almost to the point that I will de pulling for a Dem in 2020, just so folks will stop it and get back to topics.

Hell, it sounds like the election was rigged or something.

[Au165]

(08-23-2018, 03:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: In my life I'm pretty sure we've never looked for more ways to find that a President didn't win on his own merit than we have Trump:

He lost the popular vote

Comey re-opened Hill's email

The Russians did it

I'm most likely missing a couple.

I'm almost to the point that I will de pulling for a Dem in 2020, just so folks will stop it and get back to topics.

He wasn't born in the U.S. and therefor not eligible to be President.

[fredtoast]

(08-23-2018, 03:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm almost to the point that I will de pulling for a Dem in 2020, just so folks will stop it and get back to topics.

Funny you never said that when Republicans insisted that Obama just won because he was black and not based on his merits.


And you don't really want to talk about the topics either because whenever anyone tries to disagree with Trump you just claim they are mentally ill.

[*Nately120*]

(08-23-2018, 02:18 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It reminds me of all those on the right who said certain Islamic countries and terrorist organizations wanted Obama to be president. There were more people going, "Nuh uh" instead of "Yeah? So what?" 

Those people must have felt pretty stupid when Obama continued and expanded the war on terror rather than surrendering like so many expected.  It's all good, he got a Nobel Prize, so he must have done the peaceful and wimpy thing after all.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-23-2018, 03:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Those people must have felt pretty stupid when Obama continued and expanded the war on terror rather than surrendering like so many expected.  It's all good, he got a Nobel Prize, so he must have done the peaceful and wimpy thing after all.

This is politics we're talking about; American politics. No one EVER feels stupid. They just forget what they said and/or move on to the next "crisis".

[*Nately120*]

(08-23-2018, 03:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: This is politics we're talking about; American politics. No one EVER feels stupid. They just forget what they said and/or move on to the next "crisis".

In my defense, Obama re-upping the Patriot Act and accepting that Nobel Prize we're the final straws in moving me from an independent who voted democrat to an overly-eager libertarian.