Middle finger protected by the constitution

[GMDino]

https://www.local10.com/news/national/middle-finger-protected-by-the-constitution?fbclid=IwAR2SsUQN-VJBGDinpeGqFGzc2nS3FTo_ZkJt9yZGsPL2Sy7jgjneqrP2a20

Quote:TAYLOR, Mich. - When it comes to the middle finger, police might need a thicker skin.



A federal appeals court says a Michigan woman's constitutional rights were violated when she was handed a speeding ticket after giving the finger to a suburban Detroit officer in 2017. The decision means a lawsuit by Debra Cruise-Gulyas can proceed.

In a 3-0 decision Wednesday, the court said Taylor Officer Matthew Minard "should have known better," even if the driver was rude.


Minard stopped Cruise-Gulyas and wrote her a ticket for a lesser violation. But when that stop was over, Cruise-Gulyas raised her middle finger.


Minard pulled her over again and changed the ticket to a more serious speeding offense.


Cruise-Gulyas sued, saying her free-speech rights and her rights against unreasonable seizure were violated.

Well, that's good to know.  

[*michaelsean*]

I don’t agree with the action but I do agree it should be protected.

[BmorePat87]

[GMDino]

(03-15-2019, 06:48 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I don’t agree with the action but I do agree it should be protected.

Yep.  1A and all that.

[*michaelsean*]

I guess my one question for this case in particular is if he's allowed to do what he did without the middle finger. Can he cite her for a lesser offense, and then afterwards decide he really should have cited her for the more serious? I mean he didn't cite her for giving him the finger he cited her for speeding. Assuming he didn't make the speeding part up, I'm just wondering if this is the right case for this.

[GMDino]

(03-15-2019, 09:24 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I guess my one question for this case in particular is if he's allowed to do what he did without the middle finger.  Can he cite her for a lesser offense, and then afterwards decide he really should have cited her for the more serious?  I mean he didn't cite her for giving him the finger he cited her for speeding. Assuming he didn't make the speeding part up,  I'm just wondering if this is the right case for this.

I don't know the answer to that.  I assume they can say they're going to write a lesser ticket and change their mind before its given to the driver. 

Clearly he was wrong to give her a speeding ticket for giving him the finger.  There's probably another law he could say she broke doing that.

But the basic concept of they can't decided you get another ticket for something else just because you exercised your 1A rights is interesting. 

[*michaelsean*]

(03-15-2019, 09:26 AM)GMDino Wrote: I don't know the answer to that.  I assume they can say they're going to write a lesser ticket and change their mind before its given to the driver. 

Clearly he was wrong to give her a speeding ticket for giving him the finger.  There's probably another law he could say she broke doing that.

But the basic concept of they can't decided you get another ticket for something else just because you exercised your 1A rights is interesting. 

Yeah that seems to muddy the waters a little though.  I mean if she actually did speed is he really violating her rights?  But let's say her name was Lopez, and he gave her the first ticket, and then realized hey wait she's Latino and pulled her over again that would certainly be a no no if it could be proved.  So if that's protected, why not 1A?  Fred may be able to shed some light.

[GMDino]

(03-15-2019, 09:39 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah that seems to muddy the waters a little though.  I mean if she actually did speed is he really violating her rights?  But let's say her name was Lopez, and he gave her the first ticket, and then realized hey wait she's Latino and pulled her over again that would certainly be a no no if it could be proved.  So if that's protected, why not 1A?  Fred may be able to shed some light.

Well those are all separate issues.

If she was actually speeding and the officer decides to NOT give her a ticket for that is he doing his job?  Can he have a change of heart because he's afraid she will tell people he doesn't issue speeding tickets?

And I'm not sure they can just "ask for papers" based on a last name.  Although it might be true and some would LOVE it to be true that is a completely different issue than him changing his mind because of something she said or did. IMHO

[*michaelsean*]

(03-15-2019, 09:44 AM)GMDino Wrote: Well those are all separate issues.

If she was actually speeding and the officer decides to NOT give her a ticket for that is he doing his job?  Can he have a change of heart because he's afraid she will tell people he doesn't issue speeding tickets?

And I'm not sure they can just "ask for papers" based on a last name.  Although it might be true and some would LOVE it to be true that is a completely different issue than him changing his mind because of something she said or did. IMHO

I mean pulled her over to give her a speeding ticket because it dawned on him (5 minutes later for some reason that I can't come up with) that she was Latino and he doesn't like them.  

[GMDino]

(03-15-2019, 09:48 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I mean pulled her over to give her a speeding ticket because it dawned on him (5 minutes later for some reason that I can't come up with) that she was Latino and he doesn't like them.  

That would be hard to prove.  But again separate from this case and her getting an additional ticket for flipping him off.  A ticket not for THAT but for something unrelated.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-15-2019, 10:03 AM)GMDino Wrote: That would be hard to prove.  But again separate from this case and her getting an additional ticket for flipping him off.  A ticket not for THAT but for something unrelated.

Well he radioed it to everybody before he did so.  Yeah it's not a great analogy.  

[*bfine32*]

Next time she needs assistance from a LEO I hope they don't give her the finger

[GMDino]

(03-15-2019, 10:22 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Next time she needs assistance from a LEO I hope they don't give her the finger

I hope so too.  I mean unless they do their job and then do it.  That is totally ok thanks to 1A.

[Bengalzona]

Don't flip off the police.

[GMDino]

(03-15-2019, 02:57 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Don't flip off the police.

...uness they deserve it.  

[Bengalzona]

(03-15-2019, 03:20 PM)GMDino Wrote: ...uness they deserve it.  

If they deserve it, then they are probably shooting at you and you would be better served running.

[GMDino]

(03-15-2019, 03:33 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: If they deserve it, then they are probably shooting at you and you would be better served running.

I dunno.  I've met a lot of people who deserved a good bird flip who weren't shooting at anyone.

[Bengalzona]

(03-15-2019, 03:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: I dunno.  I've met a lot of people who deserved a good bird flip who weren't shooting at anyone.

I dunno. Bird flipping just seems sort of passive-aggressive to me. It's like you are really frustrated at something someone is doing, but you aren't willing to approach them and get up in their face about it.

[BrownAssClown]

[GMDino]

(03-15-2019, 04:07 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I dunno. Bird flipping just seems sort of passive-aggressive to me. It's like you are really frustrated at something someone is doing, but you aren't willing to approach them and get up in their face about it.

I don't think if as passive-aggressive.  I think of it as expressing my feelings about the situation/person.  And even those situations don't require getting up in their face.

It's also how you don't get shot.