Mike Rowe get's it.

[SunsetBengal]

The following is Mike Rowe's response to a letter from a disgruntled viewer, posted on the Mike Rowe page.

[quote][/
Hey Mike

Your constant harping on “work ethic” is growing tiresome. Just because someone’s poor doesn’t mean they’re lazy. The unemployed want to work! And many of those who can’t find work today, didn’t have the benefit of growing up with parents like yours. How can you expect someone with no role model to qualify for one of your scholarships or sign your silly “Sweat Pledge?” Rather than accusing people of not having a work-ethic, why not drop the right-wing propaganda and help them develop one?

Craig P.

Hi Craig, and Happy Sunday!

I’m afraid you’ve overestimated the reach of my foundation, as well as my ability to motivate people I’ve never met. For the record, I don’t believe all poor people are lazy, any more than I believe all rich people are greedy. But I can understand why so many do.

Everyday on the news, liberal pundits and politicians portray the wealthy as greedy, while conservative pundits and politicians portray the poor as lazy. Democrats have become so good at denouncing greed, Republicans now defend it. And Republicans are so good at condemning laziness, Democrats are now denying it even exists. It's a never ending dance that gets more contorted by the day.

A few weeks ago in Georgetown, President Obama accused Fox News of “perpetuating a false narrative” by consistently calling poor people “lazy.” Fox News denied the President’s accusation, claiming to have only criticized policies, not people. Unfortunately for Fox, The Daily Show has apparently gained access to the Internet, and after a ten-second google-search and a few minutes in the edit bay, John Stewart was on the air with a devastating montage of Fox personnel referring to the unemployed as “sponges,” “leeches,” “freeloaders,” and “mooches.” http://www.washingtonpost.com/…/daily-shows-jon-stewart-bu…/

Over the next few days, the echo chamber got very noisy. The Left howled about the bias at Fox and condemned the one-percent, while the Right shrieked about the bias at MSNBC and bemoaned the growing entitlement state. But through all the howling and shrieking, no one said a word about the millions of jobs that American companies are struggling to fill right now. No one talked the fact that most of those jobs don’t require an expensive four-year degree. And no one mentioned the 1.2 trillion dollars of outstanding student loans, or the madness of lending money we don’t have to kids who can’t pay it back, educating them for jobs that no longer exist.

I started mikeroweWORKS to talk about these issues, and shine a light on a few million good jobs that no one seems excited about. But mostly, I wanted to remind people that real opportunity still exists for those individuals who are willing to work hard, learn a skill, and make a persuasive case for themselves. Sadly, you see my efforts as “right wing propaganda.” But why? Are our differences really political? Or is it something deeper? Something philosophical?

You wrote that, “people want to work.” In my travels, I’ve met a lot of hard-working individuals, and I’ve been singing their praises for the last 12 years. But I’ve seen nothing that would lead me to agree with your generalization. From what I’ve seen of the species, and what I know of myself, most people - given the choice - would prefer NOT to work. In fact, on Dirty Jobs, I saw Help Wanted signs in every state, even at the height of the recession. Is it possible you see the existence of so many unfilled jobs as a challenge to your basic understanding of what makes people tick?

Last week at a policy conference in Mackinac, I talked to several hiring managers from a few of the largest companies in Michigan. They all told me the same thing - the biggest under reported challenge in finding good help, (aside from the inability to “piss clean,”) is an overwhelming lack of “soft skills.” That’s a polite way of saying that many applicants don’t tuck their shirts in, or pull their pants up, or look you in the eye, or say things like “please” and “thank you.” This is not a Michigan problem - this is a national crisis. We’re churning out a generation of poorly educated people with no skill, no ambition, no guidance, and no realistic expectations of what it means to go to work.

These are the people you’re talking about Craig, and their number grows everyday. I understand you would like me to help them, but how? I’m not a mentor, and my foundation doesn’t do interventions. Do you really want me to stop rewarding individual work ethic, just because I don’t have the resources to assist those who don’t have any? If I’m unable to help everyone, do you really want me to help no one?

My goals are modest, and they’ll remain that way. I don’t focus on groups. I focus on individuals who are eager to do whatever it takes to get started. People willing to retool, retrain, and relocate. That doesn’t mean I have no empathy for those less motivated. It just means I’m more inclined to subsidize the cost of training for those who are. That shouldn’t be a partisan position, but if it is, I guess I’ll just have to live with it.

Mike

PS. The Sweat Pledge wasn’t supposed to be partisan either, but it’s probably annoyed as many people as its inspired. I still sell them for $12, and the money still goes to mikeroweWORKS. You can get one here, even if you’re not applying for a scholarship. http://profoundlydisconnected.com/foundation/poster/

PPS. If you’d like Craig, I’ll autograph one for you!
quote]

[fredtoast]

(12-20-2015, 01:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote:

Quote: But through all the howling and shrieking, no one said a word about the millions of jobs that American companies are struggling to fill right now. No one talked the fact that most of those jobs don’t require an expensive four-year degree. 

No one is talking about them because there is no evidence they exist. Please show me where these "millions" of unfilled jobs are andI will line up people to fill them myself.

Every major city in America has at least one temporary job servive with WAITING LISTS of people who want jobs.  Every county in the country has an unemployment office with lines of people looking for work.

The claim that there are millions of empty jobs that can not be filled is a complete lie.
Pretty simple to prove me wrong.  Justr show me these jobs.

[Au165]

(12-21-2015, 12:52 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No one is talking about them because there is no evidence they exist. Please show me where these "millions" of unfilled jobs are andI will line up people to fill them myself.

Every major city in America has at least one temporary job servive with WAITING LISTS of people who want jobs.  Every county in the country has an unemployment office with lines of people looking for work.

The claim that there are millions of empty jobs that can not be filled is a complete lie.
Pretty simple to prove me wrong.  Justr show me these jobs.

Fred, my wife was a recruiter for a large company in Cincinnati. They constantly had 50+ openings for things such as drivers, call center workers, and other "non skilled" labor jobs. There was constant turnover because people didn't show up to work, and they were tough to fill because people couldn't pass back ground check or drug tests. My father is the president of a different company and he has told me the same story there.

Some people may want to work, but they also want to do drugs or do other things that preclude them from working. Others may want to work, but don't want to conform to the schedule they must be on in order to work (shifts or being on time). Then there are those who want to work and should be able to but can't find a job. All three exist and to deny they do is naive on all parts.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(12-21-2015, 12:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: Fred, my wife was a recruiter for a large company in Cincinnati. They constantly had 50+ openings for things such as drivers, call center workers, and other "non skilled" labor jobs. There was constant turnover because people didn't show up to work, and they were tough to fill because people couldn't pass back ground check or drug tests. My father is the president of a different company and he has told me the same story there.

Some people may want to work, but they also want to do drugs or do other things that preclude them from working. Others may want to work, but don't want to conform to the schedule they must be on in order to work (shifts or being on time). Then there are those who want to work and should be able to but can't find a job. All three exist and to deny they do is naive on all parts.

Which companies?

[Belsnickel]

(12-21-2015, 12:52 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No one is talking about them because there is no evidence they exist. Please show me where these "millions" of unfilled jobs are andI will line up people to fill them myself.

Every major city in America has at least one temporary job servive with WAITING LISTS of people who want jobs.  Every county in the country has an unemployment office with lines of people looking for work.

The claim that there are millions of empty jobs that can not be filled is a complete lie.
Pretty simple to prove me wrong.  Justr show me these jobs.

There are empty jobs, though my statement will be contrary to what Au is saying. The jobs Mike is talking about are skilled positions. They may not require a four year degree, but they do often require a trade school and/or a legitimate apprenticeship. These are things that are lacking in this country. There are things being done in an attempt to correct it, but for so many of these positions there are no longer enough people qualified to take on the role. Where I work, for instance, we have two jobs that have been open for over a month that require such skills, but they haven't had enough qualified applicants apply to even close the jobs and have interviews.

There are unskilled jobs that pay a pittance all over the place that people sneer at, and there are skilled jobs that pay better that people aren't qualified for. At least that's what I have been seeing based upon job openings in my area.

[Au165]

(12-21-2015, 01:46 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: Which companies?

My wife worked at AAA. It looks like they have 40+ jobs open in Cincinnati right now which is there normal amount it seems. Some of the ones listed currently do require a degree, but most aren't and those ones that aren't will stay open constantly as they keep cycling through people.

http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=aaa&l=Ohio

[Au165]

Kind of a side note, but has anyone ever noticed how many job openings for truck drivers there are? It seems like some companies are literally begging people based on how many ads there are. I get that the hours and lifestyle may suck for some, but a lot of them pay 50k plus and will get you trained to get your CDL. Seems like that would be a good route for someone to at least get started in life if you were lacking skills then kind of move on from there.

[Belsnickel]

(12-21-2015, 04:12 PM)Au165 Wrote: Kind of a side note, but has anyone ever noticed how many job openings for truck drivers there are? It seems like some companies are literally begging people based on how many ads there are. I get that the hours and lifestyle may suck for some, but a lot of them pay 50k plus and will get you trained to get your CDL. Seems like that would be a good route for someone to at least get started in life if you were lacking skills then kind of move on from there.

I see a lot of openings around here for people with CDLs. I used to have a Class III EVOC license and so it wouldn't have taken me much to get mine, I just hate driving.

[Au165]

(12-21-2015, 04:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I see a lot of openings around here for people with CDLs. I used to have a Class III EVOC license and so it wouldn't have taken me much to get mine, I just hate driving.

I think that really is the issue. It is a tough job to do, but demand is outrageous and I read that salaries could be going as high as 70k soon because of the demand.

[Se ky bengal]

(12-21-2015, 04:27 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think that really is the issue. It is a tough job to do, but demand is outrageous and I read that salaries could be going as high as 70k soon because of the demand.

That's my plan, after mining and my daughter is out of high school.  Get my CDL's and just drive state to state. 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-21-2015, 04:27 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think that really is the issue. It is a tough job to do, but demand is outrageous and I read that salaries could be going as high as 70k soon because of the demand.

The problem, aside from the hours away from home.  To be a truck driver, you need to be clean, pass a test, should ANY event ever occur while driving.  You have to have strict discipline to follow company rules, as many trucks have not only dash cams, but in-cab cams as well.  But, yes one can make really decent money driving a truck.  My father in law has been driving for over 25 yrs.  He makes over 120K.  But, he will be the first to say that it takes a serious work ethic and discipline to get to the point of making really good money.  Most of the drivers that get hired at his company, Linde, either quit or are forced to leave for one reason or another.  He trains new drivers, for the company, he says that most that have the physical skills to do the job simply won't submit to random drug testing, refuse to follow company policy, and therefore can't be on the company insurance.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-21-2015, 02:20 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: There are empty jobs, though my statement will be contrary to what Au is saying. The jobs Mike is talking about are skilled positions. They may not require a four year degree, but they do often require a trade school and/or a legitimate apprenticeship. These are things that are lacking in this country. There are things being done in an attempt to correct it, but for so many of these positions there are no longer enough people qualified to take on the role. Where I work, for instance, we have two jobs that have been open for over a month that require such skills, but they haven't had enough qualified applicants apply to even close the jobs and have interviews.

There are unskilled jobs that pay a pittance all over the place that people sneer at, and there are skilled jobs that pay better that people aren't qualified for. At least that's what I have been seeing based upon job openings in my area.

You are accurate, about many of those jobs requiring some degree of training.  Fortunately, the Community College system in the US is constantly adapting it's curriculum offerings to include training for whatever the job market is lacking in their particular locale.  Additionally, many companies train in house, or even pay for outsource schooling, should an employee show a desire and aptitude for a particular job that requires specialized skills.

The best part, most community colleges tuition is completely covered through Pell Grants.  Many community colleges offer courses at night, for those that are currently day-time employed.  As you can tell, I am completely sold on the community college system, after my experience there, in my 40's.  The A.A.S. that I earned in mid-life has given me a marketable skill, that has landed me gainful employment with a bright future.

[Belsnickel]

(12-21-2015, 10:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You are accurate, about many of those jobs requiring some degree of training.  Fortunately, the Community College system in the US is constantly adapting it's curriculum offerings to include training for whatever the job market is lacking in their particular locale.  Additionally, many companies train in house, or even pay for outsource schooling, should an employee show a desire and aptitude for a particular job that requires specialized skills.

The best part, most community colleges tuition is completely covered through Pell Grants.  Many community colleges offer courses at night, for those that are currently day-time employed.  As you can tell, I am completely sold on the community college system, after my experience there, in my 40's.  The A.A.S. that I earned in mid-life has given me a marketable skill, that has landed me gainful employment with a bright future.

Oh, I am all for it. I am for an overall revamping of our education system where we focus more on trying to guide children in the right direction. For instance, the education system in Germany. After primary there are three, some places four, types of schools. They fous on different things. One goes for blue collar, one for things like business or nursing, and one for a more academic focus. There are criticisms of course, but just because you go a certain route doesn't mean you can't go on to university. And there are schools beyond for more skilled trades. The system works well but we have an attitude here that would make it incompatible.

The concept of the American Dream, or at least how it is interpreted today, makes this an impossibility. So many parents think their little snowflake is so special and better than other snowflakes and they need to go to college and get a degree, any degree, because that will improve their station and everyone needs to go to college because that will get you lots of money. The idea that everyone needs to go to college is the most damaging thing to our society right now, IMHO. And this is coming from someone whose livelihood is dependent on people going to college.

[fredtoast]

(12-21-2015, 12:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: Fred, my wife was a recruiter for a large company in Cincinnati. They constantly had 50+ openings for things such as drivers, call center workers, and other "non skilled" labor jobs. There was constant turnover because people didn't show up to work, and they were tough to fill because people couldn't pass back ground check or drug tests. My father is the president of a different company and he has told me the same story there.

Some people may want to work, but they also want to do drugs or do other things that preclude them from working. Others may want to work, but don't want to conform to the schedule they must be on in order to work (shifts or being on time). Then there are those who want to work and should be able to but can't find a job. All three exist and to deny they do is naive on all parts.

Yet all of those jobs were always filled, and I'll bet more people applied for them that were hired.

In my experience whenever their is a job opening more people apply than get hired.  It is not like there are that many jobs sitting empty.

BTW you can alwasy teel who's version of the story you arew getting when every single job opening is due to people not wanti g to work and there is never a job opening due to a person getting a better job, or having health problems, or moving to a different location, or having a child, or get married.  People leave jobs for all sorts of reasons, but the people who make up the lie about "millions of empty jobs" always blame it on people being lazy.

[fredtoast]

(12-21-2015, 04:02 PM)Au165 Wrote: My wife worked at AAA. It looks like they have 40+ jobs open in Cincinnati right now which is there normal amount it seems. Some of the ones listed currently do require a degree, but most aren't and those ones that aren't will stay open constantly as they keep cycling through people.

http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=aaa&l=Ohio

Read the comments to understand why they really have high turnover.  for example....


I was hired as a part-time driving instructor in July, 2013, as were several other people. I completed the basic requirements, such as getting a physical, etc and waited....and waited....and waited.....In October, 2013, I was sent to "advanced driving instructor" class and passed....and waited.....and waited......and waited.....I (along with others) was told that the DMV was holding everything up. Come to find out the manager of the driving school was the one who was holding everything up. By the time they got around to getting us certified through the DMV, we would have had to get new physicals again. They are short driving instructors....I wonder why?

[*Nately120*]

Just because a job isn't being filled it doesn't mean the entire populace is lazy. For example, I am unmarried. I'm not unmarried because women are too lazy to marry me, I'm unmarried because being married to me would be absolute hell on earth.

On a lighter note, I think we have an interesting society where we condemn people for being too lazy to get jobs as telemarketers, cashiers, and other bottom-of-the-barrel service jobs but still treat people that DO take these jobs with as much seething disdain as possible.

[Au165]

(12-22-2015, 01:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yet all of those jobs were always filled, and I'll bet more people applied for them that were hired.

In my experience whenever their is a job opening more people apply than get hired.  It is not like there are that many jobs sitting empty.

BTW you can alwasy teel who's version of the story you arew getting when every single job opening is due to people not wanti g to work and there is never a job opening due to a person getting a better job, or having health problems, or moving to a different location, or having a child, or get married.  People leave jobs for all sorts of reasons, but the people who make up the lie about "millions of empty jobs" always blame it on people being lazy.

All the jobs weren't always filled, in fact many never closed because they never got to full capacity EVER. There are thousands and thousands of truck driving jobs across the country that have remained open for long periods of time, in fact as of last year there were 235k trucking positions that were unfilled. There are jobs out there for those willing to be open to what they do, where they work, and when they work. If they aren't looking to work, then they aren't really relevant in this discussion. If they want to work then they need to understand that they don't set the "rules", you have to conform to the "rules" given by the potential employer. If you can't find a job because you don't want to conform then that is that persons issue not anyone else.

As for your little jab at the end, I am giving you a view from someone who hired people for a living. I never said ALL the turnover was for one reason, I did say that there was constant turnover because of those issues which is factual. If you want to ignore real life accounts for your own opinion on the situation that is fine, however I am simply giving you a real life example. Whats your background in recruiting and hiring, directly that is, not things people who didn't get jobs told you?

[Au165]

(12-22-2015, 01:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Read the comments to understand why they really have high turnover.  for example....


I was hired as a part-time driving instructor in July, 2013, as were several other people. I completed the basic requirements, such as getting a physical, etc and waited....and waited....and waited.....In October, 2013, I was sent to "advanced driving instructor" class and passed....and waited.....and waited......and waited.....I (along with others) was told that the DMV was holding everything up. Come to find out the manager of the driving school was the one who was holding everything up. By the time they got around to getting us certified through the DMV, we would have had to get new physicals again. They are short driving instructors....I wonder why?

Gotcha, anonymous review makes argument valid. Maybe they are giving the whole picture, maybe they aren't. It's not like an ex employee would ever say negative things not realizing their own role in their departure or lack of success in a company. Even if true, if you really need a job, is a bad anonymous review stopping you from applying and going through the hiring process?

On a side note: AAA has consistently been voted one of the best places to work in Cincinnati.

[Benton]

(12-21-2015, 02:20 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: There are empty jobs, though my statement will be contrary to what Au is saying. The jobs Mike is talking about are skilled positions. They may not require a four year degree, but they do often require a trade school and/or a legitimate apprenticeship. These are things that are lacking in this country. There are things being done in an attempt to correct it, but for so many of these positions there are no longer enough people qualified to take on the role. Where I work, for instance, we have two jobs that have been open for over a month that require such skills, but they haven't had enough qualified applicants apply to even close the jobs and have interviews.

There are unskilled jobs that pay a pittance all over the place that people sneer at, and there are skilled jobs that pay better that people aren't qualified for. At least that's what I have been seeing based upon job openings in my area.

That seems to be what's happening, just from my observations.

I think a lot of it is the balance between education and getting a degree. I had an intern once who has since graduated with a journalism degree from a pretty solid J school. And the person couldn't write for anything. Couldn't take notes. Didn't know how to source material or vette a source. Didn't know anything about the software most of the print industry uses. Had never used a camera outside of their phone. I asked casually what the bulk of the 4 years were? General studies and liable laws.

The person had spent somewhere around $70-80,000 getting a degree and whoever hired them would have to teach them everything. It's ridiculous. As the guy who would get stuck with part of that training, I'd rather hire somebody off the street with no degree and no bad habits who is at least teachable.

We've got lots of people with low skill or no skill that don't have the training for jobs like Mike's talking about (I think) because we don't teach kids skills. We teach them a butt load of general information that may or may not have anything to do with being able to do a job.

[Au165]

(12-22-2015, 03:55 PM)Benton Wrote: We've got lots of people with low skill or no skill that don't have the training for jobs like Mike's talking about (I think) because we don't teach kids skills. We teach them a butt load of general information that may or may not have anything to do with being able to do a job.

This is a big issue. Degrees seem to be nothing more than check boxes on applications anymore. You don't have to actually know anything, just have a piece of paper showing you were willing to spend 4 years trying to learn something.