Mike says Dalton should "re-establish himself" but FO needs to establish themselves

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 12:58 AM)Whatever Wrote: Whit turned out to be a a great pickup, but the odds were way against it due to his age and injury history.

Sullivan sucks.  He had a 52.7 PFF grade last year, significantly worse than Bobby Hart.  But you're trying to spin this scrub as a quality FA signing.  There's a reason he's still unemployed.

Woods was a B tier FA that exceeded expectations.  He never topped 700 yards or 5 TD's before signing with the Rams.  Sanu got slightly more per year than Woods.

Out of all those guys, you basically had two good pickups, and both of those have performed at a higher level than you reasonably could have expected.

And Woods had over 1200 yards receiving last year. He's a good illustration though that there are guys out there that you can sign for value that turn into stars.

And what were out 2 Good pickups this year? What were our 2 Good pickups this year? Hart, Webb, and/or Miller?

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 10:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: A scout probably doesn't have the skills needed to be a coach, but if a coach does not have the skills to evaluate talent he will be a failure as a coach.

A coaching staff should be involved in the scouting process some, but not the primary scouts. Really Belicheck is a genius, AND the Patriots still have a huge Player Personnel Dept. Why is that the case if Belicheck could do it all?

[Socal Bengals fan]

(05-12-2019, 10:23 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: His way is not a successful. We have learned that over the last 27 years.

Shhh. This is our year damn it.

[Whatever]

(05-13-2019, 10:42 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And Woods had over 1200 yards receiving last year. He's a good illustration though that there are guys out there that you can sign for value that turn into stars.

And what were out 2 Good pickups this year? What were our 2 Good pickups this year? Hart, Webb, and/or Miller?

Well, John Miller would be equivalent to Woods at the time of his signing ie: an average starter for the Buffalo Bills.  If Webb plays like he did in the slot last year for the Giants, he would be a good pick up.  Not Whit good, but still good.

The issue is you use much tougher criteria to grade our FA's than you are other team's pick ups.  That's obvious when you're pimping trash like Sullivan.

[Joelist]

How about giving ZT a legitimate chance to succeed? Going from one thread to another being morose and trying to put down anything positive and/or act like nothing could possibly be different with Zac is unfair to him and really just makes one miserable.

Go out, enjoy the birds and the trees, hang out with friends and have a good time together. And let ZT do his thing and wait until actual games have been played before being the downer.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 01:05 PM)Whatever Wrote: Well, John Miller would be equivalent to Woods at the time of his signing ie: an average starter for the Buffalo Bills.  If Webb plays like he did in the slot last year for the Giants, he would be a good pick up.  Not Whit good, but still good.

The issue is you use much tougher criteria to grade our FA's than you are other team's pick ups.  That's obvious when you're pimping trash like Sullivan.

Sullivan may have been bad last year, but the year before he was good:

Rams OL Whitworth and Sullivan proving their value

Sullivan currently ranks 15th among centers with an overall grade of 68.6. However, since a brutal Rams debut in which he earned a game grade of 40.4, he has been very good. This past week against the Cowboys Sullivan earned the fifth-highest grade among centers of the week with a game grade of 80.3.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-rams-ol-whitworth-and-sullivan-proving-their-value

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 01:05 PM)Whatever Wrote: Well, John Miller would be equivalent to Woods at the time of his signing ie: an average starter for the Buffalo Bills.  If Webb plays like he did in the slot last year for the Giants, he would be a good pick up.  Not Whit good, but still good.

The issue is you use much tougher criteria to grade our FA's than you are other team's pick ups.  That's obvious when you're pimping trash like Sullivan.

Yeah Sullivan is terrible. His PFF Grade last year was 52.7.

Billy Price's PFF Grade: 49.4!

Russell Bodine: 61.6! 

[depthchart]

(05-10-2019, 08:47 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'll never forget Mike saying "we haven't had a record that's unacceptable" in reference to a 5 year span with an overall losing record. 

Considering this quote, that 5 year playoff run probably feels like a dynasty to Mike.

(05-11-2019, 08:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: In Cincy, you make the playoffs and lose and they write articles on the main team website about how they have developed a model that other teams will copy.

So in short, Mike likely feels that he has "established" himself yet calls for Dalton to "re-establish" himself.

Yet Dalton was the QB for the 5 year playoff run that "probably feels like a Dynasty to Mike" and Dalton was the QB during the best years of the "model that other teams will copy".

Given all of this, just how good will Dalton have to play to actually "re-establish" himself in Mike's eyes and get extended ?

[Shake n Blake]

(05-13-2019, 12:31 AM)Whatever Wrote: Seriously? 

Hall was 30 and had two blown Achilles when the Bengals let him walk.  He was out of the league entirely last year.

Marvin was a good player in his prime, but he himself said he wanted to leave so he could be a #1 WR.  That wasn't happening here because we have AJ Green.  He's had one 1,000 yard season in his career.

Sanu crapped the bed in his contract year, with only 394 receiving yards and no TD's.  He's rebounded into a solid #3, but he's a complimentary piece, not a guy you build around.

Whit was 35 and nobody believed he'd be able to hold off father time as well as he has.

Zeitler was just traded because he was insanely overpaid.

Reggie was 32 when he left.  He's sitting out there unemployed right now if you still want him, although I think you would quantify him as a typical Bengals bargain bin signing.

Pretty sure he meant Joseph, but Hall was with the Raiders last year.

(05-13-2019, 12:43 AM)Whatever Wrote: Well, Barwin, Webster, and Sullivan are all unemployed right now.  Woods was frankly very cheap for a guy they immediately penciled in as a starting WR.  Whit was really the only one you wouldn't see them making between money and age.  

It's just funny that someone is considering these guys quality free agents when two were scrubs, one was washed up and only decent to begin with, one was about a top Bengals FA move, and one was a massive gamble due to age and injury history.

Whether or not those guys are out of the league now means very little when talking about 2017. They were relevant players at the time, and considered decent signings. Whit's money alone is something we don't do with exterior free agents. Those other guys, like I said, would be jewels of a Bengals FA class, unfortunately.

I don't think the Rams turned it around primarily due to those signings...I definitely give McVay and his staff most of that credit, but I would like to see a free agency where we signed one really good player and several decent ones. We have not had a free agency of that caliber since 2003.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 03:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Pretty sure he meant Joseph, but Hall was with the Raiders last year.


Whether or not those guys are out of the league now means very little when talking about 2017. They were relevant players at the time, and considered decent signings. Whit's money alone is something we don't do with exterior free agents. Those other guys, like I said, would be jewels of a Bengals FA class, unfortunately.

I don't think the Rams turned it around primarily due to those signings...I definitely give McVay and his staff most of that credit, but I would like to see a free agency where we signed one really good player and several decent ones. We have not had a free agency of that caliber since 2003.

Yep. Here's an article about how Whitworth and Sullivan revamped the Rams offensive line. Sullivan absolutely played well in 2017.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-rams-ol-whitworth-and-sullivan-proving-their-value

[depthchart]

(05-13-2019, 03:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't think the Rams turned it around primarily due to those signings...I definitely give McVay and his staff most of that credit, but I would like to see a free agency where we signed one really good player and several decent ones. We have not had a free agency of that caliber since 2003.

(05-13-2019, 03:17 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yep. Here's an article about how Whitworth and Sullivan revamped the Rams offensive line. Sullivan absolutely played well in 2017.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-rams-ol-whitworth-and-sullivan-proving-their-value

There was also Ndamukong Suh ?

The Rams brought him in to play next to Aaron Donald.

Zac likely won't be able to get Suh here the way Mcvay did with the Rams but Suh would be nice to have next to Geno (yet likely expensive)

Suh is still on the open market.

[Whatever]

(05-13-2019, 01:27 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Sullivan may have been bad last year, but the year before he was good:

Rams OL Whitworth and Sullivan proving their value

Sullivan currently ranks 15th among centers with an overall grade of 68.6. However, since a brutal Rams debut in which he earned a game grade of 40.4, he has been very good. This past week against the Cowboys Sullivan earned the fifth-highest grade among centers of the week with a game grade of 80.3.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-rams-ol-whitworth-and-sullivan-proving-their-value

Lol....an article from 4 weeks into the season that also points out that he dropped a total turd of a game.  Can't argue with that, I guess.

So since you buy into the Rams FA philosophy, I guess you must think the Bengals should be throwing a bunch of money on guys over 30 that have almost no tread left on the tires, but have some name recognition?

[Whatever]

(05-13-2019, 01:28 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah Sullivan is terrible. His PFF Grade last year was 52.7.

Billy Price's PFF Grade: 49.4!

Russell Bodine: 61.6! 

Most people will admit Price sucked last year.  We hope he gets better, but he was crap.  So was Sullivan.  What's your point?

[Whatever]

(05-13-2019, 03:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Pretty sure he meant Joseph, but Hall was with the Raiders last year.


Whether or not those guys are out of the league now means very little when talking about 2017. They were relevant players at the time, and considered decent signings. Whit's money alone is something we don't do with exterior free agents. Those other guys, like I said, would be jewels of a Bengals FA class, unfortunately.

I don't think the Rams turned it around primarily due to those signings...I definitely give McVay and his staff most of that credit, but I would like to see a free agency where we signed one really good player and several decent ones. We have not had a free agency of that caliber since 2003.

It's hard to say what he meant.  He mentioned Whitworth twice, for Pete's sake.

The point is that most of those were James Harrison/Karlos Dansby type signings of 30+ year old names with little to nothing left.  We routinely crap on those type of signings, but because someone else did it, they are great moves.

[Catmandude123]

(05-13-2019, 04:16 PM)Whatever Wrote: Lol....an article from 4 weeks into the season that also points out that he dropped a total turd of a game.  Can't argue with that, I guess.

So since you buy into the Rams FA philosophy, I guess you must think the Bengals should be throwing a bunch of money on guys over 30 that have almost no tread left on the tires, but have some name recognition?

I would buy into any philosophy that takes us to the Super Bowl because the philosophy they have had for twenty seven years ain't getting us there.

[Catmandude123]

(05-13-2019, 03:41 PM)depthchart Wrote: There was also Ndamukong Suh ?

The Rams brought him in to play next to Aaron Donald.

Zac likely won't be able to get Suh here the way Mcvay did with the Rams but Suh would be nice to have next to Geno (yet likely expensive)

Suh is still on the open market.

What I don't understand is how teams like the Rams can have the highest paid RB and DT and still have money in the bank for top FAs like Whitworth, Suh ect. ? If we have the same money as they do why can they buy lavishly in free agency and all we do is resign Bobby Hart types.

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 06:44 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I would buy into any philosophy that takes us to the Super Bowl because the philosophy they have had for twenty seven years ain't getting us there.

Haven't you heard the news? We've been league average under Marvin! Right at .500. Playoff wins don't matter! 

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 06:52 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: What I don't understand is how teams like the Rams can have the highest paid RB and DT and still have money in the bank for top FAs like Whitworth, Suh ect. ? If we have the same money as they do why can they buy lavishly in free agency and all we do is resign Bobby Hart types.

We had $50+ million in cap space and our external free agents were Hart, Webb, and Miller.   

[Catmandude123]

(05-13-2019, 07:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We had $50+ million in cap space and our external free agents were Hart, Webb, and Miller.   

It a new DEY and all we can hope for is that with a new coach and new attitude better days are around the corner. 

[THE PISTONS]

(05-13-2019, 08:55 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: It a new DEY and all we can hope for is that with a new coach and new attitude better days are around the corner. 

It's more like SAME Management Philosophy + New Coaches = ?.

We'll get to see if Marvin was the issue like some have speculated I suppose because a lot of other variables stayed the same.