Military Will Be Used To Protect Border

[Belsnickel]

(04-03-2018, 09:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: How is this good for Trump's personal interests and not the country?

In all seriousness, this 72-hour tirade on immigration is a direct response to negative press on Fox News. His base, ever since he signed the omnibus, has been saying things about him abandoning them because he didn't get anything for border security. He sees this negative press and then goes on this push to turn that around. Now? His base is back to slobbering.

The actual benefits of the move can be debated. When you look at the policy implications it gets complex. But it can't be dismissed that immediate effects are more positive to him than anything else, especially since his ranting was erroneous on its face.

[THE Bigzoman]

(04-03-2018, 10:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Good!  Maybe if we throw some rich white men in jail for doing this stuff then people will take notice.  Maybe I'm just harder on crime than you are since I want to punish people who provide monetary incentive for rapists and criminals to walk the streets of my county instead of hiring hard working tax paying citizens.  My god, I'm so cruel!  Punishing people who make this country a worse place and endanger others in order to make more money...how dare I ever suggest we punish them!

Damn, who is the soft-hearted, criminal-loving liberal now?




Past actions matter.  Maybe you think we should let sex offenders work in schools, too.  Oh, it's in the past, they're good now!  Why not just give the illegals amnesty and forgive all their raping and killing because it was in the past?  Why hold anyone accountable for anything?  More liberal bs.  This is why I can't stand either major party.  Both of them just LOVE to go easy on their own favorite criminals while honest people pick up the check, don't get the job because some rapist got it to save Trump some money, and/or get raped by the people Trump lured here.

Trump himself has told us how dangerous these people are.  Do you really think 0% of the illegals he hired and enticed to stay in our country committed crimes?   Building a wall isn't going to undo what those illegals he brought here did to honest American citizens.  Again, you are just more forgiving than I am, because I like to see people who harm this country be held accountable for the things they do...not make excuses for them and get all weepy when someone suggests they be punished.

i just don't see how we're doing the Mexican people any favors by not ramping up enforcement at all levels.

Revolutions are usually driven by people worse off in a society, and everyone and their mom knows Mexico is stupidly corrupt. How do we help the situation by being a political pressure valve for Mexican politicians? The worse things get, we just get more refugees (that's what they are) crossing the border and hey, revolution averted!

[Dill]

(04-03-2018, 09:49 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: How is this good for Trump's personal interests and not the country?

What do you mean by "this"?  Building a wall? Stoking racist fear in general? A specific policy?

Becoming president has certainly enhanced the business interests that he, unlike previous presidents, did not divest.
Same for Jared and Ivanka, whom he made WH staff despite their lack of qualifications.

And he became president by appealing to people's darkest worst instincts, and keeps his base together with a daily dump of disinformation.

How is any of this good for the country?

[GMDino]

(04-04-2018, 08:47 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: In all seriousness, this 72-hour tirade on immigration is a direct response to negative press on Fox News. His base, ever since he signed the omnibus, has been saying things about him abandoning them because he didn't get anything for border security. He sees this negative press and then goes on this push to turn that around. Now? His base is back to slobbering.

The actual benefits of the move can be debated. When you look at the policy implications it gets complex. But it can't be dismissed that immediate effects are more positive to him than anything else, especially since his ranting was erroneous on its face.

Also a Fox News commentator advocated for it the night before.

Note: This is a VERY biased site, but it has the video clip of Tucker's show on the page.  And since they admit to being biased it's okay...right?  

https://crooksandliars.com/2018/04/tucker-carlson-demands-military-be-sent

Quote:During a press opportunity earlier today Donald Trump said he was going to send the United States Military to the U.S.-Mexico border to stop the hoards of caravans moving from Honduras through Mexico to the United States border.


Should those people make it that far, they may then beg for asylum, which will surely be denied.


You may wonder where the idea for that came from? Last night Tucker Carlson "debated" Center for Immigration Studies’ Jessica Vaughan, who advocates for more humane immigration policy.


“So 60,000 Americans died last year from drug abuse and most of those drugs came from Mexico,” he lied. “They are a hostile country. They are abetting the movement of these people here. Would it be possible to send the military to our border? Honestly, why is this not a hostile act against our country?”


For the record, the drugs killing Americans aren't coming from Mexico. They're coming from pharmaceutical companies and doctors' prescriptions.



The idea here is to declare Mexico as a "hostile foreign power" so we can deploy our military to the border since Congress won't pay for a wall. Wasn't it nice of Tucker Carlson to demand that of Trump? And wasn't it nice of Trump to comply?

I am STUNNED I tells ya!  

[BFritz21]

(04-04-2018, 10:19 AM)Dill Wrote: What do you mean by "this"?  Building a wall? Stoking racist fear in general? A specific policy?

You said what's good for Trump is good for the country, which, saying that he benefited off hiring illegals, banning then now wouldn't benefit him.

He's cracking down on immigration, but leave it to the left to call it racism and bash trying to improve the country by slowing illegal immigration.

(04-04-2018, 10:19 AM)Dill Wrote: Becoming president has certainly enhanced the business interests that he, unlike previous presidents, did not divest.
Same for Jared and Ivanka, whom he made WH staff despite their lack of qualifications. 

Jared has been downgraded, so Trump is fixing his mistake.  

(04-04-2018, 10:19 AM)Dill Wrote: And he became president by appealing to people's darkest worst instincts, and keeps his base together with a daily dump of disinformation.

He became President by not catering to the lowest common denominator and wanting to make the country great again instead of just dragging along.

(04-04-2018, 10:19 AM)Dill Wrote: How is any of this good for the country?

Because Trump is making the country competitive with other countries and within itself again, whereas 8 years of Obama and the Democratic way had us in a mindset of "let's give everyone a trophy, even if they don't try."

Trump is moving us forward.

[Dill]

(04-04-2018, 03:59 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: You said what's good for Trump is good for the country, which, saying that he benefited off hiring illegals, banning then now wouldn't benefit him.

He's cracking down on immigration, but leave it to the left to call it racism and bash trying to improve the country by slowing illegal immigration.

Jared has been downgraded, so Trump is fixing his mistake.  

He became President by not catering to the lowest common denominator and wanting to make the country great again instead of just dragging along.

Because Trump is making the country competitive with other countries and within itself again, whereas 8 years of Obama and the Democratic way had us in a mindset of "let's give everyone a trophy, even if they don't try."

Trump is moving us forward.

Looks like we have a basic disagreement both on the factual record and on how the nation is trending.

I am saying the Trump is a large scale grifter using the office for his benefit. Not the nation's. This is regardless of whether he hires immigrants or cannot.  Jared is "downgraded" because he cannot pass security clearance (like so many other White House functionaries, whom Trump's bad judgment placed at the center of executive power). So far as I know, he is still in charge of peace in the Middle East. And Ivanka is still in the WH. That is not to the benefit of anyone but the Trump family and their various businesses.

Trump became president exactly by catering to the lowest common denominator, stoking fear of Muslims and brown/black immigrants. Leave it to the left to call racism "racism." What is your evidence that the U.S. somehow was "not great" before Trump? How is his reckless and uniformed foreign policy changing that?  This is a Fox News presidency, which spreads disinformation and makes it a basis for policy.

All you say above just seems buy-in to Trump's rhetoric, plus some guided speculation on what the Obama presidency was all about.  I don't see any evidence the US is somehow now more "competitive" with other countries.  It seems, rather, that the US has ceded its international leadership to China and EU. 

[fredtoast]

Remember when the Soviet Union posted all of those troops at the border to keep people from ENTERING their country?

Neither do I.

The wall and the military at the border is just the first step in sealing off the Nuited States so that no one can leave.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-04-2018, 05:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Remember when the Soviet Union posted all of those troops at the border to keep people from ENTERING their country?

Neither do I.

The wall and the military at the border is just the first step in sealing off the Nuited States so that no one can leave.

Lol.

We just can’t sit here and watch an invasion of poor, uneducated, and unskilled people flood our. Border.

[Millhouse]

(04-04-2018, 07:27 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Lol.  

We just can’t sit here and watch an invasion of poor, uneducated,  and unskilled people flood our. Border.

To be fair at least many of them are willing to work. Where as many of our own poor, uneducated, and unskilled citizens prefer not to work, thanks in large part to an unnamed political party's agenda.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-04-2018, 07:47 PM)Millhouse Wrote: To be fair at least many of them are willing to work. Where as many of our own poor, uneducated, and unskilled citizens prefer not to work, thanks in large part to an unnamed political party's agenda.

I agree they will work. I just don’t care about other countries poor people. I want to put our own poor to work.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-04-2018, 07:47 PM)Millhouse Wrote: To be fair at least many of them are willing to work. Where as many of our own poor, uneducated, and unskilled citizens prefer not to work, thanks in large part to an unnamed political party's agenda.

Yep, much too easy to get by without having to do much of anything productive, these days.

[*Nately120*]

(04-04-2018, 07:27 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Lol.  

We just can’t sit here and watch an invasion of poor, uneducated,  and unskilled people flood our. Border.

Maybe we should be like our president and give them jobs.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-04-2018, 08:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Maybe we should be like our president and give them jobs.

I prefer military installations along the Mexican border. Time we got tough with them.

[mallorian69]

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title10/subtitleA/part1/chapter15&edition=prelim

"(a) Authority to Provide Assistance.—The Secretary of Defense may provide assistance to United States Customs and Border Protection for purposes of increasing ongoing efforts to secure the southern land border of the United States.

"(b) Concurrence in Assistance.—Assistance under subsection (a) shall be provided with the concurrence of the Secretary of Homeland Security.
"© Types of Assistance Authorized.—The assistance provided under subsection (a) may include the following:
"(1) Deployment of members and units of the regular and reserve components of the Armed Forces to the southern land border of the United States.
"(2) Deployment of manned aircraft, unmanned aerial surveillance systems, and ground-based surveillance systems to support continuous surveillance of the southern land border of the United States.
"(3) Intelligence analysis support.



According to the US Code it is in fact legal to use the military to help secure the border.

[Dill]

(04-05-2018, 01:34 AM)mallorian69 Wrote: http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title10/subtitleA/part1/chapter15&edition=prelim


"© Types of Assistance Authorized.—The assistance provided under subsection (a) may include the following:
"(1) Deployment of members and units of the regular and reserve components of the Armed Forces to the southern land border of the United States.
"(2) Deployment of manned aircraft, unmanned aerial surveillance systems, and ground-based surveillance systems to support continuous surveillance of the southern land border of the United States.
"(3) Intelligence analysis support.

Looks like it is legal for the military to surveill/monitor. Can they shoot anyone? Arrest anyone?

[mallorian69]

(04-05-2018, 01:55 AM)Dill Wrote: Looks like it is legal for the military to surveill/monitor. Can they shoot anyone? Arrest anyone?

Shoot, definitely not. Unless their lives were in imminent danger. But those are pretty much the same rules for Border Patrol agents as well. 

Arrest, maybe. Depends on if it takes place during an anti drug or terrorism operation. I haven't read every section and revision and I'm no legal scholar but it does appear that the NG can be used for those purposes as long as certain steps are taken with Congress. 

Even if they can't use them for anything other than strictly intelligence purposes, it would free up a large number of BP agents to make arrests.

Hell just the sight of a military looking armored vehicle, helicopter, or drone would give most people second thoughts about crossing the border. Most of them are coming from places where the military can and will arrest/shoot people and have no clue that there are laws in the US that prevent that from happening here.

[Belsnickel]

(04-05-2018, 01:55 AM)Dill Wrote: Looks like it is legal for the military to surveill/monitor. Can they shoot anyone? Arrest anyone?

No. Even detaining someone crossing the border would be moving from support to enforcement, which would be in violation of U.S. law.

[Belsnickel]

(04-05-2018, 02:26 AM)mallorian69 Wrote: Hell just the sight of a military looking armored vehicle, helicopter, or drone would give most people second thoughts about crossing the border. Most of them are coming from places where the military can and will arrest/shoot people and have no clue that there are laws in the US that prevent that from happening here.

If you think this will deter them, then you don't understand the people crossing the border. They already knowingly risk rape, arrest, robbery, dehydration, starvation, exhaustion, broken bones, falls, wild animals, and a whole host of other things to get here. They risk death, knowingly, on a regular basis to get into this country through the desert.

Increasing border patrols won't stop this. Adding the NG to the border won't stop it. They will continue to cross in places that can't effectively be monitored (which is what they do already) and put themselves in harm's way to get here. The reward is greater than the risk for them.

[fredtoast]

(04-04-2018, 07:27 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Lol.  

We just can’t sit here and watch an invasion of poor, uneducated,  and unskilled people flood our. Border.

That's what the rubes in the old Soviet Union were told also.

Then they tried to leave.



"Don't mind all these troops at the boder folks.  It is all for your own good."

[GMDino]

From this morning:

The Caravan is largely broken up thanks to the strong immigration laws of Mexico and their willingness to use them so as not to cause a giant scene at our Border. Because of the Trump Administrations actions, Border crossings are at a still UNACCEPTABLE 46 year low. Stop drugs!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 5, 2018

To sum up:

It was never a "huge caravan" so he can tell his rube supporters it's broken up "now".
Trump WAS willing to make a "giant scene" at the border about nothing.
Illegal immigration is down to a 46 year low and Trump is STILL blaming it for all our problems.

Lastly, he is clueless.