Minority rule

[*bfine32*]

(10-20-2020, 12:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The entire point of having a democracy is to give power to citizens that would otherwise be exploited by the people at the top of the hierarchy.

Claiming that rich should be allowed to rule because they have more money is pretty much the opposite of what the United Sates is supposed to stand for.

I'm just getting a feel for where we stand.

So rich pay more, but get the same voice?

As I said; if you want it to be equal let's make it equal, if not, then don't bytch when those that pay more get more.

[*bfine32*]

(10-20-2020, 12:06 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: the argument is that cherry picking only federal income taxes is disingenuous at best and just demonstrates the massive wealth disparity in the US.

If you look at all taxes paid, it's not nearly as "unfair" 




https://theintercept.com/2019/04/13/tax-day-taxes-statistics/

We have a slightly progressive tax system 

Fred's rep aside: Absolutely nothing in your chart shows any type of payment equality. In fact it just further strengthens the point made if we understand Economics

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2020, 12:10 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm just getting a feel for where we stand.

So rich pay more, but get the same voice?

As I said; if you want it to be equal let's make it equal, if not, then don't bytch when those that pay more get more.

I think all men are created equal so all men should get one vote.  

How many more votes do you think rich people should get in order to make things "equal".

[*bfine32*]

(10-20-2020, 12:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: There are arguments to be made over the fairness of a flat tax. Life just ain't fair.

Like Minority Rule?

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2020, 12:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Fred's rep aside: Absolutely nothing in your chart shows any type of payment equality. In fact it just further strengthens the point made if we understand Economics

This thread is about voting.  Why are you brining up income taxes?

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2020, 12:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Like Minority Rule?

We are talking about minority of people not minority of wealth.

How many more votes should a rich person get?

The top 10 percent control 90% of the wealth.  So should they get 90% of the votes?

[*bfine32*]

(10-20-2020, 12:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think all men are created equal so all men should get one vote.  

How many more votes do you think rich people should get in order to make things "equal".

Obviously you really feel it as you put it in bold. So all that are created equal should pay equal percentage of taxes

Every qualified Citizen should get 1 vote. Who has argued against that

[*Nately120*]

(10-20-2020, 12:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Like Minority Rule?

Seeing as I wanted the guy who came in 3rd to be the president in not sure if you're catching me in quite the trap you think. 

The main issue in my mind is the tax burden we are putting on future generations with our champagne tastes.

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2020, 12:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Every qualified Citizen should get 1 vote. Who has argued against that

You have since you have equated "minority rule" to income tax paid.

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2020, 12:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Obviously you really feel it as you put it in bold. So all that are created equal should pay equal percentage of taxes

No other country in the world is this cruel and heartless.

Even the proponents of a flat tax agree that the poor should get a deduction to cover basic cost of living.

[*Nately120*]

Call me a cop out artist but we support a 2 party system that fights to keep fiscal conservatism off the ticket. So yeah, taxes are a bummer.

[*bfine32*]

(10-20-2020, 12:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No other country in the world is this cruel and heartless.

Even the proponents of a flat tax agree that the poor should get a deduction to cover basic cost of living.

Hey we're either all created equal or we're not,

[BmorePat87]

(10-20-2020, 12:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No other country in the world is this cruel and heartless.

Even the proponents of a flat tax agree that the poor should get a deduction to cover basic cost of living.

That's because they understand economics and don't just copy and paste out of context bullet points that failed to show what they thought it showed. 

Proponents of a flat tax also have to reconcile the penalty it would impose on middle class homeowners if it were immediately implemented, causing housing prices to crash, while still allowing business deductions for the wealthy. 

I'm not sure if that's a good synapse of the problems with a flat tax because I do not understand economics...

[*PhilHos*]

(10-20-2020, 12:30 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: That's because they understand economics and don't just copy and paste out of context bullet points that failed to show what they thought it showed. 

Proponents of a flat tax also have to reconcile the penalty it would impose on middle class homeowners if it were immediately implemented, causing housing prices to crash, while still allowing business deductions for the wealthy. 

I'm not sure if that's a good synapse of the problems with a flat tax because I do not understand economics...

So there's only 1 possible flat tax plan? There's absolutely no way to implement a flat tax while also implementing policies to address these issues?

[*bfine32*]

(10-20-2020, 12:36 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So there's only 1 possible flat tax plan? There's absolutely no way to implement a flat tax while also implementing policies to address these issues?

To be fair the homeowner clause is not what it once was. Those many consider to be unfair would be happiest people in the world in we developed a flat tax as opposed to what we have. The maddest would be those that pay very little.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-20-2020, 12:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: To be fair the homeowner clause is not what it once was. Those many consider to be unfair would be happiest people in the world in we developed a flat tax as opposed to what we have. The maddest would be those that pay very little.

I have heard some arguments against the flat tax over the years but I'm still not convinced that it would NOT work in America if done properly. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-20-2020, 12:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I just posed the question.

If we want "all things equal". Let's support a flat tax. if not, let's understand there is a hierarchy in our society and accept it at all times, not just when we want to and curse it when we don't.

Funny coming from a guy who supports institutional sexism and doesn’t believe women should go to Ranger school. Who also supports discrimination based upon sexual orientation because you’re against marriage equality.

The bottom 50% you referenced make less tha 42K/yr. I earn that about per quarter. So while we were created equal, our incomes and ability to pay tax and support out families is not. With a flat tax you’re asking those with the least ability to pay to pay the same as those with the most ability to pay. That could potentially take food out of the mouths of the poor while the rich might have to buy a 40m super yacht instead of a 50m super yacht. It’s so f’n stupid I question the intelligence of anyone who isn’t smart enough to understand that very simple point.

Anyway, I’d like to report a hijacking in progress.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-20-2020, 12:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Hey we're either all created equal or we're not,

Are incomes created equal?

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2020, 01:28 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Are incomes created equal?

Apparently you are only entitled to as much life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness as you can afford.

If you are born with a trust fund you deserve more votes.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(10-20-2020, 02:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Apparently you are only entitled to as much life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness as you can afford.

If you are born with a trust fund you deserve more votes.

Rich people get extra votes?  At what income does this kick in?