Mollie Tibbets Murder

[GMDino]

[Beaker]

Regardless of this useless argument about crime rate and whether or not its higher due to illegals, is just masking the point that maybe illegals should be removed because they are here illegally....whether they intend to commit any further crimes or not.

Resources should be focused on eliminating as much illegal immigration as possible. Legal immigrants, no problem. Illegal immigrants, problem.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(08-25-2018, 05:31 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Like I said, how many immigrants being conservative or non-problematic make it ok for one legal citizen to be murdered by the problematic immigrant? 

I just typed out a really long response to you're reply and hit some key and it erased the hole thing. I don't feel like typing it again, but I will say you're question doesn't make any sense.   Why would there be some arbitrary number for "x" amount of "conservative non-problematic make it ok to kill a legal citizen"? Problematic or not?  Murder is murder regardless.

[BFritz21]

(08-28-2018, 02:28 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I just typed out a really long response to you're reply and hit some key and it erased the hole thing. I don't feel like typing it again, but I will say you're question doesn't make any sense.   Why would there be some arbitrary number for "x" amount of "conservative non-problematic make it ok to kill a legal citizen"? Problematic or not?  Murder is murder regardless.

That's what I'm saying to his "most immigrants are non-probamatic."  

It doesn't matter how many are non-problamatic because one person murdered by an illegal immigrant is too many.

[ballsofsteel]

(08-27-2018, 07:07 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Typical victim blaming.

Just a fact. The turd took a gun the victim owned and killed him with it. Your doing the blaming. I'm just stating a fact. Thanks.

[GMDino]

(08-27-2018, 11:37 PM)Beaker Wrote: Regardless of this useless argument about crime rate and whether or not its higher due to illegals, is just masking the point that maybe illegals should be removed because they are here illegally....whether they intend to commit any further crimes or not.

Resources should be focused on eliminating as much illegal immigration as possible. Legal immigrants, no problem. Illegal immigrants, problem.

Maybe.  Maybe not.

Maybe we can make it easier for them to be here legally?

Wasn't the stat that most (many?) "illegals" became illegal after the system clogged and they couldn't renew visas?

What is the sense in going after someone brought here as a child who has lived here their whole life with no criminal problems and contributes to society?

So many questions...that people what to apply simple black and white answers to.

[fredtoast]

(08-27-2018, 11:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:


You're still ignoring my point.

If it's the same on both sides, then not having illegals (or less) in this country would still lower THE NUMBER OF CRIMES COMMITTED, regardless of the "rate."

The rate is what matters.

Would you rather live in a country with a million citizens and a crime rate of 10% or a country with 5 million and a crime rate of 5%.

There are fewer crimes in the smaller country, but you are twice as likely to be a victim.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-28-2018, 06:40 AM)ballsofsteel Wrote: Just a fact. The turd took a gun the victim owned and killed him with it. Your doing the blaming. I'm just stating a fact. Thanks.

You probably blame rape victims for how they dress as well.  

DINO WHERE ARE YOU?

[fredtoast]

(08-28-2018, 04:17 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: It doesn't matter how many are non-problamatic because one person murdered by an illegal immigrant is too many.

No it isn't because there are also citizens being saved from crimes because illegals are here.

You can't just look at one side and ignore the other.  

[Benton]

(08-27-2018, 11:37 PM)Beaker Wrote: Regardless of this useless argument about crime rate and whether or not its higher due to illegals, is just masking the point that maybe illegals should be removed because they are here illegally....whether they intend to commit any further crimes or not.

Resources should be focused on eliminating as much illegal immigration as possible. Legal immigrants, no problem. Illegal immigrants, problem.

People should not be here illegally.

On the other hand, we shouldn't allow people to come here, build lives and then tell them they've got to shutter their businesses and leave their homes because the backlog on processing is rapidly approaching 1 million applicants per year. Some of these people came here, worked hard and already built a life, contributed to a community; but they're here illegally because their visa expired and they're on a list for years.

I'm not an open borders guy. But I don't like the system we have now that says 'sure, come here, work here, pay taxes here and maybe eventually we'll kick you out of here because we're blowing those tax dollars you paid on cocaine and hookers.'

[BFritz21]

(08-28-2018, 09:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No it isn't because there are also citizens being saved from crimes because illegals are here.

You can't just look at one side and ignore the other.  

This keeps getting better and better!

You're still trying to argue that it's ok for minorities to be here because legal citizens commit crimes against them that they'd normally commit against legal citizens?

Let's pretend that that's not an outragious claim, just for a second, and tell me what crimes that people commit against illegal immigrants that they'd commit against legal citizens if the illegals weren't here?  Do you have any evidence or even logic to support this claim?

[Beaker]

(08-28-2018, 09:01 AM)GMDino Wrote: Wasn't the stat that most (many?) "illegals" became illegal after the system clogged and they couldn't renew visas?

OK, if that's the case I have no problem amending that to figuring out how to let someone who first entered legally stay. If they are only deemed illegal due to red tape issues that's totally different than entering illegally.

[Beaker]

(08-28-2018, 10:35 AM)Benton Wrote: People should not be here illegally.

On the other hand, we shouldn't allow people to come here, build lives and then tell them they've got to shutter their businesses and leave their homes because the backlog on processing is rapidly approaching 1 million applicants per year. Some of these people came here, worked hard and already built a life, contributed to a community; but they're here illegally because their visa expired and they're on a list for years.

I'm not an open borders guy. But I don't like the system we have now that says 'sure, come here, work here, pay taxes here and maybe eventually we'll kick you out of here because we're blowing those tax dollars you paid on cocaine and hookers.'

I amended that stance in post #92 based upon that additional info. I agree with you.

[*bfine32*]

(08-28-2018, 09:06 PM)Beaker Wrote: OK, if that's the case I have no problem amending that to figuring out how to let someone who first entered legally stay. If they are only deemed illegal due to red tape issues that's totally different than entering illegally.

I really don't see how anyone could have a problem with someone entering the country legally; being now deemed illegal because of red tape.

I do have a problem with someone who entered the country illegally trying to jump in front of those looking to do it legally.

I really don't see how anyone could have a problem with that.

[GMDino]

(08-28-2018, 09:06 PM)Beaker Wrote: OK, if that's the case I have no problem amending that to figuring out how to let someone who first entered legally stay. If they are only deemed illegal due to red tape issues that's totally different than entering illegally.

What about children brought here?  They had no control, were forced to live in the shadows.  They have no path to citizenship.

Should they be rounded up and deported with the MS13 gang members?

[BFritz21]

(08-28-2018, 09:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The rate is what matters.

Would you rather live in a country with a million citizens and a crime rate of 10% or a country with 5 million and a crime rate of 5%.

There are fewer crimes in the smaller country, but you are twice as likely to be a victim.

How can you argue a rate is what matters when the entire purpose of a law is to keep people safe and alive?!

You can't say "ok, it's ok that an illegal immigrant killed a US citizen because we haven't reached our quota yet where we have to start cracking down."

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(08-28-2018, 04:17 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: That's what I'm saying to his "most immigrants are non-probamatic."  

It doesn't matter how many are non-problamatic because one person murdered by an illegal immigrant is too many.

And what we're saying is focus on problematic illegals first, instead of focusing our limited resources on trying to catch every single illegal immigrant, because that's just not going happen.  Who knows maybe Mollies death may have been prevented had we been pursuing criminals and not just random illegals.  Some we've known to be here for years without committing criminal acts.  In fact I do believe in strong border security, I just don't think a huge wall that really isn't going to happen is the way to go, to many barriers because of private land issues.  Plus it'd be too expansive and wouldn't really do shit.  We should turn to tech such as tech, like drones, cameras and the like.  Along with working with Mexico to figure out how to get rid of the cartels and policy helping immigrants who are seeking asylum with pathways to citizenship.  In short any person murdered by ANYONE is one too many, I don't care if they're legal, illegal, or native citizens.  The thinking of " deport em all" as a solution is unrealistic and lazy thinking for a complex problem.

[ballsofsteel]

(08-28-2018, 09:56 AM)michaelsean Wrote: You probably blame rape victims for how they dress as well.  

DINO WHERE ARE YOU?

You blame people for things you make up when you are presented with FACTS cause it doesn''t fit your agenda. Thanks.

[GMDino]

(08-29-2018, 02:07 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: And what we're saying is focus on problematic illegals first, instead of focusing our limited resources on trying to catch every single illegal immigrant, because that's just not going happen.  Who knows maybe Mollies death may have been prevented had we been pursuing criminals and not just random illegals.  Some we've known to be here for years without committing criminal acts.  In fact I do believe in strong border security, I just don't think a huge wall that really isn't going to happen is the way to go, to many barriers because of private land issues.  Plus it'd be too expansive and wouldn't really do shit.  We should turn to tech such as tech, like drones, cameras and the like.  Along with working with Mexico to figure out how to get rid of the cartels and policy helping immigrants who are seeking asylum with pathways to citizenship.  In short any person murdered by ANYONE is one too many, I don't care if they're legal, illegal, or native citizens.  The thinking of " deport em all" as a solution is unrealistic and lazy thinking for a complex problem.

To the bold:  The immigrants they are "catching" are the low hanging fruit.  People trying to do the right thing that have bad paperwork or people already arrested for anything at all.  There is no concerted effort to get the "Bad" ones.  Just to get as many as possible so Trump can say he has yuge numbers.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-29-2018, 06:06 AM)ballsofsteel Wrote: You blame people for things you make up when you are presented with FACTS cause it doesn''t fit your agenda. Thanks.

Anti-victim blaming shaming? Certainly a new low.