Mollie Tibbets Murder

[Belsnickel]

I haven't been following this thread because I don't know a ton about it. What I do know is the family is disgusted by people politicizing Mollie's death. Much like the disgust over politicizing school or other mass shootings to push for gun control laws, this falls in the same category.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-29-2018, 08:50 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I haven't been following this thread because I don't know a ton about it. What I do know is the family is disgusted by people politicizing Mollie's death. Much like the disgust over politicizing school or other mass shootings to push for gun control laws, this falls in the same category.

I completely agree.  Yet, for some reason many don't seem to mind politicizing mass shootings.  It certainly plays well on most big media outlets.

[Belsnickel]

(08-29-2018, 10:59 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I completely agree.  Yet, for some reason many don't seem to mind politicizing mass shootings.  It certainly plays well on most big media outlets.

I agree. It's why whenever the discussion starts around here I discuss separating the conversation out from specific events.

[Beaker]

(08-28-2018, 09:42 PM)GMDino Wrote: What about children brought here?  They had no control, were forced to live in the shadows.  They have no path to citizenship.

Should they be rounded up and deported with the MS13 gang members?

They should be deported with the parents if the parents brought them when they entered illegally.

[Bengalzona]

(08-29-2018, 08:08 PM)Beaker Wrote: They should be deported with the parents if the parents brought them when they entered illegally.

That's how I feel. No need to split up the family just for someone's perverse pleasure. Round them up together, send them home together.

Why would this be difficult?

[*michaelsean*]

(08-29-2018, 08:17 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: That's how I feel. No need to split up the family just for someone's perverse pleasure. Round them up together, send them home together.

Why would this be difficult?

It’s the inbetween part.

[Bengalzona]

(08-29-2018, 08:41 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It’s the inbetween part.

What? Keeping a family together during internment? Seems like we did okay with that with Japanese citizens during WWII. We even did okay pushing Indians around as family groups. Why do we suddenly need to go back to the old slavery days practice of breaking up families? Did we forget something along the way?

[*michaelsean*]

(08-29-2018, 09:13 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: What? Keeping a family together during internment? Seems like we did okay with that with Japanese citizens during WWII. We even did okay pushing Indians around as family groups. Why do we suddenly need to go back to the old slavery days practice of breaking up families? Did we forget something along the way?

I’m just saying that’s when they are split up. If the adult is sent to an adult detention center the children can’t go with them. The admin upped the number that were being sent.

[GMDino]

(08-29-2018, 08:08 PM)Beaker Wrote: They should be deported with the parents if the parents brought them when they entered illegally.

But they're 30 now.

[Bengalzona]

(08-29-2018, 09:31 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I’m just saying that’s when they are split up. If the adult is sent to an adult detention center the children can’t go with them. The admin upped the number that were being sent.

I know. I'm not raging against you, bro.

I'm just saying, why can't there be family detention centers? Doesn't seem that complicated.

[fredtoast]

(08-29-2018, 09:53 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I know. I'm not raging against you, bro.

I'm just saying, why can't there be family detention centers? Doesn't seem that complicated.

They will have to build some.  We never needed them before because we did not detain people while waiting for immigration hearings.

But when Trump first changed the policy he made it clear that the reason he did it was to punish the innocent children so that the adults would not attempt entry.  Can't do that if they have family detention facilities.

[Bengalzona]

(08-29-2018, 09:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They will have to build some.  We never needed them before because we did not detain people while waiting for immigration hearings.

But when Trump first changed the policy he made it clear that the reason he did it was to punish the innocent children so that the adults would not attempt entry.  Can't do that if they have family detention facilities.

And that is why I say the current policy is perverse.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-29-2018, 10:11 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: And that is why I say the current policy is perverse.

Yeah as it’s been enforced. The policy is the same and as I recall it was for criminals that were detained. Then they started detaining non-criminals and kept them in adult centers. Or something like that.

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-29-2018, 09:53 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I know. I'm not raging against you, bro.

I'm just saying, why can't there be family detention centers? Doesn't seem that complicated.

My boys Trump and Sessions know some guys who can help you make some big money locking people up. Could have some super sweet for profit family style prisons set up.!! Gov money just flowing in

[GMDino]

Might as well leave this here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/us-is-denying-passports-to-americans-along-the-border-throwing-their-citizenship-into-question/2018/08/29/1d630e84-a0da-11e8-a3dd-2a1991f075d5_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.128513992dbd

Quote:U.S. is denying passports to Americans along the border, throwing their citizenship into question



On paper, he’s a devoted U.S. citizen.

His official American birth certificate shows he was delivered by a midwife in Brownsville, at the southern tip of Texas. He spent his life wearing American uniforms: three years as a private in the Army, then as a cadet in the Border Patrol and now as a state prison guard.

But when Juan, 40, applied to renew his U.S. passport this year, the government’s response floored him. In a letter, the State Department said it didn’t believe he was an American citizen.

As he would later learn, Juan is one of a growing number of people whose official birth records show they were born in the United States but who are now being denied passports — their citizenship suddenly thrown into question. The Trump administration is accusing hundreds, and possibly thousands, of Hispanics along the border of using fraudulent birth certificates since they were babies, and it is undertaking a widespread crackdown.


In a statement, the State Department said that it “has not changed policy or practice regarding the adjudication of passport applications,” adding that “the U.S.-Mexico border region happens to be an area of the country where there has been a significant incidence of citizenship fraud.”

But cases identified by The Washington Post and interviews with immigration attorneys suggest a dramatic shift in both passport issuance and immigration enforcement.

In some cases, passport applicants with official U.S. birth certificates are being jailed in immigration detention centers and entered into deportation proceedings. In others, they are stuck in Mexico, their passports suddenly revoked when they tried to reenter the United States. As the Trump administration attempts to reduce both legal and illegal immigration, the government’s treatment of passport applicants in South Texas shows how U.S. citizens are increasingly being swept up by immigration enforcement agencies.


Juan said he was infuriated by the government’s response. “I served my country. I fought for my country,” he said, speaking on the condition that his last name not be used so that he wouldn’t be targeted by immigration enforcement.

The government alleges that from the 1950s through the 1990s, some midwives and physicians along the Texas-Mexico border provided U.S. birth certificates to babies who were actually born in Mexico. In a series of federal court cases in the 1990s, several birth attendants admitted to providing fraudulent documents.

Based on those suspicions, the State Department during the George W. Bush and Barack Obama administrations denied passports to people who were delivered by midwives in Texas’s Rio Grande Valley. The use of midwives is a long-standing tradition in the region, in part because of the cost of hospital care.


The same midwives who provided fraudulent birth certificates also delivered thousands of babies legally in the United States. It has proved nearly impossible to distinguish between legitimate and illegitimate documents, all of them officially issued by the state of Texas decades ago.

A 2009 government settlement in a case litigated by the American Civil Liberties Union seemed to have mostly put an end to the passport denials. Attorneys reported that the number of denials declined during the rest of the Obama administration, and the government settled promptly when people filed complaints after being denied passports.

But under President Trump, the passport denials and revocations appear to be surging, becoming part of a broader interrogation into the citizenship of people who have lived, voted and worked in the United States for their entire lives.

“We’re seeing these kind of cases skyrocketing,” said Jennifer Correro, an attorney in Houston who is defending dozens of people who have been denied passports.

In its statement, the State Department said that applicants “who have birth certificates filed by a midwife or other birth attendant suspected of having engaged in fraudulent activities, as well as applicants who have both a U.S. and foreign birth certificate, are asked to provide additional documentation establishing they were born in the United States.”

“Individuals who are unable to demonstrate that they were born in the United States are denied issuance of a passport,” the statement said.

When Juan, the former soldier, received a letter from the State Department telling him it wasn’t convinced that he was a U.S. citizen, it requested a range of obscure documents — evidence of his mother’s prenatal care, his baptismal certificate, rental agreements from when he was a baby.


He managed to find some of those documents but weeks later received another denial. In a letter, the government said the information “did not establish your birth in the United States.”

“I thought to myself, you know, I’m going to have to seek legal help,” said Juan, who earns $13 an hour as a prison guard and expects to pay several thousand dollars in legal fees.

In a case last August, a 35-year-old Texas man with a U.S. passport was interrogated while crossing back into Texas from Mexico with his son at the ­McAllen-Hidalgo-Reynosa International Bridge, connecting Reynosa, Mexico, to McAllen, Tex.

His passport was taken from him, and Customs and Border Protection agents told him to admit that he was born in Mexico, according to documents later filed in federal court. He refused and was sent to the Los Fresnos Detention Center and entered into deportation proceedings.


He was released three days later, but the government scheduled a deportation hearing for him in 2019. His passport, which had been issued in 2008, was revoked.

Attorneys say these cases, where the government’s doubts about an official birth certificate lead to immigration detention, are increasingly common. “I’ve had probably 20 people who have been sent to the detention center — U.S. citizens,” said Jaime Diez, an attorney in Brownsville.

Diez represents dozens of U.S. citizens who were denied their passports or had their passports suddenly revoked. Among them are soldiers and Border Patrol agents. In some cases, Immigration and Customs
Enforcement agents have arrived at his clients’ homes without notice and taken passports away.

The State Department says that even though it may deny someone a passport, that does not necessarily mean that the individual will be deported. But it leaves them in a legal limbo, with one arm of the U.S. government claiming they are not an American and the prospect that immigration agents could follow up on their case.

It’s difficult to know where the crackdown fits into the Trump administration’s broader efforts to reduce legal and illegal immigration. Over the past year, it has thrown legal permanent residents out of the military and formed a denaturalization task force that tries to identify people who might have lied on decades-old citizenship applications.

Now, the administration appears to be taking aim at a broad group of Americans along the stretch of the border where Trump has promised to build his wall, where he directed the deployment of National Guardsmen, and where the majority of cases in which children were separated from their parents during the administration’s “zero tolerance” policy occurred.

The State Department would not say how many passports it has denied to people along the border because of concerns about fraudulent birth certificates. The government has also refused to provide a list of midwives whom it considers to be suspicious.

Lawyers along the border say that it isn’t just those delivered by midwives who are being denied.

Babies delivered by Jorge Treviño, one of the regions most well-known gynecologists, are also being denied. When he died in 2015, the McAllen Monitor wrote in his obituary that Treviño had delivered 15,000 babies.

It’s unclear why babies delivered by Treviño are being targeted, and the State Department did not comment on individual birth attendants. Diez, the attorney, said the government has an affidavit from an unnamed Mexican doctor who said that Treviño’s office provided at least one fraudulent birth certificate for a child born in Mexico.

One of the midwives who was accused of providing fraudulent birth certificates in the 1990s admitted in an interview that in two cases, she accepted money to provide fake documents. She said she helped deliver 600 babies in South Texas, many of them now being denied passports. Those birth certificates were issued by the state of Texas, with the midwife’s name listed under “birth attendant.”

“I know that they are suffering now, but it’s out of my control,” she said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of her admission.

For those who have received passport denials from the government, it affects not only their travel plans but their sense of identity as Americans.

One woman who has been denied, named Betty, said she had tried to get a passport to visit her grandfather as he was dying in Mexico. She went to a passport office in Houston, where government officials denied her request and questioned whether she had been born in the United States.

“You’re getting questioned on something so fundamentally you,” said Betty, who spoke on the condition her last name not be used because of concerns about immigration enforcement.

The denials are happening at a time when Trump has been lobbying for stricter federal voter identification rules, which would presumably affect the same people who are now being denied passports — almost all of them Hispanic, living in a heavily Democratic sliver of Texas.

“That’s where it gets scary,” Diez said.

For now, passport applicants who are able to afford the legal costs are suing the federal government over their passport denials. Typically, the applicants eventually win those cases, after government attorneys raise a series of sometimes bizarre questions about their birth.

“For a while, we had attorneys asking the same question: ‘Do you remember when you were born?’ ” Diez said. “I had to promise my clients that it wasn’t a trick question.”

Welcome to Trump's version of America.  If there is even a remote chance that you might possibly in any way be "illegal" you better prove you aren't.  Especially if you're brown skinned.

Keep defending this jackwad folks.  Looks good.

[Bengalzona]

(08-29-2018, 10:31 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: My boys Trump and Sessions know some guys who can help you make some big money locking people up. Could have some super sweet for profit family style prisons set up.!! Gov money just flowing in

Interesting you bring that up.

I appraised a mid-rise, 200+ unit adult-care property a few years back out here. The owner's were looking to sell it off, probably to be used for another use (since it seems old people aren't fond of anything over one story, even if there are elevators). I assumed someone eventually bought it. And they did. One of these companies that does detention for illegals. And they started stocking with illegal juveniles, some taken from their parents.

Now, they don't normally advertise about these places. They way I found out was on the radio. When I heard the property description on the radio and the general location, I knew exactly what property it was (it sort of stands out there). It seems that this particular company was extremely lax on their hiring requirements. Over 13 cases of sexual assault have been filed against the workers and the company faces disciplinary actions and fines for their lax hiring policies.

But, you know, I guess we need to teach those illegals hard lessons, right.

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-29-2018, 11:12 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Interesting you bring that up.

I appraised a mid-rise, 200+ unit adult-care property a few years back out here. The owner's were looking to sell it off, probably to be used for another use (since it seems old people aren't fond of anything over one story, even if there are elevators). I assumed someone eventually bought it. And they did. One of these companies that does detention for illegals. And they started stocking with illegal juveniles, some taken from their parents.

Now, they don't normally advertise about these places. They way I found out was on the radio. When I heard the property description on the radio and the general location, I knew exactly what property it was (it sort of stands out there). It seems that this particular company was extremely lax on their hiring requirements. Over 13 cases of sexual assault have been filed against the workers and the company faces disciplinary actions and fines for their lax hiring policies.

But, you know, I guess we need to teach those illegals hard lessons, right.

Often the best way to integrate human beings into society who are fleeing hardship and in search of a better life is to imprison them and make their lives misersble.

[Benton]

Little off topic (or maybe not since the guy in the Tibbits murder was allegedly here illegally and working. But this is how you fix immigration. Fund the agencies, enforce existing laws.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/29/ice-raid-at-texas-company-nets-more-than-100-illegal-immigrant-arrests-officials-say.html

Quote:More than 100 workers were arrested at a Texas trailer manufacturer Tuesday in a federal immigration raid.

The raid targeting Load Trail Trailers in Sumner netted 160 arrests. It was at least the second immigration raid targeting the business, the last coming in 2014. At the time, the company paid $445,000 fine for hiring illegal immigrants to work in its plant, officials said.

And, if you keep hitting employers trying to benefit off cheap labor, eventually they'll pay a better wage to attract legal employees.

[GMDino]

(08-30-2018, 10:45 AM)Benton Wrote: Little off topic (or maybe not since the guy in the Tibbits murder was allegedly here illegally and working. But this is how you fix immigration. Fund the agencies, enforce existing laws.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/08/29/ice-raid-at-texas-company-nets-more-than-100-illegal-immigrant-arrests-officials-say.html

And, if you keep hitting employers trying to benefit off cheap labor, eventually they'll pay a better wage to attract legal employees.

Or they just pay the fine and hope they don't get hit again for another four years.

If I did my math right:  445,000 / 4 years / 160 workers = $695.31 a year per worker.

695.31 / 52 weeks = $13.37 a week in wages per worker.

I imagine they made more than than just buy paying them less?

[Vlad]

(08-29-2018, 09:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They will have to build some.  We never needed them before because we did not detain people while waiting for immigration hearings.

But when Trump first changed the policy he made it clear that the reason he did it was to punish the innocent children so that the adults would not attempt entry.  Can't do that if they have family detention facilities.

Where did you hear that CNN?

He did what?

The policy of separating families and children occurred under both Bush and to Obama.

The only reason we are talking about it now is because Trump is president. Triggered by the left to give the illusion that somehow this is Trumps doing.
Many low info types still believe that and it remains planted in their heads. Success.

This photo released by the leftwing fake media falsely claiming to be a recent one of children being separated.
This Photo was taken under Obama.