Mom: Why raising my son made me question what female empowerment is doing to boys

[StLucieBengal]

(04-05-2018, 08:58 AM)Nately120 Wrote: The fact that we made Trump our leader has me a bit skeptical that we are on a path towards establishing respectful and meaningful relations between males and females .

Fair point

[StLucieBengal]

Some stats for fatherless homes. None of this would Be true if boys and girls could be raised the exact same way. Men and women Have a role within the family.

Quote:63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average.

90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average.

85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control)

80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26)

71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)

Father Factor in Education – Fatherless children are twice as likely to drop out of school.

Children with Fathers who are involved are 40% less likely to repeat a grade in school.
Children with Fathers who are involved are 70% less likely to drop out of school.
Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to get A’s in school.
Children with Fathers who are involved are more likely to enjoy school and engage in extracurricular activities.
75% of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes – 10 times the average.

Father Factor in Drug and Alcohol Abuse – Researchers at Columbia University found that children living in two-parent household with a poor relationship with their father are 68% more likely to smoke, drink, or use drugs compared to all teens in two-parent households. Teens in single mother households are at a 30% higher risk than those in two-parent households.

70% of youths in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (U.S. Dept. of Justice, Sept. 1988)

85% of all youths in prison come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Fulton Co. Georgia, Texas Dept. of Correction)

Father Factor in Incarceration – Even after controlling for income, youths in father-absent households still had significantly higher odds of incarceration than those in mother-father families. Youths who never had a father in the household experienced the highest odds. A 2002 Department of Justice survey of 7,000 inmates revealed that 39% of jail inmates lived in mother-only households. Approximately forty-six percent of jail inmates in 2002 had a previously incarcerated family member. One-fifth experienced a father in prison or jail.

Father Factor in Crime – A study of 109 juvenile offenders indicated that family structure significantly predicts delinquency. Adolescents, particularly boys, in single-parent families were at higher risk of status, property and person delinquencies. Moreover, students attending schools with a high proportion of children of single parents are also at risk. A study of 13,986 women in prison showed that more than half grew up without their father. Forty-two percent grew up in a single-mother household and sixteen percent lived with neither parent

Father Factor in Child Abuse – Compared to living with both parents, living in a single-parent home doubles the risk that a child will suffer physical, emotional, or educational neglect. The overall rate of child abuse and neglect in single-parent households is 27.3 children per 1,000, whereas the rate of overall maltreatment in two-parent households is 15.5 per 1,000.

Daughters of single parents without a Father involved are 53% more likely to marry as teenagers, 711% more likely to have children as teenagers, 164% more likely to have a pre-marital birth and 92% more likely to get divorced themselves.

Adolescent girls raised in a 2 parent home with involved Fathers are significantly less likely to be sexually active than girls raised without involved Fathers.

43% of US children live without their father [US Department of Census]

90% of homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes. [US D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census]

80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes. [Criminal Justice & Behaviour, Vol 14, pp. 403-26, 1978]

71% of pregnant teenagers lack a father. [U.S. Department of Health and Human Services press release, Friday, March 26, 1999]

63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes. [US D.H.H.S., Bureau of the Census]

85% of children who exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes. [Center for Disease Control]

90% of adolescent repeat arsonists live with only their mother. [Wray Herbert, “Dousing the Kindlers,” Psychology Today, January, 1985, p. 28]

71% of high school dropouts come from fatherless homes. [National Principals Association Report on the State of High Schools]

75% of adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes. [Rainbows f for all God’s Children]

70% of juveniles in state operated institutions have no father. [US Department of Justice, Special Report, Sept. 1988]

85% of youths in prisons grew up in a fatherless home. [Fulton County Georgia jail populations, Texas Department of Corrections, 1992]

Fatherless boys and girls are: twice as likely to drop out of high school; twice as likely to end up in jail; four times more likely to need help for emotional or behavioral problems. [US D.H.H.S. news release, March 26, 1999]

Census Fatherhood Statistics
64.3 million: Estimated number of fathers across the nation
26.5 million: Number of fathers who are part of married-couple families with their own children under the age of 18.
Among these fathers –
22 percent are raising three or more of their own children under 18 years old (among married-couple family households only).
2 percent live in the home of a relative or a non-relative.
2.5 million: Number of single fathers, up from 400,000 in 1970. Currently, among single parents living with their children, 18 percent are men.
Among these fathers –
8 percent are raising three or more of their own children under 18 years old.
42 percent are divorced, 38 percent have never married, 16 percent are separated and 4 percent are widowed. (The percentages of those divorced and never married are not significantly different from one another.)
16 percent live in the home of a relative or a non-relative.
27 percent have an annual family income of $50,000 or more.
85 percent: Among the 30.2 million fathers living with children younger than 18, the percentage who lived with their biological children only.
11 percent lived with step-children
4 percent with adopted children
< 1 percent with foster children
Recent policies encourage the development of programs designed to improve the economic status of low-income nonresident fathers and the financial and emotional support provided to their children. This brief provides ten key lessons from several important early responsible fatherhood initiatives that were developed and implemented during the 1990s and early 2000s. Formal evaluations of these earlier fatherhood efforts have been completed making this an opportune time to step back and assess what has been learned and how to build on the early programs’ successes and challenges.While the following statistics are formidable, the Responsible Fatherhood research literature generally supports the claim that a loving and nurturing father improves outcomes for children, families and communities.

Children with involved, loving fathers are significantly more likely to do well in school, have healthy self-esteem, exhibit empathy and pro-social behavior, and avoid high-risk behaviors such as drug use, truancy, and criminal activity compared to children who have uninvolved fathers.
Studies on parent-child relationships and child wellbeing show that father love is an important factor in predicting the social, emotional, and cognitive development and functioning of children and young adults.
24 million children (34 percent) live absent their biological father.
Nearly 20 million children (27 percent) live in single-parent homes.
43 percent of first marriages dissolve within fifteen years; about 60 percent of divorcing couples have children; and approximately one million children each year experience the divorce of their parents.
Fathers who live with their children are more likely to have a close, enduring relationship with their children than those who do not.
Compared to children born within marriage, children born to cohabiting parents are three times as likely to experience father absence, and children born to unmarried, non-cohabiting parents are four times as likely to live in a father-absent home.
About 40 percent of children in father-absent homes have not seen their father at all during the past year; 26 percent of absent fathers live in a different state than their children; and 50 percent of children living absent their father have never set foot in their father’s home.
Children who live absent their biological fathers are, on average, at least two to three times more likely to be poor, to use drugs, to experience educational, health, emotional and behavioral problems, to be victims of child abuse, and to engage in criminal behavior than their peers who live with their married, biological (or adoptive) parents.
From 1995 to 2000, the proportion of children living in single-parent homes slightly declined, while the proportion of children living with two married parents remained stable.

[*Nately120*]

(04-05-2018, 12:14 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Fair point

I will say there might be some hope for the future since he's more popular with old folks.  Er...younger people just voted for the candidate who trashed the women her husband assaulted.  Hmm...sticky wicket, this.

[fredtoast]

(04-05-2018, 12:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Some stats for fatherless homes.  None of this would Be true if boys and girls could be raised the exact same way.  Men and women Have a role within the family.

Having a father in the home has nothing to do with raising boys and girls the same way.  There is no connection.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-05-2018, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Having a father in the home has nothing to do with raising boys and girls the same way.  There is no connection.

They are different. If there was no difference then a mother could do what a father could. A father is different because they are raised differently than mothers. Which is why you do. Not raise boys and girls the same.

[fredtoast]

(04-05-2018, 03:12 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They are different. If there was no difference then a mother could do what a father could.   A father is different because they are raised differently than mothers.  Which is why you do. Not raise boys and girls the same.

The difference between a father and a mother is not the way they are raised.

The stats about children with no fathers has nothing to do with the way the father and mother were raised.  Unless you are claiming that until now every father has been raise exactly the same and every mother has been raised exactly the same.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-05-2018, 04:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The difference between a father and a mother is not the way they are raised.

The stats about children with no fathers has nothing to do with the way the father and mother were raised.  Unless you are claiming that until now every father has been raise exactly the same and every mother has been raised exactly the same.

You need to raise boys and girls differently. If you could raise them the same then then children growing up in single parent homes would not be so terrible. The fact is both are needed because each are raised differently to enhance what. Is a. Man and what is a woman.

[StLucieBengal]

http://www.docrobin.com/the-difference-between-raising-boys-and-girls/

Quote:The difference between raising boys and girls
Smiling young kids

Photo: Martin Yaffe

Marge and Phil have two children­ Ryan age 12 and Natalie, age 8. While Natalie seems to respond to a reasoned approach, discussing her behaviour, using a critical tone, firmness, this doesn’t work at all with Ryan and he’s 4 years older. They don’t understand how two children can be so different.

Sex differences are very real and I believe we need to parent our daughters differently than our sons. It has taken me many years to understand fully why such a marked difference in parenting styles is necessary for boys and girls. What I have learned so far is that boys and girls value different things, or at least have prioritized their values differently. For girls, the most important thing is relationship, while boys respect action. I used to think boys cared more for things and objects, while girls cared more about people, which was somewhat derogatory towards the male sex and which always left me with some degree of discomfort, until I realized it was not things they valued but action and somehow this was infinitely better.

The difference between boys and girls may seem obvious but with respect to parenting it is not always as clear as one might think. Most people seem to prefer the parenting style more appropriate for girls­ that is, talking. The prevailing view is that one should just have to speak in rational tones and at most sharpen your tone and the child will comply. Well, when this works, it seems to work much more frequently with girls. Most boys require a different approach. This, I believe, is one of the reasons that boys turn up at counselling centres at a rate three times higher than girls.

I need to preface any discussion on sex differences with a disclaimer that statements about the differences between boys and girls does not apply to all. For the most part, studies on sex differences suggest that about 2/3 of all boys behave in the manner used to describe male behaviour and about 3/4 of all girls behave in the way most girls behave. Thus, when we are describing the differences between boys and girls we are making statements that apply to most but not all boys and girls. Since these statements do apply to a wide segment of the population they are still useful to make but there will be exceptions.

In a study on sex differences a video camera was placed on the playground watching 4th graders. What was seen was that boys and girls rarely played together primarily because their style of play was so different. The girls made good eye contact with each other and they were much easier about making concessions and accommodations in order to “just be together.” It didn’t seem to matter to the girls what they did, as long as they were with the people they wanted. On the other hand, the boys rarely made eye contact with each other; in fact, they actively avoided it. They liked to jostle each other and make a kind of random physical contact, brushing each other’s shoulders in a playful jocular way. They show a lot of interest in each other’s toys and accomplishments. For boys, it’s the activity that’s going on, the sport, the action that’s important. In my office, when the parents and I are trying to convince a socially isolated young boy to call up a friend or engage with someone socially, the first question which comes to his mind is “What will we do? What kind of toys will he have at his home?” The girls, on the other hand, will ask “Who will I call?” and “Will she be busy playing with someone else?”

It is very clear from all studies in the field that girls acquire verbal skills at a faster rate than boys, and in fact, by the time they enter school are one to two years above boys. This is one of the reasons they adjust more easily to the school environment. It is not surprising then that girls respond more to a verbal approach­ talking things out. On the other hand, from very early on boys are more involved in the action of life. They simply do more and speak less. They play with action. They make sounds associated with action. They buy action figures. They respect the deed more than the word. As adults we often say that Actions speak louder than words.” Boys are simply playing out or dramatizing this bit of human wisdom.

In the book A Prayer for Owen Meany by John Irving a young boy accidentally kills the mother or his best friend and a woman who was more a mother to him than his own mother. This is a horrible, unspeakable act. The words “I’m sorry,” hardly suffice. The young boy travels to the orphaned boy’s home carrying a stuffed armadillo, which both boys had fought over and cherished. In fact, the young boy had also taken this object because it was so cherished and he wanted it badly. He rides his bicycle over to the orphaned boy’s house and deposits the armadillo on his porch and leaves. In this one action he says much­ I admit to stealing your armadillo. I know how much you value it. I am giving you something that we both value greatly in order to say how sorry I am. The words alone, I am sorry, do not even come close to conveying all the meanings embedded in this one action. The world of action is rich with meaning and the examples too numerous to mention here.

So what does this all mean with respect to parenting? A great deal. Boys respect action because mere words often “go in one ear and out the other.” It’s just a bunch of meaningless words to them and one is wasting one’s breath and energy if that is your only tool. We must think action. Unfortunately when parents think of action too often our thoughts turn to spanking or hitting of some form. There are many intermediary steps between talking at one end and spanking at the other.

In our work at the centre we typically have family meetings where the worker meets with the family and the supervisor and myself are a part of the meeting. We have a large blackboard which the children often use when they are bored or when we want to talk about things that don’t pertaint to them or don’t require their participation. We also use this board to explain things, draw simple scales or graphs to make concepts clearer. I am always amazed at what happens when the worker stands up and goes to the board. Remember many more of our clients are boys. The adults have been talking and the children are usually bored and restless, fidgeting in their seats. Then all of a sudden, from the child’s point of view, something happens. Someone gets up and goes to the bored and starts drawing something ­- something novel and interesting. The children’s behaviour usually changes from disinterest to rapt attention. They sit up and everyone is focussed on the board. It is quite a transformation. The worker has the children’s attention. She also has the adults’s attention so they often don’t notice the change in the child’s behaviour unless it is pointed out to them. So, simply a shift to something concrete and visual, as opposed to something abstract and verbal, makes a huge difference.

Another form of action is stickers or stars or check marks or anything which is concrete. Instead of talk talk talk, the adult says “O.K. that means you get a sticker, or you don’t get a sticker, or you lose a sticker.” I know, I know, giving or taking away stickers is not exactly as interesting or entertaining for the adult. We want to find the right things to say that will make a difference. That’s more fun for us. But it’s not what works for the kids, especially the boys. Giving or taking away stickers is not only an action, but it is an action which endures. If one gives a sticker, it remains a visible sign of merit, of accomplishment, for as long as that sticker remains in view for all to see. Words evaporate and disappear, leading to the classic refrain, “You didn’t, Yes I did, No you didn’t, and on and on.” And since there is no record of the event, there is no proof and children know this, it seems, better than most adults.

As well, if you say you’re going to do something and then you don’t, one’s credibility goes down the drain. Why? Because boys respect the action more than the words and when you don’t follow through, by doing what you say, then you haven’t acted and hence you have done very little and you are ignored or dismissed. From the adults perspective you feel unloved and disrespected. This is in fact true but not for the reasons you think. Change your behaviour, or behave more and talk less and you will be respected more. Many parents run into difficulty when they have a girl first and their preferred style of parenting worked well with the girl. Then they have a boy and find it doesn’t work at all. They tend to blame the boy for not responding to their tried and true parenting approach- see, it worked for Susie. Boys need different parenting approaches than girls.

When the idea of a behaviour chart is introduced in sessions, the children typically become very enthusiastic and positive. I believe, from their point of view, they think, At last, someone is going to do something instead of just talking and shouting.” They typically offer helpful suggestions and want to get this thing started as quickly as possible to introduce some clarity into their world. Chart systems typically seem to work for a while with families and then they are discarded. But what I have observed is that it is parents who give up on them, not children. The parents get bored with them and find them a dull, bank clerk manner of parenting. True the children try to manipulate the system, but instead of seeing that there is a system in place which was working but needs to be changed and evolve so that everyone continues to benefit from it, like changing the rewards or making it more difficult to attain more interesting rewards, the parents often give up on the system altogether.

To the adults who say that a system of rewards is using “bribery” I say, do you feel that getting paid by your employer is bribery? Why don’t we get tired of working for money? Because the material world is always coming up with more and better things for us to want and buy. If it didn’t we would have all that we need by the time we are 30 and money would become less important to us? I don’t want to get off on a tangent here about our materialistic values and whether they are serving us or not, but as long as we live in a world where money is valued and we continue to work hard for it, we cannot complain that a similar system works well for our children.

With girls it all works quite differently. If we express that we are cross with them and even get to the point where we “don’t want to see them until they can behave better,” they are often so worried about the relationship itself that they will get their behaviour under control. They may try to use their superior verbal skills to defend themselves and argue their points and their merits, try to blame another sibling, but in the end if we maintain our position, they will comply because relationship is everything to them. Girls maintain the belief that talk alone can change the nature of a relationship. Many more women girls enter into psychotherapy as adults, willingly, than men, and it is more often the mothers who bring their sons. If psychotherapy is to be successful with the boys, we must be more action oriented and less verbal.

Fathers, in general, use a more action oriented approach­ “Show me by your actions you are sorry,” hence they are often more successful gaining compliance from their sons. I believe the explanation offered here makes more sense than the one often given, which is that fathers have a deeper voice. It is also more hopeful, in that few mothers have considered altering their voice box. One can, much more easily, begin to think from a male perspective and use the language of action and hence be more understood by our sons.

In summary, boys respect action and not words. Maybe it’s because they’re not as good with the words as the girls are. Maybe it’s because actions simply speak louder and more clearly. For whatever reason, if we want to have their respect we have to do what they respect and act more clearly so they get the message. Girls do respect the words because through words we express our relationship with others.

[GMDino]

(04-06-2018, 02:26 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: http://www.docrobin.com/the-difference-between-raising-boys-and-girls/

Quite the word salad to say every kid responds differently to things...and then use that to say boy s are always one way and girls are always the other.

[fredtoast]

(04-06-2018, 02:16 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You need to raise boys and girls differently.  If you could raise them the same then then children growing up in single parent homes would not be so terrible.  The fact is both are needed because each are raised differently to enhance what. Is a. Man and what is a woman.

You are making a connection that does not exist.

The benfit a child gets from having both a mother and a father is not based on how the mother and father were raised.

[fredtoast]

(04-06-2018, 02:26 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: http://www.docrobin.com/the-difference-between-raising-boys-and-girls/

That artical says nothing about raising boys and girls for different roles or with different values.  All it deals with is the "technique" of teaching children.  

In fact the artical says nothing about a mother teaching a child any different than a father.  The technique it describes can be employed equally by either a mother or a father.

I agree that there are differences between men and women.  I don't agree that they should be riased for different roles in society or with different values.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-06-2018, 10:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That artical says nothing about raising boys and girls for different roles or with different values.  All it deals with is the "technique" of teaching children.  

In fact the artical says nothing about a mother teaching a child any different than a father.  The technique it describes can be employed equally by either a mother or a father.

I agree that there are differences between men and women.  I don't agree that they should be riased for different roles in society or with different values.

No one said anything about values except you. Stop trying to make this about more than what was stated.

You raise. It’s differently than you raise girls. You don’t raise them the same or you either get weak men or a woman Who behaves like a truck driver.

[fredtoast]

(04-06-2018, 11:25 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: No one said anything about values except you.   Stop trying to make this about more than what was stated.

Your belief that women are helpless and men are powerful protectors ARE values.

When  you teach your children this you are instilling your values.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-09-2018, 10:38 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Your belief that women are helpless and men are powerful protectors ARE values.

When  you teach your children this you are instilling your values.

You must not Understand what we are discussing. We all teach our children core values regardless of gender. None Of which say women are helpless. We also teach boys that it’s their job to stand up for women and their families. That’s not a value, that’s just part of raising a man.

[GMDino]

(04-09-2018, 03:24 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You must not Understand what we are discussing. We all teach our children core values regardless of gender.  None Of which say women are helpless.  We also teach boys that it’s their job to stand up for women and their families.  That’s not a value, that’s just part of raising a man.

Why aren't we teaching girls to stand up for themselves?

[StLucieBengal]

(04-09-2018, 03:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Why aren't we teaching girls to stand up for themselves?

Who isn’t doing that? Girls also need to know that it’s a mans job to protect as well. My girls know they need to stand up for themselves but they also know their husband needs to be a man who stands up as well. They learn this behavior but modeling my wife and I.

We teach them how to stand up but they need to know they shouldn’t have to stand up because their husband should be standing up for them and their family.

[GMDino]

(04-10-2018, 02:30 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Who isn’t doing that?  Girls also need to know that it’s a mans job to protect as well.   My girls know they need to stand up for themselves but they also know their husband needs to be a man who stands up as well.  They learn this behavior but modeling my wife and I.

We teach them how to stand up but they need to know they shouldn’t have to stand up because their husband should be standing up for them and their family.

Well that doesn't make any sense in the context of what I wrote.

If we teach our daughters that they can stand on their own they don't need to "know" they need a man to protect them.  

In general I agree that a man and woman should stand up for each other but this concept of they "need" a man to stand up for them is where we differ.  That is essentially teach a girl that while she can be her own person she should really differ to her husband (or man) because that's HIS job.  She should sit quietly and let him do it.

And, to me, that's one of the more moronic ideas every put forth on this board.

I was raised by a stay at home mom.  My dad worked (still does). That was the deal they agreed on when they got married. He was what you would consider a "real man". Hunted, worked in a factory, worked on a farm, served in the military, etc. He's a perfect example of a "good" or "proper" man.  

But I'll give you a bit of advice about my mom:  She can CERTAINLY stand up for herself and I'd bet a weeks worth of your salary you would back right down from all 5'4" of her! 

No one needed to tell her that she "needed" her man to stand up and protect her.  Dad certainly would and did...but they also did things as a team.  Equal members. Not one with a "role" that ad to be played out.  And I respect them a lot more for it.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-10-2018, 07:18 AM)GMDino Wrote: Well that doesn't make any sense in the context of what I wrote.

If we teach our daughters that they can stand on their own they don't need to "know" they need a man to protect them.  

In general I agree that a man and woman should stand up for each other but this concept of they "need" a man to stand up for them is where we differ.  That is essentially teach a girl that while she can be her own person she should really differ to her husband (or man) because that's HIS job.  She should sit quietly and let him do it.

And, to me, that's one of the more moronic ideas every put forth on this board.

I was raised by a stay at home mom.  My dad worked (still does). That was the deal they agreed on when they got married. He was what you would consider a "real man". Hunted, worked in a factory, worked on a farm, served in the military, etc. He's a perfect example of a "good" or "proper" man.  

But I'll give you a bit of advice about my mom:  She can CERTAINLY stand up for herself and I'd bet a weeks worth of your salary you would back right down from all 5'4" of her! 

No one needed to tell her that she "needed" her man to stand up and protect her.  Dad certainly would and did...but they also did things as a team.  Equal members. Not one with a "role" that ad to be played out.  And I respect them a lot more for it.

When you do things as a team, each member of the team has a role. Sounds like you grew up with a normal and productive family setup.

We teach our daughters that they need a man because they have a role in a family as well. When you disregard their role and take it over you show. That they aren’t Needed. Which leads to many more problems.

[GMDino]

(04-10-2018, 09:51 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: When you do things as a team, each member of the team has a role.  Sounds like you grew up with a normal and productive family setup.  

We teach our daughters that they need a man because they have a role in a family as well.   When you disregard their role and take it over you show. That they aren’t Needed.   Which leads to many more problems.

I don't think you are using the word "need" correctly.  It's good to have...but not "needed" to have a "productive family set up".

When you disregard half the team as not "needing" to do something you create problems.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-10-2018, 09:55 AM)GMDino Wrote: I don't think you are using the word "need" correctly.  It's good to have...but not "needed" to have a "productive family set up".

When you disregard half the team as not "needing" to do something you create problems.

Stats show that children without mothers and fathers in the home are most likely to suffer in almost every facet of life as adults.

When you just do the other persons role/job they stop showing up for work. Besides who wants an unqualified person doing a job they aren’t intended to do.