More "largely peaceful" Portland protests

[GMDino]

(08-15-2020, 10:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I watched the video, and it didn't match the written portrayal.  YOU chose to propagate it as the real deal, so I criticize you.

(08-16-2020, 12:48 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Some would call this logic.  

Some would call it a violation of the PNR 2.0 rules. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-17-2020, 09:27 AM)GMDino Wrote: Some would call it a violation of the PNR 2.0 rules. 

You can't criticize someone's position because of forum rules?

[Dill]

(08-16-2020, 08:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, this was a fun response for me to read because I was a punk rock kid in the late-nineties through the aughts. I came of age during this era and we cared a lot about where the weed, beer, and chicks were. It's always funny for me to think back to this time because I was an Eagle Scout, a gamer nerd, and a punk rock kid all in one package. But on top of all of that I was an activist, even back then.

Punk is protest music. Living the punk rock life is a protest in itself. We cared about social justice, we cared about climate change, we cared about unjust wars. Fat Mike put out the Rock Against Bush tours for a reason. When every generation comes of age there are cultures within it that care about these things. What we're seeing now is more about a greater societal shift, but rest assured that the youth in the nineties were out there caring about this stuff while getting high as shit and ***** their partners.

(08-16-2020, 07:21 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: Young people just don't get any anymore.  I don't know if they are too risk averse, can't handle rejection, or what. Maybe the young guys are scared of trying to pick up women, so they take it out on small business owners.  I don't know.  

When I came of age in the 90's, this was all we cared about as teenagers.  "Where is the party, whose getting the beer and weed, and whose going to invite the chicks?"  We didn't give a sh1t about social justice or climate change.  

I am glad I am 41 right now instead of 14, that's for sure. 

(08-16-2020, 08:23 PM)samhain Wrote: I grew up in and around whatever excuse there was for a punk rock scene in the Greater Cincinnati area.  We went to shows, clubs, and parties where we'd run into truly radical (or so they believed) characters.  Most of us were pretty left-wing people, but the people I'm talking about just had a different air about themselves.  They were extremely judgy and militant about their sense of what was acceptable in the "scene" or in political discourse.  They were, at times violent, and the potential was always there.  Here's the thing though: even in that environment, these people stood out as being a little or a lot "off".  Just something in their eyes and the way they carried themselves.  One of them got on me for something dumb, like eating meat or wearing the wrong shoes outside a club once, and my response to his disdain was to tell him that if I wanted a book of strict rules to follow, I'd have joined an evangelical youth group.  He didn't like that much.

The people I talk about here are the same ones I imagine are out in the streets.  Misguided, lost, no direction.  Not even able to allow themselves to have fun.  Their cause/politics are their identity because it's all they see themselves as.

Yow! I graduated in '69. From a little HS in Montana. No punk rock scene that I recall. 

I think there might have been a war and some protests or something. Stuff to care about I guess.

Interesting listening to your recall from the 90s, though. 

[Dill]

(08-16-2020, 02:34 AM)Von Cichlid Wrote: The only thing I do know is that this is happening in Portland, Oregon of all possible places.  This is a place that you don't think of when it comes to an excessive police presence.  They don't have a substantial Black population either.  

I could understand this happening in NYC, Chicago, LA, Detroit, and Minneapolis.  But not Portland.

That leaves the question then:  Why has Portland (and Seattle to a lesser extent) become the epicenter of this?  

Here is my best guess, and I will say this is pure speculation on my part:

In the bigger cities I mentioned, I think the police departments are very large and well equipped due to the longtime presence of gangs.

I don't think of Portland as a city that is well equipped to deal with large waves of crime.  I always thought of it as a peace and love kind of liberal utopia.  I may be completely wrong here, that is just the image I always had.

The reason I lumped college campuses into the equation is that antifa has had a history of gathering and causing some turmoil at what are considered liberal universities.  This leads me to believe they felt comfortable in doing their thing at those places because of the fact that they perceived their views as supported in those locations.  As antifa is involved in Portland too, college classes and what is going on in Portland were linked in my mind, perhaps erroneously.    

This seems like a good analysis to me. 

I have a little familiarity with Seattle, having lived there in '79-'80. I was there when, advancing budget cuts, the Washington state expelled a number of patients from its mental health institutions. In a few weeks there were homeless people wandering downtown and sleeping on the streets--often in very unhygienic conditions. 

I haven't been there since '89, but now I understand that it has for years been home to "tent cities" and the like sheltering runaways and especially drug addicts. So as I understand it, on the street level in many places there are unsavory folks selling and doing drugs and behaving rudely towards citizens. City laws make it hard for police to arrest and hold people possessing and selling, so they tend to ignore the police. So police morale was pretty bad BEFORE the Floyd protests and CHOP. Now there was a riot yesterday from which 18 were arrested.  

I imagine this is going to re-arrange the city government in coming elections, though. 

I don't know much about Portland, but given its reputation as a peaceful city full of counter cultural types, it does not surprise me if it has not developed an anti-riot force, then found itself suddenly confronted with a higher density of people ready to take to the streets for social justice issues than, say, Omaha or Tulsa OK. And quickly leavened with Anti-fa opportunists.  Two big 10 universities in that state. 20 or so anarchists from each could tip a peaceful protest of thousands into a riot. 

[Von Cichlid]

(08-17-2020, 04:43 PM)Dill Wrote: I don't know much about Portland, but given its reputation as a peaceful city full of counter cultural types, it does not surprise me if it has not developed an anti-riot force, then found itself suddenly confronted with a higher density of people ready to take to the streets for social justice issues than, say, Omaha or Tulsa OK. And quickly leavened with Anti-fa opportunists.  Two big 10 universities in that state. 20 or so anarchists from each could tip a peaceful protest of thousands into a riot. 

Oregon and Oregon St. joined the Big 10?  Damn, even they're trying to disassociate themselves from this mess.  


In all seriousness though, this is some disgusting stuff.  I just saw some video of some people and in particular one man getting pummeled by some...   protesters last night in Portland.  The streets look trashed.  I shouldn't have watched it because I was having a pretty good day so far.  81 days and running.   

If people want to see the video, they know what mainstream news site they can go to, and they also know on which two news sites they will not find it.

[Dill]

(08-17-2020, 10:03 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: Oregon and Oregon St. joined the Big 10?  Damn, even they're trying to disassociate themselves from this mess.  

In all seriousness though, this is some disgusting stuff.  I just saw some video of some people and in particular one man getting pummeled by some...   protesters last night in Portland.  The streets look trashed.  I shouldn't have watched it because I was having a pretty good day so far.  81 days and running.   

If people want to see the video, they know what mainstream news site they can go to, and they also know on which two news sites they will not find it.

LOL sorry, Pac 12. Actually I was thinking of the Pac 10 when I wrote that, as that's what it was for decades.

I still want to know who is rioting in Portland. Where are they from; what is their motivation?  I don't want to speculate. I want something concrete to go on--education, socio-economic background, education (which schools, when, how far advanced), organizations, manifestos, mugshots. There needs to be multiple inevestigative journalists on this. At least on from the NYT and/or Rolling Stone. Someone who will do a lot of walking, interview parents, friends and teachers. That much depth.

[Von Cichlid]

(08-17-2020, 10:15 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL sorry, Pac 12. Actually I was thinking of the Pac 10 when I wrote that, as that's what it was for decades.

I still want to know who is rioting in Portland. Where are they from; what is their motivation?  I don't want to speculate. I want something concrete to go on--education, socio-economic background, education (which schools, when, how far advanced), organizations, manifestos, mugshots. There needs to be multiple inevestigative journalists on this. At least on from the NYT and/or Rolling Stone. Someone who will do a lot of walking, interview parents, friends and teachers. That much depth.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6181881865001#sp=show-clips   


If you watch the video (there are longer versions out there) you will see a couple of antifa types with the black helmets.  The guy that did the kick looked to be a long haired white dude around the age of 30.  Apparently reporters are the ones who shot the video, but the perpetrators didn't stick around to answer questions.

The kicker will hopefully get the book thrown at him as widespread as this video is right now.  When that happens, it won't be Rolling Stone doing the questioning.  

Hopefully with enough convincing, police could get him to give some insight as to the origins of what made him do it and other groups involved.

FWIW, nobody looked like college kids in any video I've seen. 

At this point, I don't know what ends this.  "Abolish the police" is the only concrete demand they make.  (I will not say reparations because this is clearly well beyond BLM by now.)  81 days has to be some kind of record.  I'd blame much of this on the shutdown for COVID-19 as anything else.  If people had something productive to do you would not be seeing this, along with the crime waves in many other parts of the country.

 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-17-2020, 11:10 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: https://video.foxnews.com/v/6181881865001#sp=show-clips   


If you watch the video (there are longer versions out there) you will see a couple of antifa types with the black helmets.  The guy that did the kick looked to be a long haired white dude around the age of 30.  Apparently reporters are the ones who shot the video, but the perpetrators didn't stick around to answer questions.

The kicker will hopefully get the book thrown at him as widespread as this video is right now.  When that happens, it won't be Rolling Stone doing the questioning.

I've been very busy on my end, but didn't the victim in that video die?  Very peaceful, kicking a man in the head from behind.  Very tolerant and progressive. 

Quote:Hopefully with enough convincing, police could get him to give some insight as to the origins of what made him do it and other groups involved.

FWIW, nobody looked like college kids in any video I've seen. 

At this point, I don't know what ends this.  "Abolish the police" is the only concrete demand they make.  (I will not say reparations because this is clearly well beyond BLM by now.)  81 days has to be some kind of record.  I'd blame much of this on the shutdown for COVID-19 as anything else.  If people had something productive to do you would not be seeing this, along with the crime waves in many other parts of the country. 

Speaking about Los Angeles only, for which I have first hand experience, there is a mad scramble to reduce all arrests to less serious crimes, especially when it comes to juvenile crime.  They're fudging the numbers big time, trying to look like the crime wave that's happening isn't happening.  I have zero doubt, based on accounts from close friends, that this isn't happening in exactly the same way in other cities.  If only the victims of such crimes got the benefit of such reduced criminal charges.

[Von Cichlid]

(08-18-2020, 12:09 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I've been very busy on my end, but didn't the victim in that video die?  Very peaceful, kicking a man in the head from behind.  Very tolerant and progressive.
 

I did a quick google search and nothing is coming up about it.  I hope he recovers.  That they did that right in front of reporters, cameras and everything is what really gets me.  No fear of any consequence, no fear of God, and no regard for the law.    

The perpetrator may or may not have been associated, but I will say there is nothing progressive about antifa.  They are representing pure, lawless anarchy to an extent that I can't ever remember seeing in this country, only in the movies.  They are not even primitive, but rather post-civilization, if that makes sense.

If they are the primary ones turning these protests into riots each night, then they have to be dealt with somehow.  What's happening in Portland is surreal.  I don't understand how they can't get that situation under control.  


     

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Since the riots aren't dying this thread won't die either.

BLM activists chase down truck trying to escape the mob and brutally beat the occupants. If you haven't seen the video, it's rather brutal.

https://heavy.com/news/2020/08/portland-man-kicked-in-head-assaults-video/

"Largely Peaceful". Where were the "Moms" forming a barrier between the protesters and the police? We heard so much about them.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

More "largely peaceful" Portland protests.

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2020/08/portland-protests-continue-for-84th-night-block-traffic-from-sw-macadam-live-updates.html

Good thing the Feds left, that calmed everything right down.

Good thing the local government finally took action against this behavior that has been going on for months. Oh wait, they haven't.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

The attacker in the video above has a lengthy criminal history.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/19/accused-portland-attacker-marquise-love-has-a-lengthy-rap-sheet/

I wonder why he wants to defund the police? Without police he can beat his girlfriends with impunity. He's exactly the kind of guy I'd want to associate myself with.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-21-2020, 10:10 AM)GMDino Wrote: I thought you were for more of what you propose there: criticizing a "position" versus criticizing the "person" as Sunset said he was doing.

You can absolutely criticize a person for their position as well.  If someone came on here and claimed that "X" ethnicity was inferior do you not think that people would question their character?

Quote:Anyway nice to see the Proud Boys have their defenders around here still.

Oooo, you little rascal, I see what you did there.  I'll defend anyone's right to peacefully protest (although we know I'm not big on that outside someone's private residence).  I'll also defend the right of anyone who is physically attacked to defend themselves.

But back to your "topic"

[/url]

Quote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/07/31/portland-protests-federal-calm/
Trump ordered federal forces to quell Portland protests. But the chaos ended as soon as they left.

It did?  This article is from 07/31.  it's almost a month later and the riots continue on a nightly basis.  Loks like your article is insanely biased and demonstrably false.

Quote:[url=https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/protests/oregon-state-police-to-step-in-for-federal-officers-at-portland-protests/283-19c8fc98-5be1-479e-a9f3-07eb76000450]https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/protests/oregon-state-police-to-step-in-for-federal-officers-at-portland-protests/283-19c8fc98-5be1-479e-a9f3-07eb76000450
Calm night of protests in Portland after Oregon State Police step in for federal officers

This article is from 07/30.  You're really staying current here.  This reeks a bit of desperation.

Quote:Just a couple of the article about the actual peaceful protests.

Sure, the protests are "largely peaceful", except when they aren't on a nightly basis.

Here's something a bit more current than almost a month ago, it's from last night.

https://www.koin.com/news/protests/ongoing-portland-protests-fanning-out-across-the-city/

Then on Tuesday, the Multnomah County Building on SE Hawthorne, which is, as Chair Deborah Kafoury said, “the place where people get married, come to get their passports, and come to celebrate their cultural traditions,” was vandalized during another riot.

There are also reports of planned clashes at different parts of the city this weekend.

I thought the riots stopped after the Feds left?  You just told us this.  What happened?  

Quote:But I get where you are coming from.  If the only tool you have is a hammer then you think everything looks like a nail.  If you are trained to handle the worst of people you start to see only the worst.

I get it Dino, you're painted into a corner here.  You can't defend the rioting and attacks that occur every night so you have to divert to the more "peaceful" protests that occur during the day.  What was your logic about always posting about negative behavior by LEO's?  Something about shining a light on the bad behavior and hoping that the good officers would turn in the bad or curtail them.  Yet, for some reason, you don't like when the same type of spotlight is turned on the "largely peaceful" protesters and their nightly felonious activity.  I guess priorities and all, eh?

[GMDino]

(08-21-2020, 12:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You can absolutely criticize a person for their position as well.  If someone came on here and claimed that "X" ethnicity was inferior do you not think that people would question their character?



Oooo, you little rascal, I see what you did there.  I'll defend anyone's right to peacefully protest (although we know I'm not big on that outside someone's private residence).  I'll also defend the right of anyone who is physically attacked to defend themselves.

But back to your "topic"

[/url]

It did?  This article is from 07/31.  it's almost a month later and the riots continue on a nightly basis.  Loks like your article is insanely biased and demonstrably false.

[url=https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/protests/oregon-state-police-to-step-in-for-federal-officers-at-portland-protests/283-19c8fc98-5be1-479e-a9f3-07eb76000450]

This article is from 07/30.  You're really staying current here.  This reeks a bit of desperation.




Sure, the protests are "largely peaceful", except when they aren't on a nightly basis.

Here's something a bit more current than almost a month ago, it's from last night.

https://www.koin.com/news/protests/ongoing-portland-protests-fanning-out-across-the-city/

Then on Tuesday, the Multnomah County Building on SE Hawthorne, which is, as Chair Deborah Kafoury said, “the place where people get married, come to get their passports, and come to celebrate their cultural traditions,” was vandalized during another riot.

There are also reports of planned clashes at different parts of the city this weekend.

I thought the riots stopped after the Feds left?  You just told us this.  What happened?  


I get it Dino, you're painted into a corner here.  You can't defend the rioting and attacks that occur every night so you have to divert to the more "peaceful" protests that occur during the day.  What was your logic about always posting about negative behavior by LEO's?  Something about shining a light on the bad behavior and hoping that the good officers would turn in the bad or curtail them.  Yet, for some reason, you don't like when the same type of spotlight is turned on the "largely peaceful" protesters and their nightly felonious activity.  I guess priorities and all, eh?

So here's the thing S...I never defended the violent scenes or actions.  Never.

I acknowledged that they happened but don't represent the movement as a whole.

No amount of examples will change your mind because you are laser focused on the bad guys rather than the protests in general.  I get that.

I tried to give you an opportunity to say as much but you can't.  And I get that too.  You have an agenda that is influenced by your training and how you "see" things.  Cool beans.

Rather than be accused of things I didn't say or do I'll just let you have the last word.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-21-2020, 01:23 PM)GMDino Wrote: So here's the thing S...I never defended the violent scenes or actions.  Never.

Don't really see you condemning them either.  I do see you blaming Trump for them though.

Quote:I acknowledged that they happened but don't represent the movement as a whole.

They absolutely do, and you know why?  Because no one is condemning them on a regular basis.  In fact, some within the exact movement have defended rioting and looting as "reparations".  So, sorry to have to tell you, they absolutely represent the movement as a whole.

Quote:No amount of examples will change your mind because you are laser focused on the bad guys rather than the protests in general.  I get that.

Yet you don't mind the exact same focus when it comes to your threads about law enforcement.  Why is that?

Quote:I tried to give you an opportunity to say as much but you can't.  And I get that too.  You have an agenda that is influenced by your training and how you "see" things.  Cool beans.

No, I don't say things that aren't true, you are correct on that front.  I have an agenda that is based on facts and evidence.  I won't pretend I don't have a personal stake in this discussion, that would be ridiculous.  But seeing as you can't punch any holes in my argument I'd say I'm on rather solid footing here.

Quote:Rather than be accused of things I didn't say or do I'll just let you have the last word.

Did you run out of month old articles to post?  I appreciate the "last word" and all, but I would like to give you a final opportunity to condemn the nightly rioting in Portland and ask why the mayor of that city continues to sit on his thumbs.  

Can anyone other than Dino explain the complete lack of action from the mayor of Portland?  Months of nightly rioting and he's done nothing.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

The attacker in the above video has turned himself in.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/21/accused-portland-attacker-marquise-love-has-been-arrested/

Also, the man he tried to kill claims he was attacked because he is white. Hate crime enhancement incoming?

https://nypost.com/2020/08/20/portland-driver-believes-he-was-attacked-because-he-is-white/

[NATI BENGALS]

Wow. Just saw some videos from earlier today. Gotta say Trump’s America is the ugliest America I have ever seen.

[NATI BENGALS]

Why would anybody vote for another 4 years of this?

Maybe just maybe his divisive constant shit talking isn’t a great leadership trait and it has really worked on bringing the ugly out in people.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-23-2020, 01:58 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Wow. Just saw some videos from earlier today. Gotta say Trump’s America is the ugliest America I have ever seen.

Way to advocate for personal responsibility.  These riots are the fault of the rioters and only the rioters.

(08-23-2020, 02:03 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Why would anybody vote for another 4 years of this?

Maybe just maybe his divisive constant shit talking isn’t a great leadership trait and it has really worked on bringing the ugly out in people.

I tend to hold individuals responsible for their own actions.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Riots continued last night.

https://www.portlandoregon.gov/police/news/read.cfm?id=261128