We've now entered the "murder suspect shoots himself in the head in front of cops, time to riot, loot, and burn down our city" phase of the "largely peaceful protests".
Why, after almost three straight months of nightly violence has he had enough? Well the source above speculates;
The final straw appears to have been when rioters brought their violence to his doorstep. After weeks of smashing windows and lighting small fires at police buildings, the federal courthouse and other public offices, protesters marched on Portland’s city hall Tuesday night, breaking in and scrawling graffiti.
Seriously, Wheeler is a cowardly turd. It's ok when his constituents have to deal with daily violence and the city's officers have to deal with being attacked on a daily basis. The minute he became personally affected it was time for this to stop!
(08-27-2020, 05:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: We've now entered the "murder suspect shoots himself in the head in front of cops, time to riot, loot, and burn down our city" phase of the "largely peaceful protests".
When you have public officials (and some here) excusing the riots and looting while simultaneously condemning law enforcement this is the end result. It's almost like creating a "safe space" for criminals emboldens them to commit more crime.
(08-27-2020, 05:01 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If the shooting shouldn't have happened then the correct steps should be taken. A shooting isn't incorrect because you think it is or because a mob of people choose to believe it is.
Acting in "self defense" against the police? If you're talking about in other cases, I don't know anyone here who has been inconsistent in stating we should wait for actual facts before reaching a conclusion, regardless of the ethnicity of the person involved.
No, they wouldn't and Chicago is proof of this. The police shot a guy after he opened fire on them. Riots and looting promptly followed. It's not about whether it was a justified shooting or not anymore, it's just ACAB.
Now, you're finally being honest. No more hiding behind "I have respect for law enforcement."
Maybe not "all of them"? Seriously, you're off the deep end on this subject. Please don't ever try and tell me you have any respect for law enforcement. I knew it wasn't true in the past, but it's blatantly obvious now.
Yeah, first you don't know me and your opinion based on your interpretation of my words means nothing. To me or at all. The only reason I justified it with a response is because I won't be accused of something like that in a public forum.
On topic: Justified acts by the police don't get a fair shake from some because of the cases Like Taylor and Floyd. That's what I said. If there is no movement for change from both sides every case will reignite the embers of protest.
I fully understand that you have two decades of experience in a field that gets a lot of flack for how it does it's job sometimes. I don't blame individuals for the mistakes and lack of change. But there needs to be a hard look at these things an movement made or the cycle will continue.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(08-27-2020, 05:32 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yeah, first you don't know me and your opinion based on your interpretation of my words means nothing. To me or at all. The only reason I justified it with a response is because I won't be accused of something like that in a public forum.
I didn't accuse you of anything, I made a statement. Your own words provided enough proof that any sort of accusation was unnecessary.
Quote:On topic: Justified acts by the police don't get a fair shake from some because of the cases Like Taylor and Floyd. That's what I said. If there is no movement for change from both sides every case will reignite the embers of protest.
You didn't say that until you just said it. Bel said it, not you.
Quote:I fully understand that you have two decades of experience in a field that gets a lot of flack for how it does it's job sometimes. I don't blame individuals for the mistakes and lack of change. But there needs to be a hard look at these things an movement made or the cycle will continue.
On this we agree, but your own words tell a different story.
(08-27-2020, 11:44 AM)GMDino Wrote: Each new incident whether there is an over reaction or not is just fuel to a fire that isn't being fought...just left to burn. Sometimes I think the police like it burning to justify what they do to minorities. Maybe Not all of them, but in a country where the leaders love to stoke the flames of fear for votes it sure would help them.
Just read the underlined and bolded. It's all the proof anyone needs. Quite honestly one of the most cringe inducing statements I've ever read on this, or the old, board. And that includes GA9 and all his iterations.
Again, "maybe not all of them"? Seriously sickening.
(08-27-2020, 09:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Back on topic, even the New York Times now has to acknowledge the corner the Dems have painted themselves into.
It's almost like people expect their elected officials to do their job and enforce the law rather than pander to a mob of riotous looters.
Everything the Democrats have done since 2016 has backfired.
1. Impeachment- Everybody saw that for the waste of time and resources it was.
2. Promotion of AOC and the squad as the new face of the party- That ended up being the reason they had to choose such a centrist like Biden in the first place.
3. Promoting the shutdown / lockdowns- You can't tell me that lack of productive activities is not contributing to this lawlessness. Many conservatives said "The cure should not be worse than the disease," from the get go and they were absolutely right.
4. Looping the Floyd murder for 2 straight weeks to stoke social justice protests in order to galvanize the youth in their party- backfired.
5. Pushing to defund the police- backfired. Demonizing the institution of law enforcement is a bad idea when they are the only thing standing between what we had before March versus the last 30 minutes of Apocalypse Now.
6. Flooding the airwaves with the idea that our country has been the scourge of human history since its inception.- When impressionable youth with no sense of world history hear that incessantly, then no wonder they want to burn the place down to the ground.
I cannot think of one positive thing the Democrats have done since 2016, and I'm supposed to believe Biden's going to right the ship?
The only real knock on Trump is his handling of COVID-19, but what could he have done? He was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.
If Trump would have pushed for total shutdown like the Dems act like they wanted, do you think the media would've supported that? No way. They would have used that as an example of his tyranny. If Trump wanted A, they would say B.
Hopefully that article is correct and enough people with the good enough sense to live productive lives will vote accordingly.
Am I the only one that seems to find the Blake shooting completely justified? Warrant out for his arrest. A history of domestic and sexual abuse. The police are specifically called to the area because of something he did. Resists arrest (with an apparent history of doing it before) and reaches into the floorboard of his car despite warnings from the police to stop. He should be glad he's even still alive.
I do hope this will bring about a change in his life and he is able to walk again, but damn man it was literally a series of steps of him doing things continuously in a row that led to him getting shot. Yet it's the police fault.
Waiting for the well the police should have been trained to handle the situation better responses.
Here's a good breakdown from Donut Operator on the Rittenhouse shootings.
Still a lot to sift through, such as what proceeded the first video, but I don't see how you get a murder 1 charge out of this. Seems like a classic overcharge to placate the mob and politicians who care more about the next election than the actual law.
As an aside, what is up with these antifa types and beating their women? Dude who field goal kicked the guy in Portland had an extensive history of domestic violence as well.
(08-27-2020, 10:32 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: The only real knock on Trump is his handling of COVID-19, but what could he have done? He was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.
If Trump would have pushed for total shutdown like the Dems act like they wanted, do you think the media would've supported that? No way. They would have used that as an example of his tyranny. If Trump wanted A, they would say B.
So far, media "examples of Trump's tyranny" have not stopped him from doing anything he wanted.
So my question regarding Trump would be, what were the policy/leadership options available to him, which did he choose, and why?
Then I would compare that to how COVID was handled in other countries, like China, Germany, and Italy.
And Brazil.
That should give us a reasonable idea of whether Trump did what could/should have been done, or not.
(08-27-2020, 10:32 PM)Von Cichlid Wrote: 6. Flooding the airwaves with the idea that our country has been the scourge of human history since its inception.- When impressionable youth with no sense of world history hear that incessantly, then no wonder they want to burn the place down to the ground.
Von, I'm not sure it's just impressionable youths who have no sense of world history.
Also, I'm not sure it's impressionable youths who are doing the burning. According to SSF's video, the guys shot by Rittenhouse had pretty long rap sheets.
(08-28-2020, 02:16 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Here's a good breakdown from Donut Operator on the Rittenhouse shootings.
Still a lot to sift through, such as what proceeded the first video, but I don't see how you get a murder 1 charge out of this. Seems like a classic overcharge to placate the mob and politicians who care more about the next election than the actual law.
As an aside, what is up with these antifa types and beating their women? Dude who field goal kicked the guy in Portland had an extensive history of domestic violence as well.
I mentioned this in the other thread where we were talking about it, but I'm firmly in the self-defense camp on this one. To me, were I a juror in this case and tasked with looking at the facts, no matter what happened leading up to the initial shooting the person who fired the first shot in the air from their handgun initiated everything. With that shot being fired, Rittenhouse was absolutely within reason to see his life/limb in danger. He may have shot someone other than the person with the handgun, but I can absolutely say it was reasonable for him to take those shots in that situation.
Specifically on the charges. He has two different first-degree homicide charges. One is intentional and one is reckless. There is zero chance an intentional homicide, which is actually the one for the second victim, Huber, is going to stick. The charge for killing Rosenbaum is reckless homicide. Here is the statute:
Quote:(1) Whoever recklessly causes the death of another human being under circumstances which show utter disregard for human life is guilty of a Class B felony.
Now, let's also look at second-degree reckless:
Quote:(1) Whoever recklessly causes the death of another human being is guilty of a Class D felony.
and also homicide by negligent handling of dangerous weapon, explosives or fire:
Quote:(1) Except as provided in sub. (3), whoever causes the death of another human being by the negligent operation or handling of a dangerous weapon, explosives or fire is guilty of a Class G felony.
I don't see the first-degree charge sticking, even for the Rosenbaum one. Maybe, maybe second-degree reckless, but even so I fully see a strong case for self-defense with the initial shot from the protester before Rittenhouse ever fired his rifle. In fact, the person that fired his handgun into the air should be charged the the negligent handling charge because had they not fired that first shot, I can see everyone making it out of that situation alive.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(08-27-2020, 09:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I didn't accuse you of anything, I made a statement.
"I didn't accuse you I just said it" is a lame excuse even from you.
(08-27-2020, 09:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You didn't say that until you just said it. Bel said it, not you.
(08-27-2020, 11:44 AM)GMDino Wrote:
If those two (and all the ones before them) were handled in a quick and open manner, if we saw legitimate changes, if we saw anything but victim blaming and support for people who "might have" been acting in self-defense when they are white but not when they are a minority. If we saw any of that maybe the protests would slow down, the looters wouldn't have cover for been criminals and we could move forward.
These protests aren't new and they are not just based on the latest incident. We all know that. Each new incident whether there is an over reaction or not is just fuel to a fire that isn't being fought...just left to burn. Sometimes I think the police like it burning to justify what they do to minorities. Maybe Not all of them, but in a country where the leaders love to stoke the flames of fear for votes it sure would help them.
(08-27-2020, 09:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Again, "maybe not all of them"? Seriously sickening.
Quit being so sensitive and speak out for change for once.
You've told us you have served for 20 years with only one, misguided, accusation against you...you should be horrified at the events that go on but instead you fall back on "a few bad apples". Well if you can't even speak out against that minority I don't want to hear any holier than though pontificate on what you think of me or who I am.
No thanks. Sir.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(08-27-2020, 09:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Back on topic, even the New York Times now has to acknowledge the corner the Dems have painted themselves into.
It's almost like people expect their elected officials to do their job and enforce the law rather than pander to a mob of riotous looters.
Yup and they need to handle their own cities. We don’t need to be sending any federal troops. I don’t like the idea of sending federals into states, and as far as I’m concerned the states can handle it or not handle it and live with the results.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
(08-28-2020, 09:04 AM)GMDino Wrote: Quit being so sensitive and speak out for change for once.
Heh, first off, you can't do my job and be sensitive. Secondly, you and your ilk have a radically different idea of what constitutes "change" than I do.
Quote:You've told us you have served for 20 years with only one, misguided, accusation against you...you should be horrified at the events that go on but instead you fall back on "a few bad apples". Well if you can't even speak out against that minority I don't want to hear any holier than though pontificate on what you think of me or who I am.
No thanks. Sir.
I am horrified. I am also aware that such incidents reflect around .0001% of interactions with law enforcement, millions of which occur every day. I have called out every instance in which I believe the officers acted inappropriately. As for you, as I said, your own words condemn your position far better than anything I could ever say. We can leave it at that.
(08-28-2020, 07:50 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I mentioned this in the other thread where we were talking about it, but I'm firmly in the self-defense camp on this one. To me, were I a juror in this case and tasked with looking at the facts, no matter what happened leading up to the initial shooting the person who fired the first shot in the air from their handgun initiated everything. With that shot being fired, Rittenhouse was absolutely within reason to see his life/limb in danger. He may have shot someone other than the person with the handgun, but I can absolutely say it was reasonable for him to take those shots in that situation.
Specifically on the charges. He has two different first-degree homicide charges. One is intentional and one is reckless. There is zero chance an intentional homicide, which is actually the one for the second victim, Huber, is going to stick. The charge for killing Rosenbaum is reckless homicide. Here is the statute:
Now, let's also look at second-degree reckless:
and also homicide by negligent handling of dangerous weapon, explosives or fire:
I don't see the first-degree charge sticking, even for the Rosenbaum one. Maybe, maybe second-degree reckless, but even so I fully see a strong case for self-defense with the initial shot from the protester before Rittenhouse ever fired his rifle. In fact, the person that fired his handgun into the air should be charged the the negligent handling charge because had they not fired that first shot, I can see everyone making it out of that situation alive.
We are pretty much 100% in agreement here. So, as a level headed guy who strives to be objective, let me ask yo two questions.
1. Why would the DA file murder 1 charges when they are clearly inappropriate?
2. Why has a YouTuber provided far better reporting on this subject than any mainstream media outlet. Have you seen any media outlet advancing the self defense position?
(08-28-2020, 09:28 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Yup and they need to handle their own cities. We don’t need to be sending any federal troops. I don’t like the idea of sending federals into states, and as far as I’m concerned the states can handle it or not handle it and live with the results.
I'm in this camp as well. If you send in the Feds you do have the chance of things calming down and the residents seeing you as the guy who cleaned things up. The other side of that coin is that you now gave the local Democratic leadership an out, they can now blame you for their failures, which is exactly what happened in Portland. Unfortunately for Portland the protests continued unabated after the Feds left so that didn't stick at all.
So I'm also of the opinion that you let the local Dem leadership fumble around trying to cater to a riotous, looting mob of arsonists while simultaneously trying to appear like they're actually doing their job and serving their constituents as a whole. The Dems enabled this toxic stew, let them boil in it. I just feel bad for the poor residents of these cities, but you get what you vote for I guess. I realize that puts me in the same boat here in Los Angeles, but thankfully we haven't reached that pitch here.
(08-28-2020, 07:50 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I mentioned this in the other thread where we were talking about it, but I'm firmly in the self-defense camp on this one. To me, were I a juror in this case and tasked with looking at the facts, no matter what happened leading up to the initial shooting the person who fired the first shot in the air from their handgun initiated everything. With that shot being fired, Rittenhouse was absolutely within reason to see his life/limb in danger. He may have shot someone other than the person with the handgun, but I can absolutely say it was reasonable for him to take those shots in that situation.
Were I a juror, I'm not sure I could ignore the series of bad decisions that led a 17-year old from Illinois to take up arms he could not legally wield and "charge towards danger" in another state--finally finding it.
People are going to be replaying the image of this white teen armed with a long gun, wandering unhindered around police during a riot, alongside video of Tamir Rice and John Crawford III etc. for years to come.
Everyone PLEASE watch Kellyanne Conway yesterday tell us point blank that Trump wants to see more violence in America between now and election Day because he thinks it helps him: https://t.co/h3QF5jHTt7
![[Image: jamarr-chase.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/Ycw6u-nmw3AAAAAM/jamarr-chase.gif)
Seriously, you're off the deep end on this subject. ![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media0.giphy.com/media/1kwsTjL8BNqlszNtnCE/giphy.gif)
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
![[Image: mlk-cartoon.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/gk4wT3kz/mlk-cartoon.jpg)
