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(08-30-2020, 05:49 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Honestly it seems more like it's an insurrection by the educated middle/upper-middle class youth (<30 y/o) of society.
Then the lower class of society is just riding the wave as a cover to get free stuff. Or organized criminals using it as a smokescreen for their crimes (multiple instances now of people spreading false information on social media in order to stoke riots before there's reports of organized looting).
I agree. Further, the protestors are not all black and they are not all rioters.
They are definitely not one organization with a point of view and a common agenda.
The primary motivation for the protesters seems to be police violence against Black victims. That's what sets the protests in motion and has turned out thousands upon thousands of demonstrators in many cities, and turned into an international movement which may number millions. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/07/03/us/george-floyd-protests-crowd-size.html
Most most are ready to embrace radical changes in how policing and city government are conceived. But there is not a lot of agreement about what that should look like.
Then there is at least one, possibly more, organizations who travel to protests in hopes of fomenting riots to destroy property. Anti-fa might be one of these, but I'm not finding many among those arrested and charged with property crimes or violence against others.
And there seem to be people who are simply criminal opportunists, a decided minority of the people in the streets, but who see riots as a way to get stuff and who find the mayhem exciting. Likely many are drug users and petty criminals with ODD continued into early adult hood. A dozen people like that can turn a protest into a riot. But suppose there are 100?
Then, the protests draw right wing white supremacists also interested in violence, and who find a movement led by Blacks the perfect target, and post fake social media calls for Antifa violence. This was certainly a factor in Minneapolis, and perhaps now in Kenosha.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/05/30/outsiders-extremists-are-among-those-fomenting-violence-in-twin-cities
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/3-alleged-boogaloo-members-charged-in-las-vegas-protests-2044384/
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/twitter-takes-down-washington-protest-disinformation-bot-behavior-n1221456
Finally, into this complex brew, add a president who conflates protestors with rioters, and who constantly tweets Antifa as the cause. "Biden's America" is happening on his watch, and he is promising "law and order" on day one of his re-election, as he promised it on day one of his first term.
So a lot to sort out here. And I don't think Trump talking points are the right point of departure.
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If you are not from the town/area where the protests are (unless you are the police or national guard trained for such things), if you are driving into the heart of the protests to "defend" anything, if you are shooting paint guns at protesters and macing them, then you are an outside agitator.
And now we have another senseless death.
Quote:Portland clashes: Fatal shooting as rival groups protest
![[Image: p08q1sj8.jpg]](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/720x405/p08q1sj8.jpg)
Media captionOne dead in Portland shooting
A man has been shot dead in Oregon as a large procession of supporters of President Trump clashed with Black Lives Matter protesters in Portland.
Images from the scene showed medics trying to save the man, who appeared to be white.
Police have not given an identity or specified whether the shooting was directly linked to the clashes which broke out in a downtown area.
Portland's streets have been the scene of frequent protests in recent weeks.
The city has become a focus for demonstrations against police brutality and racism since the police killing of African-American George Floyd in Minneapolis on 25 May triggered a wave of national and international outrage.
Federal forces were sent by President Trump to Portland in July in what was described as a move to prevent violence.
What is known about the shooting?
The latest pro-Trump rally was on the third Saturday in a row.
In a statement, Portland police said: "Portland Police officers heard sounds of gunfire from the area of Southeast 3rd Avenue and Southwest Alder Street
They responded and located a victim with a gunshot wound to the chest."
The man did not survive, they said.
Oregon Live reported that "camouflage gear" with "thin blue line patches" was seen next to the body - a common sign of support for the police.
The man was wearing a hat linked to far-right group Patriot Prayer, the New York Times reports.
Another image shows police trying to restrain a man who was apparently with the person who was shot.
![[Image: _114177158_gettyimages-1228264216.jpg]](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/14CB9/production/_114177158_gettyimages-1228264216.jpg) Image copyrightGETTY IMAGESImage captionPolice restraining a man during the Portland clashes
What was the background to the shooting?
The shooting came amid fights between the Trump supporters and BLM protesters in the city centre.
Tension rose after a convoy of some 600 vehicles flying flags and carrying an estimated 1,000 Trump backers gathered at a mall in Clackamas county on the outskirts before entering Portland's downtown.
Video showed some people firing what local media described as pepper spray and pellets at BLM groups who had tried to prevent them entering the city by blocking streets.
Police reported "some instances of violence" between "demonstrators and counter-demonstrators" and said some arrests had been made.
![[Image: _114177160_gettyimages-1228264498.jpg]](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1821/production/_114177160_gettyimages-1228264498.jpg) Image copyrightGETTY IMAGESImage captionThe day began with a caravan of Trump supporters converging on Portland
The violence followed last week's Republican convention which formally anointed Mr Trump as the party's presidential candidate.
Accepting the nomination in a speech on the White House lawn, he sought to characterise Portland as another Democratic-run city prey to "rioting, looting, arson, and violence".
The clashes also come in the wake of the shooting by police of a black man in Wisconsin. Jacob Blake was seriously wounded last week after he was shot in the back seven times by an officer in Kenosha as he was getting into a car.
President Trump has said he will visit Kenosha, which has seen widespread violence.
Why is Portland a flashpoint?
Some protests in Portland over George Floyd's death have been marred by violence, arson, damage to property, arrests and allegations of police brutality.
In July, federal officers drew strong criticism for cracking down on crowds - against the wishes of the local authorities - who had gathered in the city. Federal officers in unmarked vehicles appeared to forcefully seize protesters from the streets and detain them without justification.
The Trump administration described the protesters as a violent mob, but city officials drew a distinction between peaceful demonstrators and smaller groups bent on making trouble.
Portland has also seen violence between far-right groups, such as Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer, and left-wing counter-demonstrators known as antifa, or anti-fascist movement.
Meanwhile Trump is rage tweeting this morning.
Trump is a classless coward but as POTUS he could at a bare minimum ask for calm, try to deescalate. Instead he readily encourages outside agitators and fighting and violence.
Now he is going to WI where he will make a show of how "tough" he is without asking trying to make anything better.
He's a joke.
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Trump is tweeting home the home number of the mayor of Portland (retweeted to be accurate), multiple tweets about antifa, multiple tweets from James Woods including one that says Cuomo should be jailed for allowing people to die alone in the hospital from Covid and one from the Babylon Bee that he probably thinks is real.
That's all in the last 2 hours.
This is the "man" you guys want as president? He couldn't control a two person funeral procession let alone a national disaster.
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Trump supporters spraying mace and throwing things as people cross the road with a "walk" light.
This is Trump's America.
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(08-30-2020, 11:35 AM)GMDino Wrote: Trump supporters spraying mace and throwing things as people cross the road with a "walk" light.
This is Trump's America.
But they're "largely peaceful". 
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(08-30-2020, 11:37 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: But they're "largely peaceful".
The Trump supporters? Not a bit. Came to cause trouble and get a confrontation so Dear Leader Donald could scream "LAW AND ORDER" via tweet.
Again, I don't know why the police would support that, but they do.
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I wish LEOs, other citizens and federal agents would just let these fine folks riot, kill, and burn down shit in peace.
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(08-30-2020, 11:47 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I wish LEOs, other citizens and federal agents would just let these fine folks riot, kill, and burn down shit in peace.
You won't believe this but I had the same thought today.
If people are destroying property and burning down buildings the police should arrest them and charge them. This "policing" by treating everyone on the street as criminals isn't helping. They are picking the low hanging fruit while the real criminals continue.
And if those peacefully protesting are involved at all in the looting and vandalism they need to stop their own.
All these outsiders coming in make it worse.
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(08-30-2020, 11:42 AM)GMDino Wrote: The Trump supporters? Not a bit. Came to cause trouble and get a confrontation so Dear Leader Donald could scream "LAW AND ORDER" via tweet.
Again, I don't know why the police would support that, but they do.
No, they were "largely peaceful".
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Seems the latest largely peaceful protest in Minneapolis was sparked by a man killing himself:
https://news.yahoo.com/marred-trauma-george-floyds-death-083027042.html
Quote:That anger was reignited Wednesday when a murder suspect being pursued by police fatally shot himself outside Nicollet Mall in downtown Minneapolis, sparking false rumors amid mistrust in police that the man had been gunned down by law enforcement.
Police released surveillance video of the man’s death within 90 minutes of the incident, but crowds gathered, leading to protests, looting and confrontations with police as some people began breaking into restaurants and retail stores surrounding the mall.
Gov. Tim Walz declared an emergency in Minneapolis and sent in the National Guard and more than 100 state troopers. Officers used flash-bang grenades to dispel protesters who continued to gather late into the night. More than 130 people were arrested.
Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey ordered two days of curfews, though Thursday night was largely quiet with a few dozen arrests for curfew violations.
Demaag said the recent unrest felt like the initial looting, and said that business owners once again were not getting enough protection.
These folks don't give one shit about "justice" or "truth"
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AS of 6:45pm on Sunday 8/30/20 VP Pence has not called for end of any violence after the events of the past few days...nor has the POTUS.
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(08-30-2020, 07:46 PM)GMDino Wrote: AS of 6:45pm on Sunday 8/30/20 VP Pence has not called for end of any violence after the events of the past few days...nor has the POTUS.
Wait, the Dems are now condemning the violence? After three months, what changed to make them finally take a stand against it?
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(08-30-2020, 08:13 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Wait, the Dems are now condemning the violence? After three months, what changed to make them finally take a stand against it?
Dude, don't be like that: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/13/fact-check-democrats-have-condemned-violence-linked-protests/3317862001/
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(08-30-2020, 08:32 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Dude, don't be like that: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/08/13/fact-check-democrats-have-condemned-violence-linked-protests/3317862001/
You know what, fair enough.
I'll admit that they have condemned it, but their local representatives have done nothing to stop it.
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You won't read or hear about this on mainstream media..
https://thewashingtonsentinel.com/coroner-saying-george-floyd-died-of-drug-overdose-not-police-brutality/
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It is beginning to look like George Floyd, the man who’s death sparked months of anti-American riots, didn’t die of police brutality after all.
Over two months ago, Minneapolis man George Floyd died after being subdued by the city’s police. Video showing Floyd pinned to the ground by a police officer using his knee on the back of the man’s neck went viral and sparked three months of destruction, riots, looting, and up to 30 murders.
Leftist activists have been saying that the Minneapolis police “murdered” Floyd with the knee-on-the-neck takedown.
But previously unseen documents released by the Hennepin County Attorney’s Office on Tuesday now show that the medical examiner felt that Floyd actually died because he had too many illegal drugs in his system, not because police officers pinned him to the ground with a knee to his neck.
Latest: Joe Scarborough Calls Out Portland Mayor And Oregon Governor, Urges Them To Call In National Guard
That’s right, folks, Floyd died of a drug overdose, not by police abuse.
The records consist of a summary of a conversation between Amy Sweasy, a Hennepin County Attorney, and Hennepin chief medical examiner, Dr. Andrew Baker who said that he would conclude that Floyd died of a drug overdose if there were no other contributing factors.
Dr. Baker said he made his determination based on drug tests on Floyd’s blood samples taken by the local hospital.
Floyd’s blood tested positive for 4ANPP, methamphetamine, fentanyl, and norfentayl. Baker added that the levels of drugs in Floyd’s system would be a “fatal level under normal circumstances.”
Once again, we see that the police were not at fault and the Black Lives Matter terrorists used his death as an excuse for their anti-American mayhem all before finding out the first facts about what really happened.
Turns out that all the rioting has been a crock of shit, stirred up before anyone waited for the actual facts to surface..
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(08-30-2020, 08:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You won't read or hear about this on mainstream media..
https://thewashingtonsentinel.com/coroner-saying-george-floyd-died-of-drug-overdose-not-police-brutality/
Turns out that all the rioting has been a crock of shit, stirred up before anyone waited for the actual facts to surface..
Being completely honest, the officer's actions in that case were so beyond the pale that at this point it doesn't really matter if that's what killed Floyd or not. Everyone here knows I'm going to err on the side of giving law enforcement the benefit of the doubt, but that officer acted in such an egregious manner that he was never going to get that benefit. His actions were inexcusable. The actual cause of Floyd's death really only matters for the officer's criminal trial now, and that of the other officers. The damage that officer did is irrevocably done, in every way possible.
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(08-30-2020, 08:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Being completely honest, the officer's actions in that case were so beyond the pale that at this point it doesn't really matter if that's what killed Floyd or not. Everyone here knows I'm going to err on the side of giving law enforcement the benefit of the doubt, but that officer acted in such an egregious manner that he was never going to get that benefit. His actions were inexcusable. The actual cause of Floyd's death really only matters for the officer's criminal trial now, and that of the other officers. The damage that officer did is irrevocably done, in every way possible.
Yeah, pretty much everyone in the LE community I follow on social media would say the same. What was it, 8:40? Every single one of them said that was inexcusable, and that isn't changed by this information.
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(08-30-2020, 08:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You won't read or hear about this on mainstream media..
https://thewashingtonsentinel.com/coroner-saying-george-floyd-died-of-drug-overdose-not-police-brutality/
Turns out that all the rioting has been a crock of shit, stirred up before anyone waited for the actual facts to surface..
That doesn't really change anything, for two reasons:
1. The cop still acted terribly.
2. The rioting has morphed well beyond police brutality anyway. That was true way back when statues of Columbus and founding fathers were being toppled.
That being said, the Floyd incident was the catalyst. The real statement about human nature to me is that now he has murals all over America and every one is saying his name, but before that no one cared enough about him to give him $20.00.
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(08-30-2020, 08:13 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Wait, the Dems are now condemning the violence? After three months, what changed to make them finally take a stand against it?
Polls.
I heard Biden is now getting out of his basement to beat Trump to WI. Folks can post the arbitrary link here and there of Dems "condemning" the violence, but just use this forum as a microcosm of who and have and have not condemned the violence and you'll get your answer.
Put now they realize Americans are tired of the shit and they'll try to claim how much "against it" they've been.
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