More tariffs paid by US consumers

[Dill]

(06-13-2019, 08:14 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Did the expansion of the economy lead to more women working and getting an education in Bhutan or did more women working and getting an education in Bhutan lead to the expansion of the economy? Which can we credit with causing a record number of women to now hold office in Bhutan?

It's a symbiotic relationship. Neither can be looked at in a vacuum, unaffected by the other. 

Regardless of whether the egg or the chicken came first, I imagine a lot of women in Bhutan see the increased number of economic, political, and educational opportunities as being means to improve their standing and treatment in society. 

Looks like "society" expanded the economy.

I suspect if the economy shrank it would shrink society.

Because they are totally separate.

[fredtoast]

(06-13-2019, 05:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: One  Some can absolutely separate the 2. There's no doubt that the Economy is a component of a society but the terms are not the same and easily separated. Hell, you guys are doing it in your very argument. 

Is wealth distribution an economic issue that would be addressed with an economic policy?

Would steps taken to "save the middle class" be an economic policy?

Is the decision between a "flat tax" and a "progressive tax" and economic issue?

Is the unemployment rate an "economic indicator"?  How about "new housing starts" or "inflation"?

[GMDino]

Isn't socialism "replacement" money great!

Farmers are starting to do great again, after 15 years of a downward spiral. The 16 Billion Dollar China “replacement” money didn’t exactly hurt!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 23, 2019

 

[GMDino]

http://news.trust.org/item/20190730175400-li5as

Quote:WASHINGTON, July 30 (Reuters) - More than half of the Trump administration's $8.4 billion in trade aid payments to U.S. farmers through April was received by the top 10% of recipients, the country's biggest and most successful farmers, a study by an advocacy group showed on Tuesday.



Highlighting an uneven distribution of the bailout, which was designed to help offset effects of the U.S.-China trade war, the Environmental Working Group said the top 1% of aid recipients received an average of more than $180,000 while the bottom 80% were paid less than $5,000 in aid.


The EWG, a Washington-based non-profit, said it obtained data from the U.S. Department of Agriculture through Freedom of Information Act requests for its research, the results of which could not be independently verified by Reuters.


The Trump administration last year began rolling out federal aid for farmers to compensate for lower farm good prices and lost sales after Washington's trade dispute with China wiped out a key export market for U.S. agricultural goods.


The first round of aid, announced in 2018, was up to $12 billion. The second round, unveiled last week, involves up to $16 billion dollars and $14.5 billion of that is direct payments.


U.S. farmers, a key constituency of President Donald Trump, have been among the hardest hit in the year-long trade war between the world's two largest economies. Shipments of soybeans, the most valuable U.S. farm export, to top buyer China sank to a 16-year low in 2018.


"Farm bailout payments designed to offset the impacts of President Trump's trade war have overwhelmingly flowed to the largest and most successful farmers," EWG said in a statement.


It said the first round of payments had been linked to crop production, favoring the biggest producers of certain crops. The second round, rolled out last week, would further favor big farms because it was designed to pay per acre, EWG said.


"The bigger the farm, the bigger the government check," it said. A USDA spokeswoman said aid payments were made based on a producer's individual production. "The more acres they farm and bushels per acre they produce - the more assistance they receive," she said in emailed comments.


The department has made changes to its new farm aid and said it would pay farmers according to geographic location rather than by crop. A Reuters analysis of the payment rates posted online showed farmers in the cotton-growing Mississippi Delta states stand to be the greatest beneficiaries of the program.


The new round also increased the maximum amount of aid per individual or legal entity to $500,000 from $125,000 in the package last year.


U.S.-China trade talks broke down in May and were only revived in a meeting between Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping last month.


Negotiations to end the trade war restarted this week, but expectations for the two-day meeting are low. (Reporting by Humeyra Pamuk Editing by Tom Brown)

[GMDino]

JUST IN: America’s trade deficit with China hits a five-month high, a day after Trump threatened to ratchet up tariffs on a slew of additional imports from the Asian nation https://t.co/HHiRe3tejd pic.twitter.com/fGJ5LQ3jnr

— Bloomberg (@business) August 2, 2019

 

[GMDino]

Make Socialism Great again?

As they have learned in the last two years, our great American Farmers know that China will not be able to hurt them in that their President has stood with them and done what no other president would do - And I’ll do it again next year if necessary!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 6, 2019

 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-06-2019, 10:11 AM)GMDino Wrote: Make Socialism Great again?

As they have learned in the last two years, our great American Farmers know that China will not be able to hurt them in that their President has stood with them and done what no other president would do - And I’ll do it again next year if necessary!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 6, 2019

 

You could continue to let the PRC take total advantage of us as we have for decades or you could actually do something about it.  There's a lot to criticize Trump for, his trying to bring China's piratical economic policy to heel is sure as hell not one of them.

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-06-2019, 10:32 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You could continue to let the PRC take total advantage of us as we have for decades or you could actually do something about it.  There's a lot to criticize Trump for, his trying to bring China's piratical economic policy to heel is sure as hell not one of them.

Problem is he is a liar and shitty negotiator. Not to mention HIS actions pulling us out of multiple agreements across various topics our country has made in the recent past makes it look like our word is only as good as that of a lying conman.

Oh and we have people like jared and ivanka at the table as well. 

Its hard enough to get something fair worked out with a massive communist country. Its down right impossible with this shit show.

[GMDino]

(08-06-2019, 10:32 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You could continue to let the PRC take total advantage of us as we have for decades or you could actually do something about it.  There's a lot to criticize Trump for, his trying to bring China's piratical economic policy to heel is sure as hell not one of them.

And I'm sure this is the only way: By driving up our trade deficit, hurting farmers and then bailing them out?

'K

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-06-2019, 10:43 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Problem is he is a liar and shitty negotiator. Not to mention HIS actions pulling us out of multiple agreements across various topics our country has made in the recent past makes it look like our word is only as good as that of a lying conman.

Oh and we have people like jared and ivanka at the table as well. 

Its hard enough to get something fair worked out with a massive communist country. Its down right impossible with this shit show.

I don't think Jared and Bianca are involved in the trade negotiations with China.  Don't use lame talking points, it doesn't help you make a cogent argument.

(08-06-2019, 10:44 AM)GMDino Wrote: And I'm sure this is the only way: By driving up our trade deficit, hurting farmers and then bailing them out?

'K

You can disagree with the methodology, I give him a lot of credit for being the POTUS who's actually finally doing something about it.  Time will tell how well it works out.

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-06-2019, 10:48 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't think Jared and Bianca are involved in the trade negotiations with China.  Don't use lame talking points, it doesn't help you make a cogent argument.


You can disagree with the methodology, I give him a lot of credit for being the POTUS who's actually finally doing something about it.  Time will tell how well it works out.

Yea.. Sorry bud. I wish it were a lame talking point. Unfortunately this is our reality.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiEnufpse7jAhUCjq0KHcDvAWIQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsg.news.yahoo.com%2Fivanka-trump-jared-kushner-seat-141751190.html&psig=AOvVaw2fqhlmP80TaTc-5AcHTI9j&ust=1565185857902696

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2019, 10:48 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You can disagree with the methodology, I give him a lot of credit for being the POTUS who's actually finally doing something about it.  Time will tell how well it works out.

I think my biggest problem is that we have a POTUS who using socialism as a fear mongering device against Democrats while engaging in a policy that is more socialistic than many we are hearing about from the left.

The intention is admirable, the execution is shitty, and the politics are worse.

[GMDino]

(08-06-2019, 10:48 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't think Jared and Bianca are involved in the trade negotiations with China.  Don't use lame talking points, it doesn't help you make a cogent argument.


You can disagree with the methodology, I give him a lot of credit for being the POTUS who's actually finally doing something about it.  Time will tell how well it works out.

"doing something about it" doesn't matter if he'd doing the opposite of good for the country while doing it in my humble opinion.

[GMDino]

(08-06-2019, 11:03 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think my biggest problem is that we have a POTUS who using socialism as a fear mongering device against Democrats while engaging in a policy that is more socialistic than many we are hearing about from the left.

The intention is admirable, the execution is shitty, and the politics are worse.

As usual your words are better than mine!  LOL!

[*Nately120*]

(08-06-2019, 11:03 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I think my biggest problem is that we have a POTUS who using socialism as a fear mongering device against Democrats while engaging in a policy that is more socialistic than many we are hearing about from the left.

The intention is admirable, the execution is shitty, and the politics are worse.

Indeed.  This is certainly one of those "perception over reality" sort of bs-maneuvers that Trump fans were supposed so sick of career politicians pulling on us. I will say that this shows the political advantage of getting people to look at actions as being 100% relegated to one side or the other. Democrats do socialist stuff and Republicans don't, so as long as people believe that sort of paradigm politicians can do as they please and still keep their support.

Sort of like how Obama managed to keep up the drone strikes, if not outright increase them while being applauded as a peacenik by his fans and derided as a wimpy flower-child by his detractors. Politicians, you play us like a fiddle!

[GMDino]

Normally this would be someone admitting they were wrong.  I doubt DJT would do that.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/13/trump-says-he-delayed-tariffs-because-of-concerns-over-christmas-shopping-season.html

Quote:Trump says he delayed tariffs because of concerns over Christmas shopping season


KEY POINTS

• President Trump says he is delaying some tariffs on Chinese imports ahead of the Christmas season.
• “We’re doing this for the Christmas season,” Trump says, “just in case some of the tariffs would have an impact on U.S. customers.”
• The Trump administration announced hours earlier that it would delay until Dec. 15 some of the tariffs that were originally scheduled to come into effect Sept. 1.
  

[color=rgba(7, 29, 57, 0)]WATCH NOW

VIDEO[color=rgba(255, 255, 255, 0.8)]01:07[/color]
Trump: We’re delaying tariffs to benefit Christmas shopping season

President Donald Trump on Tuesday said he is delaying some tariffs on Chinese imports ahead of the Christmas season to stem their potential impact on holiday shopping.

[/color]
The Trump administration announced hours earlier that it would delay until Dec. 15 some of the tariffs that were originally scheduled to come into effect Sept. 1.

“We’re doing this for the Christmas season,” Trump told reporters on an airport tarmac around noon Tuesday. “Just in case some of the tariffs would have an impact on U.S. customers.”


“So far they’ve had virtually none,” the president added. “But just in case they might have an impact on people, what we’ve done is we’ve delayed it, so that they won’t be relevant to the Christmas shopping season.”


The acknowledgement that tariffs could harm holiday sales marks a shift for Trump, a self-described “tariff man” who has long claimed that the taxes on imports help the U.S. while applying pressure on China.


The U.S. trade representative said the delay would apply to a wide variety of goods, including certain electronics such as cellphones, laptops and video games.


A slew of Christmas-related products also appeared on the delay list. They include decorations for “Christmas festivities, nativity scenes and figures thereof,” as well as Christmas tree lights and ornaments.

No other items for specific holidays appear to be included in the delay list.


Trump had announced in early August that he would slap 10% tariffs on the remaining $300 billion worth of Chinese goods that had so far avoided import duties. The White House has already imposed tariffs on $250 billion worth of imports from China.

Quote:
[/url]Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump

 · Aug 1, 2019


Replying to @realDonaldTrump
...buy agricultural product from the U.S. in large quantities, but did not do so. Additionally, my friend President Xi said that he would stop the sale of Fentanyl to the United States – this never happened, and many Americans continue to die! Trade talks are continuing, and...

Quote:
Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump


...during the talks the U.S. will start, on September 1st, putting a small additional Tariff of 10% on the remaining 300 Billion Dollars of goods and products coming from China into our Country. This does not include the 250 Billion Dollars already Tariffed at 25%...

[url=https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1156979446877962243]70.6K
1:26 PM - Aug 1, 2019
Twitter Ads info and privacy

China, which had already put retaliatory tariffs on $110 billion worth of U.S. imports, responded to the most recent threat by canceling all purchases of U.S. agriculture products.



The White House’s move to back off on the hard and fast date for the new tariffs came as a sigh of relief for markets, which have been increasingly on edge amid the intensifying trade war between Beijing and Washington. Major indexes, which had been trading in the red before the market open, shot up on the news.


Rising shares of tech companies, tech distributors and other retailers carried the market higher. Apple shares jumped nearly 5% higher on the news and Best Buy soared more than 8%. Chip stocks also moved out of correction territory with the semiconductor ETF down 8% from its July high.


Trump has long given full-throated support to tariffs. He regularly claims that China, not the U.S., bears the burden of the duties, and says that the U.S. is taking in “billions” from China.
Most economists are quick to point out that U.S. importers are the ones who directly pay the taxes, though tariffs can hurt China by making its goods more expensive for Americans to buy.

Trump’s comments Tuesday came just before traveling from his New Jersey golf resort to the Shell Pennsylvania Petrochemicals Complex, where he will deliver remarks about U.S. energy and manufacturing.

So probably it's just his "friends" telling him he was costing them sales more than a true worry about you (universal) and me paying more.

And no, Trump does not get "credit for doing the right thing" because, again, he doesn't think it IS the right thing and he's the one who created the problem in the first place with his misguided attempts.

[GMDino]

Peter Navarro: "For Christmas, the president basically will not be putting tariffs on some key products, so we have an inflation-free Christmas." #GeeThanks pic.twitter.com/yEW1tARmFe

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) August 14, 2019

 

[GMDino]

In a week that saw a one day 800 point drop in the market Trump told voters in NH they have "no choice" but to vote for him of their 401K's will down the tubes.

And that's not from the Onion.

[GMDino]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-18/u-s-steel-has-cut-1-800-jobs-in-europe-pares-earnings-forecast

Quote:The trade war that President Donald Trump started with China to protect domestic companies is starting to bite the industry he championed in his “America First” campaign.


Since the Trump administration announced tariffs last year, domestic steelmakers’ shares have slumped, partly on concern that trade tensions with China threatened global economic growth and demand for the commodity. Now, there’s evidence that those fears are being borne out, with U.S. Steel Corp., Nucor Corp. and Steel Dynamics Inc. all warning this week on third-quarter profit outlooks.


The producers are reeling from a manufacturing slump that has hurt its customers’ ability to take on higher prices of the metal. A key U.S. factory gauge unexpectedly contracted in August for the first time since 2016, adding to evidence of global factory woes, and on Thursday the OECD lowered its global growth forecast as protectionist policies take an increasing toll on confidence and investment.


“All of these trade battles that are going on are creating uncertainty for everyone at every level, all the way from the manufacturer down to the end consumer,” Randy Frederick, a vice president of trading and derivatives who helps oversee $3.7 trillion in assets at Charles Schwab in Austin, Texas, said in a telephone interview. “And uncertainty always breeds complacency, which ultimately is going to stifle demand for things like steel.”

U.S. Steel shares headed for the biggest loss in more than a year on Thursday after the company said it expects to report a wider loss than analysts were expecting. The Pittsburgh-based producer cited weakening markets for flat-rolled steel and tubular products for the energy industry. That warning came two days after Nucor, the largest U.S. producer, said third-quarter profit waned amid “some softening in automotive, agricultural products and power transmission markets.”

Adding to the travails is that steelmakers boosted production plans in the wake of the tariffs, which put self-inflicted pressure on prices. Ebbing demand from industrial customers and prospects for increased output are upending the optimistic outlook conveyed by the top executives of steel companies as recently as mid-year. In July, John Ferriola, the chief executive officer of Charlotte, North Caroline-based Nucor, called a bottom in steel prices, citing strong demand in key end-use markets.


The Institute for Supply Management’s purchasing managers index fell to 49.1 in August, weaker than all forecasts in a Bloomberg survey of economists, according to a report earlier this month. Figures below 50 indicate the manufacturing economy is generally shrinking. Factory weakness has sparked worries over the possibility of a broader U.S. recession.


“We know that there are concerns about a recession in the U.S.,” said Frederick of Charles Schwab. “A lot of it has to do with the trade concerns in China and a general slowdown overall in manufacturing.”

The impact of the trade war on the U.S. economy hasn’t escaped the notice of Federal Reserve policy makers.


“Business investment and exports have weakened amid falling manufacturing output,” Fed Chairman Jerome Powell said Wednesday. “The main reasons appear to be slower growth abroad and trade policy developments, two sources of uncertainty that we’ve been monitoring all year.”


U.S. Steel fell 11% at 11:59 a.m. in New York on Thursday, heading for the biggest intraday drop since April 2018. The stock has declined by about 40% this year. The S&P Supercomposite Steel Index of 13 producers has dropped 28% since the tariffs were announced in early March of last year.



“The macroeconomic outlook has not been friendly to the steelmakers this year,” Tyler Kenyon, an analyst at Cowen in New York, said in a telephone interview. “Some of that could be associated with trade tensions and uncertainty globally, and softness in the global industrial economy. It’s certainly changed the landscape for the steelmakers and their customers.”

[GMDino]

In news that Trump supporters/defenders might care about:

https://www.nola.com/news/business/article_eb4bdb54-e3bf-11e9-a105-1fbf4a4b79a4.html

Quote:Bayou Steel shuts suddenly with loss of 376 jobs in LaPlace; governor blames tariffs




Bayou Steel Group is shutting down its LaPlace steel mill, putting nearly 400 workers out of work as the ripple effects of the growing trade war between the U.S. and China put pressure on the domestic steel industry.



A manager for the 40-year-old plant, which is one of the largest employers in St. John the Baptist Parish, said in a letter to Parish President Natalie Robottom and state workforce officials on Monday that "unforeseen business circumstances" and a lack of financing would force the plant's owners to permanently close the plant by the end of November.


The move came as a shock to local officials, who said the closure came without warning. Parish spokeswoman Baileigh Rebowe said workers had no idea it was coming either.


"Many of them were not prepared," Rebowe said. "They’re devastated and didn’t know this going into work this morning."


The Louisiana Workforce Commission said it had received no warning of the closure and layoffs until Monday. 
The commission said it will deploy a mobile unit to the American Job Center Office on West Airline Highway in LaPlace on Tuesday to offer advice on job openings, retraining and other assistance that may be available to the plant's 376 workers.


Without warning, Bayou Steel -- 'one of the biggest employers we have' -- closing in LaPlace


The LaPlace plant, which first opened in 1979, specializes in turning scrap materials into products like rebar that can then be sold to builders and other customers. In recent months, sharp swings in the market for steel as well as scrap metal and other raw materials, coupled with uncertainty around trade with China, the world's largest steel market, has pressured many steelmakers.


The plant's private equity owners, Connecticut-based Black Diamond Capital Management, did not respond to requests for comment, nor did the plant's management.

Gov. John Bel Edwards blamed the closure on the Trump Administration's trade war with China, which began more than a year ago with tariffs on imported steel.


"While Bayou Steel has not given any specific reason for the closure, we know that this company, which uses recycled scrap metal that is largely imported, is particularly vulnerable to tariffs," Edwards said in a statement, adding that Louisiana is among the states most dependent on metals that have been hit by rising costs caused by tariffs.
[img=73x0]http:://thebengalsboard.com/data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAAQAAAADCAQAAAAe/WZNAAAAEElEQVR42mM8U88ABowYDABAxQPltt5zqAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==[/img]

If Trump imposes steel tariffs or quotas, Louisiana would see both winners and losers


Peter Ricchiuti, a business professor at Tulane University's Freeman School of Business, said Bayou Steel should have been better placed than most to survive.


"I am really surprised because it was a 'mini mill' and they are so much more efficient than other mills," Ricchiuti said, explaining that they take in old cars, refrigerators and the like, melt them down and turn the metal into "long products." Also, he said, because the plant was on the Mississippi River, it was able to receive scrap metal from cheap sources, like the Caribbean, in the most cost-effective way.

"I think the tariffs just killed them," he said. "And if they threw in the towel, there have to be a lot of traditional steel mills out there where they're thinking the same thing in the executive boardrooms."


The plant has been through several owners since it was first built. The latest change of hands came only about four years ago when Luxembourg-based Arcelor Mittal, the world's largest steelmaker, sold the plant to Black Diamond.
[img=630x0]http:://thebengalsboard.com/data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAAQAAAADCAQAAAAe/WZNAAAAEElEQVR42mM8U88ABowYDABAxQPltt5zqAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==[/img]
At that time, the company employed 630 workers, according to news reports at the time, but it has since been trimming its workforce under chief executive Rob Simon.


In an interview two years ago, Simon said the chopping and changing had left the plant struggling to define its identity. But he added that its location on the Mississippi River gave it a strong advantage in cheaply barging product to depots in Chicago, Pittsburgh and Catoosa, Oklahoma, to be distributed across North America.

Workers at the sprawling facility kept mostly to themselves as they walked to their cars Monday afternoon. Reporters and television news cameras were kept far back from the chain-link fences that surround most of the site.

In the letter to Robottom and state officials, the plants human resources manager, Kristen Barney, said the company expected some of the layoffs would begin Sept. 30 and "will continue until the plant is permanently closed."


She noted that the plant employed some union workers.


The U.S. is the world's fourth-largest steel producer, making around 87 million tons of steel in 2018, according to data from the World Steel Association. China is by far the world's largest steelmaker, producing 928 million tons, or roughly half the world's annual production.


The Trump Administration has accused China of dumping products like steel on world markets at below cost, breaking World Trade Organization rules.


Though the steel tariffs were initially welcomed by many in the U.S. steel sector, the rising cost of steel has hit big users like automakers. That has, in turn, blown back on the steel industry.

In June, U.S. Steel idled a blast furnace at its Great Lakes Works plant after General Motors closed assembly lines at three of its plants.