Pope Francis by Nation Geographic

[Belsnickel]

(08-17-2015, 11:44 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: He's popular with the Democrats because he's a Socialist.  I don't see him involved in religion as much as politics.

Well, his position is not purely religious. It is political as well.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(08-17-2015, 12:43 PM)xxlt Wrote: https://nationalsurvivoradvocatescoalition.wordpress.com/2015/08/05/whistle-tom-doyles-steadfast-witness-by-robert-kaiser/

Well, I am not Catholic but was raised in that church and still have friends, including priests, in that church. Long story short the sexual misconduct issue mentioned in the OP is a much larger issue than most realize. You can learn more about it at the link above or at this link:

http://http://www.snapnetwork.org/

And this pope is business as usual on that issue. It is a big deal because 1/4 girls and 1/6 boys between infancy and 18 are force/coerced by adults into sexual acts in which they have no desire to participate. That's 20% of our children being raped or assaulted and little done to the perpetrators.

Are all perpetrators priests or ministers? No, but the numbers who are priests or ministers are staggering. Read more about them here:

http://http://www.bishop-accountability.org/

And the institutional Catholic Church's active facilitation and enabling of pedophiles crimes is even more staggering. If you click on the first link above (or go to Amazon) you can get the book Whistle. It is the best overview of the sexual abuse problem in the church I have seen. Furthermore it highlights over 30 years of work by Tom Doyle, a man whose name more Catholics and non should know. Tom really is an heroic figure. Whistle is a good read and tells an important story thoroughly and accurately. I strongly recommend the book to all who are interested in the welfare of children and/or religion.

Yea I've always known that the catholic leadership has always had a problem with sexual misconduct.  Personally I don't think celibacy is the best option.  From my understanding this practice was put in place to prevent priest from passing on material wealth because of their status in leadership in the church.  I don't think I stated that exactly correct, but I think it was something like that.

[GMDino]

(08-17-2015, 01:03 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Yea I've always known that the catholic leadership has always had a problem with sexual misconduct.  Personally I don't think celibacy is the best option.  From my understanding this practice was put in place to prevent priest from passing on material wealth because of their status in leadership in the church.  I don't think I stated that exactly correct, but I think it was something like that.

Its one of the theories.

Of course there are many examples of priests with mistresses and children even up until today.

Its outdated in my book, but the Church is quick to change these things.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(08-17-2015, 01:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: Its one of the theories.

Of course there are many examples of priests with mistresses and children even up until today.

Its outdated in my book, but the Church is quick to change these things.

Yea I've heard that as well.   Just so I can be clear that I'm not just singling out Catholics,  all religions IMO repress sexuality.  Which is sad really, it can be a lot of fun when you're with the right person.

[GMDino]

(08-17-2015, 01:18 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Yea I've heard that as well.   Just so I can be clear that I'm not just singling out Catholics,  all religions IMO repress sexuality.  Which is sad really, it can be a lot of fun when you're with the right person.

No offense taken.  I was raised Catholic and am still one.  However I'm not blind to the abuses.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(08-17-2015, 01:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: No offense taken.  I was raised Catholic and am still one.  However I'm not blind to the abuses.

I was raised in a Baptist house hold, though I no longer subscribe to the religion I was raised in.  My best friend was raised Catholic, but he also no longer subscribes to that religion.  He went to a Catholic school until he convinced his parents to let him go to public school with me and our other friends.  Though I'm not a believer, I find religion fascinating.

[xxlt]

(08-17-2015, 01:46 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I was raised in a Baptist house hold, though I no longer subscribe to the religion I was raised in.  My best friend was raised Catholic, but he also no longer subscribes to that religion.  He went to a Catholic school until he convinced his parents to let him go to public school with me and our other friends.  Though I'm not a believer, I find religion fascinating.

Religion is fascinating and it plays a big role in our world. Just look at the Arian Foster article someone posted the other day. His COLLEGE (theoretically at least somewhat educated) teammates hear he is atheist and ask if that means he worships the devil! So religion and the often concomitant ignorance of other beliefs is a significant phenomenon and I think you are wise to take an interest it it even if you don't have a personal religious system you subscribe to.

But going back to the pope and the abuse thing, celibacy is a problematic issue for the church but lets be clear that is not what drives priests to rape children and vulnerable adults and occasionally take mistresses (or male lovers). All those things could and would happen in the absence of celibacy. The problem is how the church deals with those things when they do happen: they deny it, they threaten the victims, and they shield the abuser. I will say it again, if you are interested in religion and/or child welfare pick up Whistle.

Also, you might want to read a book with a much more academic tone to it, coauthored by Tom Doyle and two others (Pat Wall and Richard Sipe). They were asked to write a position paper on dealing with sexual abuse by priests and religious and it evolved into this book:
http://http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Priests-Secret-Codes-Catholic/dp/1566252652

It traces the issue not back to Boston in the early 2000's or even to Louisiana in the early 1980's but to the earliest days of the Catholic Church.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(08-17-2015, 02:21 PM)xxlt Wrote: Religion is fascinating and it plays a big role in our world. Just look at the Arian Foster article someone posted the other day. His COLLEGE (theoretically at least somewhat educated) teammates hear he is atheist and ask if that means he worships the devil! So religion and the often concomitant ignorance of other beliefs is a significant phenomenon and I think you are wise to take an interest it it even if you don't have a personal religious system you subscribe to.

But going back to the pope and the abuse thing, celibacy is a problematic issue for the church but lets be clear that is not what drives priests to rape children and vulnerable adults and occasionally take mistresses (or male lovers). All those things could and would happen in the absence of celibacy. The problem is how the church deals with those things when they do happen: they deny it, they threaten the victims, and they shield the abuser. I will say it again, if you are interested in religion and/or child welfare pick up Whistle.

Also, you might want to read a book with a much more academic tone to it, coauthored by Tom Doyle and two others (Pat Wall and Richard Sipe). They were asked to write a position paper on dealing with sexual abuse by priests and religious and it evolved into this book:
http://http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Priests-Secret-Codes-Catholic/dp/1566252652

It traces the issue not back to Boston in the early 2000's or even to Louisiana in the early 1980's but to the earliest days of the Catholic Church.

I absolutely will check out the books you've recommended. I actually prefer books on the subject with a more academic tone.

I have to go to work at the moment, but would enjoy discussing it further when I have more time.

[xxlt]

(08-17-2015, 03:24 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I absolutely will check out the books you've recommended. I actually prefer books on the subject with a more academic tone.

I have to go to work at the moment, but would enjoy discussing it further when I have more time.

They are both worth your time. As you dig into them and whatever other sources you explore I will look forward to your feedback and chatting about it too.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(08-17-2015, 02:21 PM)xxlt Wrote: But going back to the pope and the abuse thing, celibacy is a problematic issue for the church but lets be clear that is not what drives priests to rape children and vulnerable adults and occasionally take mistresses (or male lovers). All those things could and would happen in the absence of celibacy. The problem is how the church deals with those things when they do happen: they deny it, they threaten the victims, and they shield the abuser. I will say it again, if you are interested in religion and/or child welfare pick up Whistle.

Sorry I wasn't trying to brush you off when responding to your post the other day.  I was in a rush to get to work.  But I absolutely agree that the Catholic church has a problem in how they handle sexual misconduct in their organization.  It's one area that I really hope change is on the horizon for them.

Edit: I tried your link, and didn't have any luck, not sure what the problem is. I'm going to call Barnes & Noble and check 1/2 Price Books.

[*michaelsean*]

I like some of what he does, but I think liberals hear what they want to hear a lot with him. They cheered the whole global warming thing, but skipped over his abortion addendum. He will talk about compassion to homosexuals (which the Church has already put in writing) but nothing is changing about the Church's stance on homosexual acts.

[BoomerFan]

(08-18-2015, 01:34 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I like some of what he does, but I think liberals hear what they want to hear a lot with him.  They cheered the whole global warming thing, but skipped over his abortion addendum.  He will talk about compassion to homosexuals (which the Church has already put in writing) but nothing is changing about the Church's stance on homosexual acts.

I like Pope Francis. Maybe it isn't just liberals but moderates as well?

[Belsnickel]

(08-18-2015, 01:34 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I like some of what he does, but I think liberals hear what they want to hear a lot with him. They cheered the whole global warming thing, but skipped over his abortion addendum. He will talk about compassion to homosexuals (which the Church has already put in writing) but nothing is changing about the Church's stance on homosexual acts.

There is a lot that people gloss over with him. My big reason for liking him is that he seems to live as a Christian, or at least strive to do so. By that I mean he tries to live life by the example Christ set, especially as a leader of the Church.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-18-2015, 07:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: There is a lot that people gloss over with him. My big reason for liking him is that he seems to live as a Christian, or at least strive to do so. By that I mean he tries to live life by the example Christ set, especially as a leader of the Church.

Oh no doubt. His overall message is compassion. I don't really like what he said about immigration, but I believe he said it out of compassion.

[SteelCitySouth]

(08-19-2015, 12:08 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Oh no doubt.  His overall message is compassion.  I don't really like what he said about immigration, but I believe he said it out of compassion.

Often, nationalistic desires conflict directly with Christian values.

[*michaelsean*]

(08-19-2015, 12:57 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Often, nationalistic desires conflict directly with Christian values.

Only if unlimited and unchecked immigration is the only way to help people. Which it's not.

[*michaelsean*]

Actually I had the story wrong on immigration so Frank and I are cool there.