Mueller: Trump-Russian collusion doesn’t seem to exist

[StLucieBengal]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27249/new-mueller-indictment-against-russians-undercuts-ben-shapiro

Well now that we have this settled we can move to the business at hand.

Quote:The New Mueller Indictment Against Russians UNDERCUTS Trump-Russia Collusion Claims

Ben ShapiroFebruary 16, 2018

Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post via Getty Images; Win McNamee/Getty Images
On Friday, the Mueller investigation’s grand jury indicted 13 Russians associated with election meddling. But that wasn’t the real headline. The real headline is that supposed Trump-Russia collusion doesn’t seem to exist. And that’s pretty clear from the indictment papers.

The indictment targets 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities the government says were utilizing “information warfare” during the election cycle. According to the indictment, these people “support[ed] the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump” and worked on “disparaging Hillary Clinton.” But after Trump’s election, according to the same indictment, “Defendants and their co-conspirators used false US personas to organize and coordinate other false US personas to organize and coordinate US political rallies protesting the results of the 2016 presidential election.” One of those rallies included “Trump is NOT my President,” held on November 12, 2016.

What about election coordination with the Trump campaign? According to the indictment, “Some Defendants, posing as US persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump Campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities.” It’s not collusion, folks, unless the Trump campaign knew it was working with Russian sources. This line of attack seems to be falling apart.

So, what did these organizations do? They created “certain fictitious US personas into ‘leader[s] of public opinion’ in the United States.” They created thematic group pages including “Blacktivist,” “Secured Borders,” and “Army of Jesus.” They created Twitter accounts like @TEN_GOP, which ended up with more than 100,000 followers. They used identity theft.

So, whom did they support? “They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio, and to support Bernie Sanders and then-candidate Donald Trump.” They encouraged “US minority groups not to vote in the 2016 US presidential election or to vote for a third-party US presidential candidate.” This meant pushing for Jill Stein and against Hillary Clinton. The only coordination seems to have taken place with Florida pro-Trump groups to put together rallies – and those groups didn’t know they were dealing with Russians.

Collusion only counts if you know you’re soliciting help from foreign sources. Those involved with the Trump campaign apparently didn’t. That blows a rather large hole in the theory that the Russians were working hand-in-glove with Trump campaign officials.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Which undercuts Trump's claims that the Russians didn't try to interfere. Again.

[hollodero]

The way I see it this doesn't blow a hole in anything, aside from Trump's repeated claims that it could have been anyone meddling including fat guys or Tschaina.

The indictment is about these 13 people. There's no way for us of knowing if there are other players involved and if there's much more to the whole story in the end.

[Belsnickel]

I still don't expect to see any indictments related to actual conspiring between the Trump campaign and Russia, but according to this it may be a bit too quick to jump to the conclusion that part of the investigation is over.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/mueller-is-said-to-still-be-investigating-collusion-with-russia

Quote:Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his prosecutors haven’t concluded their investigation into whether President Donald Trump or any of his associates helped Russia interfere in the 2016 election, according to a person with knowledge of the probe.

Friday’s indictment of a St. Petersburg-based “troll farm” and 13 Russian nationals should be seen as a limited slice of a comprehensive investigation, the person said. Mueller’s work is expected to continue for months and also includes examining potential obstruction of justice by Trump, said the person, who requested anonymity to discuss an investigation that is largely confidential.

A federal grand jury indicted the Russians for what it alleged was a vast scheme to interfere in the 2016 election and help Trump win. But Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein said at a news conference Friday that there is “no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant” in the alleged scheme.

Trump indicated that he believes the indictment exonerates him and his campaign.

“Russia started their anti-US campaign in 2014, long before I announced that I would run for President. The results of the election were not impacted. The Trump campaign did nothing wrong - no collusion!” Trump said on Twitter.

That has yet to be determined. Friday’s indictment should be seen as an effort by Mueller to raise awareness about Russia’s capabilities as the 2018 U.S. elections draw near, the person said.

It’s still possible that Mueller will indict Americans for knowingly helping Russia, the person said.

Rosenstein, who has been on shaky ground with Trump from the time he named Mueller as special counsel, offered a summary of the indictment that conspicuously skipped its repeated references to the Russian goal of helping Trump win the presidency and hurting his Democratic opponent Hillary Clinton.

Instead, Rosenstein singled out a post-election example of efforts to create turmoil, citing allegations the Russians allegedly staged simultaneous rallies to support President-elect Trump and “to protest his election.”

Asked if Trump officials had been "duped" by the Russians, Rosenstein, said, “The defendants took extraordinary steps to make it appear that they were ordinary American political activists.”

Still, implicit in Rosenstein’s words - and his appearance to announce the indictment - was an endorsement of the work of Mueller, who like Rosenstein has faced intense scrutiny of his work.

Representative Jerrold Nadler, a New York Democrat who serves as ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee, said the announcement Friday should "lay to rest" assertions the investigation was a hoax and preempt efforts to remove officials involved in investigating Trump.

“At this point, any step President Trump may take to interfere with the Special Counsel’s investigation—including removing Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein, or threatening to remove Special Counsel Mueller directly—will have to be seen as a direct attempt to aid the Russian government in attacking American democracy,” Nadler said in a statement.

House Speaker Paul Ryan, a Republican, said the announcement underscored "why we need to follow the facts and work to protect the integrity of future elections.”

[SunsetBengal]

(02-16-2018, 06:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I still don't expect to see any indictments related to actual conspiring between the Trump campaign and Russia, but according to this it may be a bit too quick to jump to the conclusion that part of the investigation is over.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/mueller-is-said-to-still-be-investigating-collusion-with-russia

Oh, I agree.  The investigation will continue, and continue, until some dirt is found on someone, anyone.

However, this breaking news does offer great cover for the fact that the FBI completely blew it on the Florida shooter...

It's almost like a trade off. We lost America 17 people with a botched tip transfer? Ok, here's 16 Russian's that were mind ****ing folks on social media.

[StLucieBengal]

(02-16-2018, 07:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Oh, I agree.  The investigation will continue, and continue, until some dirt is found on someone, anyone.

However, this breaking news does offer great cover for the fact that the FBI completely blew it on the Florida shooter...

It's almost like a trade off. We lost America 17 people with a botched tip transfer? Ok, here's 16 Russian's that were mind ****ing folks on social media.

They keep investigating a non existent trump-Russia connection and don’t seen m to have the time to corral these domestic shooter threats.

[NATI BENGALS]

Thank goodness. They were just duped by Russian trolls. Now lets all sit back and let the morons who cant get security clearances run our country. Nothing bad could possibly happen there. We are in the clear. Full steam ahead with the jackasses in control.

[hollodero]

I'm deeply disturbed that Vladimir Putin lied about all that meddling. And to Donald Trump no less. Who would have thought.

[Belsnickel]

(02-16-2018, 07:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Oh, I agree.  The investigation will continue, and continue, until some dirt is found on someone, anyone.

However, this breaking news does offer great cover for the fact that the FBI completely blew it on the Florida shooter...

It's almost like a trade off. We lost America 17 people with a botched tip transfer? Ok, here's 16 Russian's that were mind ****ing folks on social media.

Well, they have found plenty of dirt on people, already. Hence the guilty pleas. As for the tradeoff comments, this isn't an FBI investigation. So I definitely don't see it that way.

(02-16-2018, 08:34 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: They keep investigating a non existent trump-Russia connection and don’t seen m to have the time to corral these domestic shooter threats.

Well, he is investigating much more than just the possibility of collusion, and Mueller is not the FBI. So yeah.

[GMDino]

(02-16-2018, 09:58 PM)hollodero Wrote: I'm deeply disturbed that Vladimir Putin lied about all that meddling. And to Donald Trump no less. Who would have thought.

Is it a lie if Trump believes it? 

[hollodero]

(02-16-2018, 09:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: Is it a lie if Trump believes it? 

Is it a lie if Trump knows it's a lie.
Which of course would lead to the now really unthinkable scenario in which Donald Trump also lied.

- Nah, Putin probably just had nothing to do with all this and just completely lost control over his intelligence that runs this million dollar operations without even asking him. He, frankly, should be offended!

[ballsofsteel]

Follow the money. This is why Drumph won't release his tax returns. Mueller is coming for you con man.

[BmorePat87]

So Trump is blaming everyone but Putin for this? Sucks when you disagreed with the entire intelligence community and called the investigation a hoax and now you have to decide how to proceed when the investigation indicts 13 Russians for doing what you said they did not do.

[Dill]

(02-16-2018, 07:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Oh, I agree.  The investigation will continue, and continue, until some dirt is found on someone, anyone.

Hasn't "dirt" already been found on "someone," like Mike Flynn, and "anyone," like Trump jr, Paul Manafort,  George Papadopoulos, and Carter page? In fact wasn't it dirt, or at least quite a bit of dust, that kicked off the Russia investigation?

(02-16-2018, 07:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: However, this breaking news does offer great cover for the fact that the FBI completely blew it on the Florida shooter...

It's almost like a trade off.  We lost America 17 people with a botched tip transfer?  Ok, here's 16 Russian's that were mind ****ing folks on social media.

We need some kind of reform of the FBI as an institution so that they can do more than one thing at a time with their 35,000+ employees. 

Putting all leads to potential school shootings in Florida on hold until they get the goods on Trump has put our nation at risk.  Trump needs to stand up to the FBI now, before their credibility is further damaged.

[Bengalholic]

(02-19-2018, 01:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So Trump is blaming everyone but Putin for this? Sucks when you disagreed with the entire intelligence community and called the investigation a hoax and now you have to decide how to proceed when the investigation indicts 13 Russians for doing what you said they did not do.

The fact that he can't bring himself to forcefully condemn Russia - as many of his own appointees are now doing - is beyond strange and sure doesn't meet the 'America First' mantra that he keeps regurgitating.

As for the Mueller investigation, it's multi-pronged as all Special Counsel investigations tend to be, so I would expect there is much more to come. These indictments don't even touch on the WkiLeaks and hacking aspects.

[BmorePat87]

(02-19-2018, 01:16 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The fact that he can't bring himself to forcefully condemn Russia - as many of his own appointees are now doing - is beyond strange and sure doesn't meet the 'America First' mantra that he keeps regurgitating.

As for the Mueller investigation, it's multi-pronged as all Special Counsel investigations tend to be, so I would expect there is much more to come. These indictments don't even touch on the WkiLeaks and hacking aspects.

Congress should be questioning why he won't enforce Russian sanctions. 

[Dill]

(02-19-2018, 01:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So Trump is blaming everyone but Putin for this? Sucks when you disagreed with the entire intelligence community and called the investigation a hoax and now you have to decide how to proceed when the investigation indicts 13 Russians for doing what you said they did not do.

But this indictment proves  conclusively that no one in the Trump campaign was knowingly colluding with these 13. 

If that is the case then it is clearly impossible that Trump campaign people could have been colluding with Lavrov and Kislyak and other active spies and spy recruiters with whom they had frequent--and frequently denied--contact.

Trump has every right to feel vindicated now that the Russia attack on the U.S. election has been revealed as a Russian attack, and greater and deeper than suspected--but from way over there in Leningrad and not the White House, where Trump once entertained the Russian Ambassador, foreign minister, and an undercover Russian intelligence operative--all without oversight from our own intel services.

Time to end this witch hunt before there is another school shooting!

[StLucieBengal]

(02-19-2018, 01:16 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The fact that he can't bring himself to forcefully condemn Russia - as many of his own appointees are now doing - is beyond strange and sure doesn't meet the 'America First' mantra that he keeps regurgitating.

As for the Mueller investigation, it's multi-pronged as all Special Counsel investigations tend to be, so I would expect there is much more to come. These indictments don't even touch on the WkiLeaks and hacking aspects.

(02-19-2018, 01:20 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Congress should be questioning why he won't enforce Russian sanctions. 

He may something brewing with the Russians diplomatically or in regards to intelligence. I would suspect it’s something with North Korea.

[Belsnickel]

(02-19-2018, 03:01 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: He may something brewing with the Russians diplomatically or in regards to intelligence. I would suspect it’s something with North Korea.

Pfft. Tell me, Lucie, how do you think someone like Vladimir Putin would view Trump in any negotiations if he did not take any action against someone for an attack on their country?

[StLucieBengal]

(02-19-2018, 03:04 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Pfft. Tell me, Lucie, how do you think someone like Vladimir Putin would view Trump in any negotiations if he did not take any action against someone for an attack on their country?

He did admonish them and let’s get real Russia already has sanction fatigue.

Plus he is dealing with North Korea and will need the Russians to help get the Chinese in line.