NYPD Officers Unhapppy

[Belsnickel]

Surprised no one has started this thread. It was reported by the NY Post that the NYPD union was cutting back on cards that have been termed "get out of jail free" cards in the media. They were reportedly getting around 30, and that is being cut back to 20. This is said to be the result of some of these cards being sold on eBay.

My question is, why are they given out at all? This is not a benefit that should be given to anyone, but there are discussions online that similar systems are in place in other cities. We've all known that there is the idea that if you know a cop well and get into some minor trouble there can be some winking and nodding and some things can go away. That is common cultural knowledge and still unacceptable, but not as flagrant a violation of the law at these cards are. How is this not a 14th amendment violation?

[*michaelsean*]

I never knew these things existed as a tangible thing. From thirty to twenty, and that's a problem? How many scofflaws do these guys know?

[GMDino]

(01-24-2018, 02:55 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I never knew these things existed as a tangible thing.  From thirty to twenty, and that's a problem?  How many scofflaws do these guys know?

Not including their fellow officers?

[*michaelsean*]

(01-24-2018, 03:12 PM)GMDino Wrote: Not including their fellow officers?

Yeah but they don't need a card.

No big deal for me.  I'll just go back to the tried and true "Do you know who I am?"  

Waiting for SSF to see how many he gets with the LAPD.  (Or whatever Dept he works for)

[Belsnickel]

(01-24-2018, 03:30 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah but they don't need a card.

No big deal for me.  I'll just go back to the tried and true "Do you know who I am?"  

Waiting for SSF to see how many he gets with the LAPD.  (Or whatever Dept he works for)

I'm legitimately curious if there are any other departments that are as brazen as this. LAPD would be the other most likely city for this to happen, but I know the culture is different there. I just don't know how much different.

[CKwi88]

(01-24-2018, 03:30 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Waiting for SSF to see how many he gets with the LAPD.  (Or whatever Dept he works for)

This might have changed since '92 but I think out in LA it's a merit based system calculated by how many blacks you beat up   

I work in court and unfortunately you see this sort of thing among state workers as well. I agree with Matt in that this is a quite brazen example though.

[*michaelsean*]

(01-24-2018, 03:34 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm legitimately curious if there are any other departments that are as brazen as this. LAPD would be the other most likely city for this to happen, but I know the culture is different there. I just don't know how much different.

Now that I think about it, I think some cop my wife knows in Cleveland (where she grew up) gave her some cards that sound like that.  I'd seriously rather take my ticket than risk me handing an officer a card and he looking at me like, "What am I supposed to do with this, douche?"

[Belsnickel]

(01-24-2018, 04:02 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: This might have changed since '92 but I think out in LA it's a merit based system calculated by how many blacks you beat up   

I work in court and unfortunately you see this sort of thing among state workers as well. I agree with Matt in that this is a quite brazen example though.

Yeah, anyone who denies the preferential treatment that is given out anywhere is naive or part of the problem. Even when it isn't involving law enforcement/judicial systems it is a problem for the public sector to engage in. The unfortunate truth is that this is considered one of the benefits of working in the public sector by many. It often seems small and immaterial, but it can raise legitimate constitutional questions. The goals of both the private and public sectors are effectiveness and efficiency, but the public sector adds equity. It is what makes us different, and things like this run contrary to those aims.

I'll get off my soapbox for now.

[*michaelsean*]

(01-24-2018, 04:08 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yeah, anyone who denies the preferential treatment that is given out anywhere is naive or part of the problem. Even when it isn't involving law enforcement/judicial systems it is a problem for the public sector to engage in. The unfortunate truth is that this is considered one of the benefits of working in the public sector by many. It often seems small and immaterial, but it can raise legitimate constitutional questions. The goals of both the private and public sectors are effectiveness and efficiency, but the public sector adds equity. It is what makes us different, and things like this run contrary to those aims.

I'll get off my soapbox for now.

It all depends.  If some guy lets a dad from his kids baseball team off a ticket, I don't care.  Maybe even a DUI without an accident.  People get advantages in life one way or the other based on who they know.  

[Belsnickel]

(01-24-2018, 04:12 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It all depends.  If some guy lets a dad from his kids baseball team off a ticket, I don't care.  Maybe even a DUI without an accident.  People get advantages in life one way or the other based on who they know.  

It's unethical. I know it seems small, and I get that, but maintaining our professional ethics is important. When our ethics systems break down, well, we can see some of those effects now.

[CKwi88]

(01-24-2018, 04:12 PM)michaelsean Wrote: It all depends.  If some guy lets a dad from his kids baseball team off a ticket, I don't care.  Maybe even a DUI without an accident.  People get advantages in life one way or the other based on who they know.  

As Matt alluded to, in the private sector that might fly. In the public sector, me getting a distracted driving ticket thrown out because I'm a state worker is passive corruption.

[*michaelsean*]

(01-24-2018, 04:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's unethical. I know it seems small, and I get that, but maintaining our professional ethics is important. When our ethics systems break down, well, we can see some of those effects now.

I don't know how to quote two people at once so also to CK, I get what you are saying, but it just doesn't bother me.  If it becomes something else like felonies, then I'm bothered.  and this is coming from someone who has absolutely never been let off or given a warning ever.  And no I am always very polite.   

[Au165]

(01-24-2018, 04:24 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't know how to quote two people at once so also to CK, I get what you are saying, but it just doesn't bother me.  If it becomes something else like felonies, then I'm bothered.  and this is coming from someone who has absolutely never been let off or given a warning ever.  And no I am always very polite.   

That's the issue, it's a slippery slope. One man's felony is another man's "not that big a deal". You choose to draw the line at felony, but who knows were some may have already let that line slip to? Maybe another guy only cares if it is a violent felony?

[*michaelsean*]

(01-24-2018, 04:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: That's the issue, it's a slippery slope. One man's felony is another man's "not that big a deal". You choose to draw the line at felony, but who knows were some may have already let that line slip to? Maybe another guy only cares if it is a violent felony?

Then he's wrong because I already drew the line. 

No I'm just saying where I will start to care.  I don't know that the cards are a real good idea, but letting someone off that you know really doesn't bug me.  

[fredtoast]

(01-24-2018, 04:24 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't know how to quote two people at once so also to CK, I get what you are saying, but it just doesn't bother me.

Of course it doesn't bother you.  You are one of the people that receives these benefits.  Your opinion might be a lot different if you had to pay a $200 ticket while the buddy of a cop got off free.


As for the OP I am stunned that they all acknowledge that these cards exist like it is no big deal.

[Au165]

(01-24-2018, 04:34 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Then he's wrong because I already drew the line. 

No I'm just saying where I will start to care.  I don't know that the cards are a real good idea, but letting someone off that you know really doesn't bug me.  

I think I see where you are at, the idea of that officer letting someone THEY know off (Don't agree with it but understand where you are at). The issue is these aren't "If I catch a guy I'll let him off" they are "I can give these to people I know and the other officer should let them off" as some sort of agreement. If an officer chooses to let someone go during a single situation based on whatever situational criteria that is one thing, however a tangible and transferable "Get out of jail free" card is a major issue as it now becomes a commodity for the purpose of circumventing the law.

[*bfine32*]

Martin Luther would roll over in his grave at these Indulgences

[GMDino]

(01-24-2018, 04:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: That's the issue, it's a slippery slope. One man's felony is another man's "not that big a deal". You choose to draw the line at felony, but who knows were some may have already let that line slip to? Maybe another guy only cares if it is a violent felony?

That's why I always say people with that much power must be held to a higher standard.  They could, in theory,  let a drunk buddy go and arrest someone who didn't answer the question in just the right way.

I wouldn't expect special treatment...just fair treatment.  Same as they should treat everyone else.

And yes, I realize I am a hypocrite when I share a story about a cop that buys some guy lunch rather than arrest him for stealing food.  I'd rather see the random help of strangers than the help of a buddy.

[Au165]

(01-24-2018, 04:48 PM)GMDino Wrote: That's why I always say people with that much power must be held to a higher standard.  They could, in theory,  let a drunk buddy go and arrest someone who didn't answer the question in just the right way.

I wouldn't expect special treatment...just fair treatment.  Same as they should treat everyone else.

And yes, I realize I am a hypocrite when I share a story about a cop that buys some guy lunch rather than arrest him for stealing food.  I'd rather see the random help of strangers than the help of a buddy.

The world isn't black or white, it's why mandatory sentencing is a horrible idea. I think you have to give LEO's the ability to use discretion and then check them when it goes to far, but you can't allow for a system to go on that is built around abusing that discretion. 

[GMDino]

(01-24-2018, 04:51 PM)Au165 Wrote: The world isn't black or white, it's why mandatory sentencing is a horrible idea. I think you have to give LEO's the ability to use discretion and then check them when it goes to far, but you can't allow for a system to go on that is built around abusing that discretion. 

Agreed.