NYT: Can my Children be friends with white people

[StLucieBengal]

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/opinion/sunday/interracial-friendship-donald-trump.html?referer=https://t.co/3w1en0a3ei?amp=1

What a clown. And probably a bigot.

Quote:My oldest son, wrestling with a 4-year-old’s happy struggles, is trying to clarify how many people can be his best friend. “My best friends are you and Mama and my brother and …” But even a child’s joy is not immune to this ominous political period. This summer’s images of violence in Charlottesville, Va., prompted an array of questions. “Some people hate others because they are different,” I offer, lamely. A childish but distinct panic enters his voice. “But I’m not different.”

It is impossible to convey the mixture of heartbreak and fear I feel for him. Donald Trump’s election has made it clear that I will teach my boys the lesson generations old, one that I for the most part nearly escaped. I will teach them to be cautious, I will teach them suspicion, and I will teach them distrust. Much sooner than I thought I would, I will have to discuss with my boys whether they can truly be friends with white people.

Meaningful friendship is not just a feeling. It is not simply being able to share a beer. Real friendship is impossible without the ability to trust others, without knowing that your well-being is important to them. The desire to create, maintain or wield power over others destroys the possibility of friendship. The Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s famous dream of black and white children holding hands was a dream precisely because he realized that in Alabama, conditions of dominance made real friendship between white and black people impossible.

History has provided little reason for people of color to trust white people in this way, and these recent months have put in the starkest relief the contempt with which the country measures the value of racial minorities. America is transfixed on the opioid epidemic among white Americans (who often get hooked after being overprescribed painkillers — while studies show that doctors underprescribe pain medication for African-Americans). But when black lives were struck by addiction, we cordoned off minority communities with the police and threw away an entire generation of black and Hispanic men.

Likewise, despite centuries of exclusion and robust evidence of continuing racism, minority underemployment is often couched in the language of bad choices and personal responsibility. When systemic joblessness strikes swaths of white America, we get an entire presidential campaign centered on globalization’s impact on the white working class. Even the nerve of some rich or visible African-Americans to protest that America, in its laws and in its police, has rarely been just to all has been met with the howls of a president who cannot tolerate that the lucky and the uppity do not stay in their place.

As against our gauzy national hopes, I will teach my boys to have profound doubts that friendship with white people is possible. When they ask, I will teach my sons that their beautiful hue is a fault line. Spare me platitudes of how we are all the same on the inside. I first have to keep my boys safe, and so I will teach them before the world shows them this particular brand of rending, violent, often fatal betrayal.

Let me assure you that my heartbreak dwarfs my anger. I grew up in a classic Midwestern college town. With all its American faults, it was a diverse and happy-childhood kind of place, slightly dull in the way that parents wish for their children. If race showed in class lines, school cliques and being pulled over more often, our little Americana lacked the deep racial tension and mistrust that seem so hard to escape now.

What’s surprising is that I am heartbroken at all. It is only for African-Americans who grew up in such a place that watching Mr. Trump is so disorienting. For many weary minorities, the ridiculous thing was thinking friendship was possible in the first place. It hurts only if you believed friendship could bridge the racial gorge.

Of course, the rise of this president has broken bonds on all sides. But for people of color the stakes are different. Imagining we can now be friends across this political line is asking us to ignore our safety and that of our children, to abandon personal regard and self-worth. Only white people can cordon off Mr. Trump’s political meaning, ignore the “unpleasantness” from a position of safety. His election and the year that has followed have fixed the awful thought in my mind too familiar to black Americans: “You can’t trust these people.”


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It is not Mr. Trump himself who has done this. Were it not for our reverence for money, Mr. Trump would be easily recognized as the simple-minded, vulgar, bigoted blowhard he is. It is certainly not the neo-Nazis marching on Charlottesville; we have seen their type before. Rather, what has truly broken my heart are the ranks of Mr. Trump’s many allies and apologists.

Mr. Trump’s supporters are practiced at purposeful blindness. That his political life started with denying, without evidence, that Barack Obama is American — that this black man could truly be the legitimate president — is simply ignored. So, too, is his history of housing discrimination, his casual conflation of Muslims with terrorists, his reducing Mexican-Americans to murderers and rapists. All along, his allies have watched racial pornography, describing black America as pathological. Yet they deny that there is any malice whatsoever in his words and actions. And they dismiss any attempt to recognize the danger of his wide-ranging animus as political correctness.

But the deepest rift is with the apologists, the “good” Trump voters, the white people who understand that Mr. Trump says “unfortunate” things but support him because they like what he says on jobs and taxes. They bristle at the accusation that they supported racism, insisting they had to ignore Mr. Trump’s ugliness. Relying on everyday decency as a shield, they are befuddled at the chill that now separates them from black people in their offices and social circles. They protest: Have they ever said anything racist? Don’t they shovel the sidewalk of the new black neighbors? Surely, they say, politics — a single vote — does not mean we can’t be friends.

I do not write this with liberal condescension or glee. My heart is unbearably heavy when I assure you we cannot be friends.

The same is true, unfortunately, of those who hold no quarter for Mr. Trump but insist that black people need to do the reaching out, the moderating, the accommodating. Imagine the white friend during the civil rights era who disliked blacks’ being beaten to death but wished the whole thing would just settle down. However likable, you could not properly describe her as a friend. Sometimes politics makes demands on the soul.

Don’t misunderstand: White Trump supporters and people of color can like one another. But real friendship? Mr. Trump’s bruised ego invents outrageous claims of voter fraud, not caring that this rhetoric was built upon dogs and water hoses set on black children and even today the relentless effort to silence black voices. His macho talk about “law and order” does not keep communities safe and threatens the very bodies of the little boys I love. No amount of shoveled snow makes it all right, and too many imagine they can have it both ways. It is this desperation to reap the rewards of white power without being so much as indicted that James Baldwin recognized as America’s criminal innocence.

For African-Americans, race has become a proxy not just for politics but also for decency. White faces are swept together, ominous anxiety behind every chance encounter at the airport or smiling white cashier. If they are not clearly allies, they will seem unsafe to me.

Barack Obama’s farewell address encouraged us to reach across partisan lines. But there is a difference between disagreeing over taxes and negotiating one’s place in America, the bodies of your children, your humanity. Our racial wound has undone love and families, and ignoring the depths of the gash will not cause it to heal.

We can still all pretend we are friends. If meaningful civic friendship is impossible, we can make do with mere civility — sharing drinks and watching the game. Indeed, even in Donald Trump’s America, I have not given up on being friends with all white people. My bi-ethnic wife, my most trusted friend, understands she is seen as a white woman, even though her brother and father are not. Among my dearest friends, the wedding party and children’s godparents variety, many are white. But these are the friends who have marched in protest, rushed to airports to protest the president’s travel ban, people who have shared the risks required by strength and decency.

There is hope, though. Implicitly, without meaning to, Mr. Trump asks us if this is the best we can do. It falls to us to do better. We cannot agree on our politics, but we can declare that we stand beside one another against cheap attack and devaluation; that we live together and not simply beside one another. In the coming years, when my boys ask again their questions about who can be their best friend, I pray for a more hopeful answer.

[*michaelsean*]

that's a lot of writing to declare oneself a racist and a moron.

[*bfine32*]

Did he actually blame Drs for Black folk not having an opioid problem?

That's about as far as I made it.

[*michaelsean*]

(11-13-2017, 03:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Did he actually blame Drs for Black folk not having an opioid problem?

That's about as far as I made it.

Yes he did.

[Vlad]

(11-13-2017, 02:37 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/opinion/sunday/interracial-friendship-donald-trump.html?referer=https://t.co/3w1en0a3ei?amp=1

What a clown.  And probably a bigot.  

I'm sure he'll get no argument from Dino.

[BmorePat87]

dumb and racist article is dumb and racist

[Vlad]

An equally out of control liberal lunatic is this woman who believes all men are potential rapists...including her own two sons.

I wrote an essay in The Washington Post last year, during the height of the Brock Turner case, about my sons and rape culture.....
One of my sons was hurt by my words, although he’s never told me so. He doesn’t understand why I lumped him and his brother together in my essay. He sees himself as the “good” one, the one who is sensitive and thoughtful, and who listens instead of reacts. He doesn’t understand that even quiet misogyny is misogyny, and that not all sexists sound like Twitter trolls. He is angry at me now, although he won’t admit that either, and his anger led him to conservative websites and YouTube channels; places where he can surround himself with righteous indignation against feminists, and tell himself it’s ungrateful women like me who are the problem.

And he's right, go make him a sandwich.

http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-politics/details/2017-07-im-done-pretending-men-safe-even-sons/

[*michaelsean*]

(11-13-2017, 09:39 PM)Vlad Wrote: An equally out of control liberal lunatic is this woman who believes all men are potential rapists...including her own two sons.

I wrote an essay in The Washington Post last year, during the height of the Brock Turner case, about my sons and rape culture.....
One of my sons was hurt by my words, although he’s never told me so. He doesn’t understand why I lumped him and his brother together in my essay. He sees himself as the “good” one, the one who is sensitive and thoughtful, and who listens instead of reacts. He doesn’t understand that even quiet misogyny is misogyny, and that not all sexists sound like Twitter trolls. He is angry at me now, although he won’t admit that either, and his anger led him to conservative websites and YouTube channels; places where he can surround himself with righteous indignation against feminists, and tell himself it’s ungrateful women like me who are the problem.

And he's right, go make him a sandwich.

http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-politics/details/2017-07-im-done-pretending-men-safe-even-sons/

Heck of s parent that one.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-13-2017, 09:14 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: dumb and racist  article is dumb and racist

We completely agree.  What is troubling is that the NYT saw fit to give this article space in their organ of record.  Would they deign to do so for Richard Spencer or a member of ISIS?  We have many obstacles to overcome before we view each others as human beings and not ethnicities.  One of those hurdles is not allowing one group to be immune from the relevant criticism that comes from engaging in this type of bigotry.  The Holocaust has certainly not shielded criticism of Israel or given Jewish people free reign to indulge in bigoted dialogue.  I'm against racism and we need to call it out, no matter the melanin content of the speaker's skin.

Can anyone logically disagree with this?

[BmorePat87]

(11-13-2017, 10:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: We completely agree.  What is troubling is that the NYT saw fit to give this article space in their organ of record.  Would they deign to do so for Richard Spencer or a member of ISIS?  We have many obstacles to overcome before we view each others as human beings and not ethnicities.  One of those hurdles is not allowing one group to be immune from the relevant criticism that comes from engaging in this type of bigotry.  The Holocaust has certainly not shielded criticism of Israel or given Jewish people free reign to indulge in bigoted dialogue.  I'm against racism and we need to call it out, no matter the melanin content of the speaker's skin.

Can anyone logically disagree with this?

It was akin to Spencer saying his kids can't ever be friends with black kids because they'll eventually commit crimes against them, which no one would allow in a major newspaper.

A fair and open criticism of institutionalized racism can occur without sweeping generalizations about white people, especially when the generalizations are "all white people".

[Vlad]

(11-13-2017, 10:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: We completely agree.  What is troubling is that the NYT saw fit to give this article space in their organ of record.  Would they deign to do so for Richard Spencer or a member of ISIS?  We have many obstacles to overcome before we view each others as human beings and not ethnicities.  One of those hurdles is not allowing one group to be immune from the relevant criticism that comes from engaging in this type of bigotry.  The Holocaust has certainly not shielded criticism of Israel or given Jewish people free reign to indulge in bigoted dialogue.  I'm against racism and we need to call it out, no matter the melanin content of the speaker's skin.

Can anyone logically disagree with this?

Lol...goin fishin for Dino?

[GMDino]

(11-13-2017, 09:10 PM)Vlad Wrote: I'm sure he'll get no argument from Dino.

(11-13-2017, 10:31 PM)Vlad Wrote: Lol...goin fishin for Dino?

[StLucieBengal]

(11-13-2017, 10:28 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It was akin to Spencer saying his kids can't ever be friends with black kids because they'll eventually commit crimes against them, which no one would allow in a major newspaper.

A fair and open criticism of institutionalized racism can occur without sweeping generalizations about white people, especially when the generalizations are "all white people".

This is part of the problem with the black community. The parenting or lack of parenting. Over 70% of black children grow up in fatherless Homes and now we have this father in the home and telling his kids can be friends with white people.

What a clown. Too bad for his children.

[BmorePat87]

(11-14-2017, 01:58 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: This is part of the problem with the black community.   The parenting or lack of parenting.    Over 70% of black children grow up in fatherless Homes and now we have this father in the home and telling his kids can be friends with white people.    

What a clown.   Too bad for his children.

Thanks for combating racial stereotypes with racial stereotypes. 

[StLucieBengal]

(11-14-2017, 09:05 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Thanks for combating racial stereotypes with racial stereotypes. 

The numbers show out on fatherless and broken Homes in the black community. Sorry if you don’t like it

And of those 30% with fathers in the home.... how many are like this clown? Unfortunately it’s probably more than anyone thinks.

[Vlad]

(11-14-2017, 09:05 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Thanks for combating racial stereotypes with racial stereotypes. 

Just sweep it under the "stereotype" rug and be on your way.

To borrow from football, you're in the Red Zone.  
Not quite there in calling St.Luc a racist, but you're close.

This is an example of why you can't conduct a debate with libs, especially pertaining to race when the issues regarding a certain race become off limits and facts are taboo....and you're a racist if you do.
 
Do you also accuse blacks of promoting stereotypes when they openly talk about these startling numbers?

[Belsnickel]

(11-14-2017, 01:58 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: This is part of the problem with the black community.   The parenting or lack of parenting.    Over 70% of black children grow up in fatherless Homes and now we have this father in the home and telling his kids can be friends with white people.    

What a clown.   Too bad for his children.

(11-14-2017, 10:24 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The numbers show out on fatherless and broken Homes in the black community.   Sorry if you don’t like it

And of those 30% with fathers in the home.... how many are like this clown?  Unfortunately it’s probably more than anyone thinks.

Those statistics are inaccurate. The flaw in this data is it is based on census records which count a single-parent household as one where the parents may not be married, even if they are cohabiting. The census also notoriously under represents minority communities, and so the statistics based on that could be skewed. The CDC has a report from a couple of years ago that dispels this myth in a fair fashion when it comes to the involved father in the African-American community.

[StLucieBengal]

(11-14-2017, 10:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Those statistics are inaccurate. The flaw in this data is it is based on census records which count a single-parent household as one where the parents may not be married, even if they are cohabiting. The census also notoriously under represents minority communities, and so the statistics based on that could be skewed. The CDC has a report from a couple of years ago that dispels this myth in a fair fashion when it comes to the involved father in the African-American community.

The numbers are based off married mother and father in the home. The number one indicator of success and wealth is when a child grows up in a home with a married mother and father . The numbers are staggering how much farther ahead Thise children are when it comes to life.

Child in the womb should be hoping for one thing..... to have a married mother and father in the home.

[GMDino]

(11-14-2017, 11:08 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The numbers are based off married mother and father in the home.   The number one indicator of success and wealth is when a child grows up in a home with a married mother and father .    The numbers are staggering how much farther ahead Thise children are when it comes to life.  

Child in the womb should be hoping for one thing..... to have a married mother and father in the home.

[BmorePat87]

(11-14-2017, 10:49 AM)Vlad Wrote: Just sweep it under the "stereotype" rug and be on your way.

To borrow from football, you're in the Red Zone.  
Not quite there in calling St.Luc a racist, but you're close.

This is an example of why you can't conduct a debate with libs, especially pertaining to race when the issues regarding a certain race become off limits and facts are taboo....and you're a racist if you do.
 
Do you also accuse blacks of promoting stereotypes when they openly talk about these startling numbers?

I don't think stereotyping necessarily makes someone racist, hence me not calling his post racist. 

I think openly criticizing racial stereotypes and then promoting your own in the same thread is hypocritical.