NYT: Trump assaulted two women

[BmorePat87]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/us/politics/donald-trump-women.html?_r=0

The New York Times released stories from two women that describe Trump sexually assaulting them. Trump's lawyers demanded a retraction and the response was humorous

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/13/us/politics/david-mccraw-trump-letter.html

[*Nately120*]

Without reading it I'm going to assume Trump said he followers are so loyal that he could sexually assault them/their own wives/daughters etc and they'd still vote for him.

That would be an impressive statement. I'd vote for him.

[6andcounting]

r/The Donald has already discovered the accuser's claim has oddly specific details that were plagiarized verbatim from a sexual assault case that happened two years before she said Trump did something to her. The story also involves a movable armrest - something that doesn't exist in first-class. Simply finding the flight records would reveal which plane they were on and if it was the one in a million plane that had movable armrests in first class.

And if this is a lie, Trump would win in court - that's what "libel per se" is. The NYT defense of themselves only serves to try to minimize how much damages Trump could claim. They use a Howard Stern quote and claim a secretly recorded leak is a "public statement". It does nothing to actually address the validity of the allegations they reported against him.

[*bfine32*]

I know how many here get riled up with inaccurate thread titles. I hope they'll overlook this one.

As to the accusations: I doubt they will be the last, but I'm in the minority around here that consider folks innocent until proven guilty.

[*Nately120*]

(10-13-2016, 08:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I know how many here get riled up with inaccurate thread titles. I hope they'll overlook this one.

As to the accusations: I doubt they will be the last, but I'm in the minority around here that consider folks innocent until proven guilty.

That's true, but I have to admit when Subway Jared was caught saying he liked to have sex with kids and then kids were like "Jared had sex with me" I got pretty suspicious.

[Matt_Crimson]

(10-13-2016, 09:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That's true, but I have to admit when Subway Jared was caught saying he liked to have sex with kids and then kids were like "Jared had sex with me" I got pretty suspicious.

I would have been pretty suspicious too, considering talking about having sex with children isn't something men normally do.

[*Nately120*]

(10-13-2016, 10:06 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: I would have been pretty suspicious too, considering talking about having sex with children isn't something men normally do.

It would just be bs locker room talk anyways.  If you don't actually do it, what is the harm in talking about it and having some laughs?

[fredtoast]

(10-13-2016, 10:06 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: I would have been pretty suspicious too, considering talking about having sex with children isn't something men normally do.

Real men don't joke about forcing themselves on women either.

I have been in a lot of locker rooms and I have never heard or said anything like that.  There was lots of talk about sex with women, but not doing it without their consent.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(10-13-2016, 10:12 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It would just be bs locker room talk anyways.  If you don't actually do it, what is the harm in talking about it and having some laughs?

Right, that's clearly on the same level.

[fredtoast]

(10-13-2016, 10:12 PM)Nately120 Wrote:  If you don't actually do it, what is the harm in talking about it and having some laughs?

It makes people think it is acceptable behavior.

These guys were not being sarcastic.  They were being 100% serious.  I've heard lots of comedians make racists jokes, but I can tell the difference between them and people who are making serious racist comments.

[*bfine32*]

(10-14-2016, 11:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Real men don't joke about forcing themselves on women either.

I have been in a lot of locker rooms and I have never heard or said anything like that.  There was lots of talk about sex with women, but not doing it without their consent.

Funny, I've been in a locker room or two myself and I have never heard anyone say: "I would hit that, after given full consent".

[Mike M (the other one)]

(10-14-2016, 11:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Real men don't joke about forcing themselves on women either.

I have been in a lot of locker rooms and I have never heard or said anything like that.  There was lots of talk about sex with women, but not doing it without their consent.

yea, and that's exactly what he said hunh?
I force myself onto women hahaha.

Get over, it, a peck on the cheek/lips is not even remotely on the same level. If you want to claim that it's sexual assault then go turn yourself in, cause I have never met a guy that asked for permission to kiss before trying it.

And NOWHERE In that statement did he claim that he personally had groped women.

And yes, most of us normal guys do talk like that. Smack that .... Which technically would be an assault for hitting a woman in a sexual manner, but we know we are just messing around with guy talk so we don't take it extremely serious.

[fredtoast]

(10-14-2016, 12:47 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Get over, it, a peck on the cheek/lips is not even remotely on the same level. 

But that is not what he said he did.

Have you heard the recording?

"I just start kissing.  I don't wait."
"I moved on her very heavily.  I tried to **** her."
"I moved on her like a *****.  I couldn't get there."
"Grab them by the *****.  You can do anything."

[*bfine32*]

(10-14-2016, 12:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But that is not what he said he did.

Have you heard the recording?

"I just start kissing.  I don't wait."
"I moved on her very heavily.  I tried to **** her."
"I moved on her like a *****.  I couldn't get there."
"Grab them by the *****.  You can do anything."

How do the "real men" in your locker room include consent in their talk?

"I'm going to approach her and ask may I kiss her"

"I going to woo her respectfully for a good many weeks and once I think the time is right, I'm going to ask her father for permission to take the relationship to the next level. Then if he gives his blessing, I'm going to ask her will she consent to sexual relations; of course only when we both have not had a drop to drink"

"I will ask her permission to grab her butt, it she said yes, I'm going to place my hand on it, but not squeeze"

It's shit talking. men do it and women do it.

[BmorePat87]

(10-14-2016, 01:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: How do the "real men" in your locker room include consent in their talk?

"I'm going to approach her and ask may I kiss her"

"I going to woo her respectfully for a good many weeks and once I think the time is right, I'm going to ask her father for permission to take the relationship to the next level. Then if he gives his blessing, I'm going to ask her will she consent to sexual relations; of course only when we both have not had a drop to drink"

"I will ask her permission to grab her butt, it she said yes, I'm going to place my hand on it, but not squeeze"

It's shit talking. men do it and women do it.

You keep changing what Trump says from claiming he does these things without permission because he can to him just saying he wants to do these things.

I get why you're doing it, but it doesn't help your argument if you aren't actually defending what he said. 

[*bfine32*]

(10-14-2016, 01:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You keep changing what Trump says from claiming he does these things without permission because he can to him just saying he wants to do these things.

I get why you're doing it, but it doesn't help your argument if you aren't actually defending what he said. 

I'm not changing anything Trump said. I'm trying to assertain from Fred how "Real Men" talk shit in a lockerroom while ensuring consent is understood.

I'd hate to be in a lockerroom of "real men" and mention that I may want to have relations with the lady on the treadmill and be accused of sexual assault, because I didn't add with her given consent.

The "unreal men" that I talk(ed) to usually understand we do not mean against anyone's will. But if folks were to hear a recording of our talk and have an agenda they may make more of it.

[BmorePat87]

(10-14-2016, 02:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not changing anything Trump said. I'm trying to assertain from Fred how "Real Men" talk shit in a lockerroom while ensuring consent is understood.

I'd hate to be in a lockerroom of "real men" and mention that I may want to have relations with the lady on the treadmill and be accused of sexual assault, because I didn't add with her given consent.

The "unreal men" that I talk(ed) to usually understand we do not mean against anyone's will. But if folks were to hear a recording of our talk and have an agenda they may make more of it.

You're trying to compare a man bragging about forcing himself on women because he can to people talking about wanting to have sex with a woman. Then when the former is criticized, you defend the latter. 

Basically what you're doing right now. 

I get it, I wouldn't be able to defend what Trump said at face value either. 

[fredtoast]

(10-14-2016, 02:42 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You're trying to compare a man bragging about forcing himself on women because he can to people talking about wanting to have sex with a woman. Then when the former is criticized, you defend the latter. 

This.

I have been involved in "locker room talk" about women and none of us ever bragged about being able to take advantage of women just because we were in positions of power.

[*bfine32*]

(10-14-2016, 02:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This.

I have been involved in "locker room talk" about women and none of us ever bragged about being able to take advantage of women just because we were in positions of power.

Once again I'll ask the question: How did you guys ensure consent was given during your "locker room talk"?

I have talked about women being open to my advances because I am in a posistion of power; this is mostly due to the powers of my good looks, charm, and reputation (you know, referent power)

What do you use; pity?

[*bfine32*]

(10-14-2016, 02:42 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You're trying to compare a man bragging about forcing himself on women because he can to people talking about wanting to have sex with a woman. Then when the former is criticized, you defend the latter. 

Basically what you're doing right now. 

I get it, I wouldn't be able to defend what Trump said at face value either. 

Do you understand the meaning of "let"? Where did Trump say he forced himself on anybody?

I get it; you want it to seem more than it really is.

The whole end of Trump's conversation reminds me of the sceene when Rudd and Rogen talk about having their way with Kenner. Each one escalates what they would do to sexually assault her:

One says

I'd do her with the plastic covers on the furniture

the next says

I'd do her while she watched Murder she wrote

ect...

Basically an escalation, too bad you, Fred, and other viewed that as sexual assault; it was quite funny.