NYT: Trump assaulted two women

[Vas Deferens]

(10-14-2016, 08:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: How many of those have been proven true? I know those who defend Hillary because few of the scandals have been proven true are waiting till these are proven true before criticizing Trump.

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It kind of gives the claims of daddy putting his hand up womens skirts a little more credence when daddy says himself he's able to 'grab them by the *****'.

Not sure what there is to defend anymore.  The damage is done.  The idea that someone would be able to avoid a past like his and become the POTUS validates my constant suspicion that he's a plant.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-14-2016, 08:25 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: It kind of gives the claims of daddy putting his hand up womens skirts a little more credence when daddy says himself he's able to 'grab them by the *****'.

Not sure what there is to defend anymore.  The damage is done.  The idea that someone would be able to avoid a past like his and become the POTUS validates my constant suspicion that he's a plant.

Well, people are overlooking Hillary's crimes and her own sordid past and still vote for her. Is there any surprise that some will do the same for Trump?

With that said, some on here (don't recall if you're one of them) have said we can't really hold Hillary's controversies against her because most haven't really been proven. I just want them to start, er, remain consistent.

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[Vas Deferens]

(10-14-2016, 08:31 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Well, people are overlooking Hillary's crimes and her own sordid past and still vote for her. Is there any surprise that some will do the same for Trump?

With that said, some on here (don't  recall if you're one of them) have said we can't really hold Hillary's controversies against her because most haven't really been proven. I just want them to start, er, remain consistent.

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I am not one of them. She's a real POS that rigged the DNC because she feels entitled to the position.  That being said, still trust her with our country more than the idiot.  

[Belsnickel]

(10-14-2016, 06:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Is it your assertion because they are weak?

That was like some 2+2=Banana logic. I really have no idea what path you travelled down for that one.

[*bfine32*]

(10-14-2016, 09:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That was like some 2+2=Banana logic. I really have no idea what path you travelled down for that one.

So why didn't any of these folks come forward in the same decade they were assaulted?

What you view with a smiley; I view as a wake up. If nothing else comes out of the mess I hope the notion to come forward strongly when you feel you are assaulted is stressed. Applauding women that come forward a decade later does absolutely nothing. 

Nobody here condones sexual assault, but those that experience this must understand that you must come forward immediately. You not only help yourself but possibly others.  

[hollodero]

(10-14-2016, 09:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So why didn't any of these folks come forward in the same decade they were assaulted?^

Well, what do you think. Why didn't they just come out against a powerful man with connections to the very top who probably would sue the women for defamation.
Really, why didn't they. Just because they wouldn't stand a chance, would be shamed and possibly ruined?

At some point, I don't get this any more.
First you said normal talk amongst guys (which it really isn't), then you say only Billy Bush is the creep here (he is one, but this is a two-person dance really), then you claim a phrase like "I don't even wait" means in no way something unconsensual, then you say there is no proof he actually molested women. Now up to 6 women state he actually did as he himself said - which in my eyes is proof - and now you say it's all their fault and it's too late now. No matter what, you defend grabby Donald through all this darkness and amorality.

Guess my question at this point is: Why?
(If you choose to answer, please don't talk about Hillary. My question has nothing to do with her, nor should it.)

[NATI BENGALS]

(10-14-2016, 10:00 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, what do you think. Why didn't they just come out against a powerful man with connections to the very top who probably would sue the women for defamation.
Really, why didn't they. Just because they wouldn't stand a chance, would be shamed and possibly ruined?

At some point, I don't get this any more.
First you said normal talk amongst guys (which it really isn't), then you say only Billy Bush is the creep here (he is one, but this is a two-person dance really), then you claim a phrase like "I don't even wait" means in no way something unconsensual, then you say there is no proof he actually molested women. Now up to 6 women state he actually did as he himself said - which in my eyes is proof - and now you say it's all their fault and it's too late now. No matter what, you defend grabby Donald through all this darkness and amorality.

Guess my question at this point is: Why?
(If you choose to answer, please don't talk about Hillary. My question has nothing to do with her, nor should it.)

Dont mean to answer for him. But it should be super obvious. He isnt a Trump supporter. He just has strong religious beliefs.

[*bfine32*]

(10-14-2016, 10:00 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, what do you think. Why didn't they just come out against a powerful man with connections to the very top who probably would sue the women for defamation.
Really, why didn't they. Just because they wouldn't stand a chance, would be shamed and possibly ruined?

At some point, I don't get this any more.
First you said normal talk amongst guys (which it really isn't), then you say only Billy Bush is the creep here (he is one, but this is a two-person dance really), then you claim a phrase like "I don't even wait" means in no way something unconsensual, then you say there is no proof he actually molested women. Now up to 6 women state he actually did as he himself said - which in my eyes is proof - and now you say it's all their fault and it's too late now. No matter what, you defend grabby Donald through all this darkness and amorality.

Guess my question at this point is: Why?
(If you choose to answer, please don't talk about Hillary. My question has nothing to do with her, nor should it.)

Well unfortunately for you, but fortunately for everybody else you do not get to decide who is guilty or not. If there were "proof" that he committed sexual assault he very well would be charged with a crime. 

I suppose the "why" is because I believe in due process and the presumption of innocence. I would most likely defend anyone against a lynch mob.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

This election is the worst I've ever seen and neither nominee is deserving of the Presidency. I haven't yet decided who I'm going to vote for, but it won't be either of these two. Regardless of who wins, we're all ****** for at least the next four years. So if there is just one good thing, just ONE, to come of this election maybe it would some of you sit down and read about the victims of sexual assault so you understand why the MAJORITY of victims NEVER report the crime. Although asking for one good thing to come of this cluster **** is probably too much to ask.

I purposely picked an article which doesn't have anything to do with Donald Trump so maybe you can try to read it with an open mind. 

http://www.pcar.org/blog/common-victim-behaviors-survivors-sexual-abuse

Quote:You are here

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Common victim behaviors of survivors of sexual abuse

Submitted by akulikowski on March 26, 2013 - 1:43am

 In light of the recent media coverage related to Jerry Sandusky, the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape, the National Sexual Violence Resource Center and MaleSurvivor would like to remind members of the media about normal behaviors that are common for survivors of sexual abuse:

Victim privacy is a basic need. The identity of sexual abuse victims should be protected.
It is common practice for members of the media to refrain from using the victims’ names unless given explicit permission from the victim. 

Keeping victim names private protects victims from further re-victimization that can occur when they lose control of their very personal and painful story or when members of their community or the public at large blame, question, disbelieve or harass them. We just witnessed these damaging actions further victimize “Jane Doe” in the Steubenville, OH rape case. Further, the fear of being “outed” keeps many survivors silent about what happened to them and who did it, which means offenders go unreported.

Survivors of sexual assault are most often the only people who can identify the sex offenders in any community, and they need to trust that their privacy will be respected in order to do so. We appreciate the understanding and cooperation of journalists and bloggers in protecting the identity and privacy of all survivors of sexual assault.

It is common for survivors of sexual assault to initially deny they were abused.

In the words of Joe McGettigan, lead prosecutor in the Sandusky case, “Humiliation, shame and fear equal silence. These emotions cause that response.”

Offenders reinforce these feelings by the things they say and do to victims. They use the shame and fear to bind the victim to them and isolate them from others who might help them. The victim is left feeling alone, isolated and very different from everyone around them.

Victims describe this as a surreal feeling –to see other kids leading normal lives all around them, but feel so different and separate from them due to the abuse they have endured. This shame and silence can last for decades.

Many survivors wait until well into their adult hood to share their secret. For many male victims, the shame and secrecy is compounded by the fear that their own sexuality may have something to do with it, or at least that others will think so. We must look at the stories of children with the eyes of children and recognize that a 10-year-old or 14-year-old boy has little language or understanding of human sexuality, and may have a very difficult time understanding that manipulation, abuse, exploitation and violence are not related to their own sexuality.

Delayed reporting of sexual abuse is a common, normal reaction from someone who has experienced traumatic events.
Sexual abuse can cause intense feelings of embarrassment, fear and humiliation. Survivors are often terrified that they will not be believed and ashamed that they don’t know how to stop the abuse. Victims often feel trapped between wanting the abuse to stop and being terrified of other people learning what has been done to them. That fear can keep victims silent while the abuse is going on, and for years after it has stopped.

It is important to remember that child victims often feel very confused about the abuse while it is ongoing. Offenders may use fun or care taking activities to push the boundaries of a child and create a bond, such as teaching innocent hygiene and introducing games, but including “accidental” sexual touching.

Many victims continue to have a relationship with their abuser.

Though it may be difficult for the public to understand, it is common for survivors of sexual abuse to continue relationships with their abusers after the abuse has stopped. Individuals react to trauma in different ways. For example, it is common for victims to maintain contact with their abusers because they may still feel affection for them even though they hate the abuse. This is especially normal when the abuser is a member of the family or a close family friend. It is also common for some victims to maintain contact in an attempt to regain control over their assault. Others may maintain contact in an attempt to regain a feeling of normalcy.

Additionally, offenders often intentionally build a connection or a bond that isn't broken as a result of sexual abuse. The abuse is often one element of an otherwise loving or fun relationship. Offenders may intentionally maintain the non-abusive parts of the relationship to keep victims feeling close to them and thus less likely to report the prior abuse.
A victim's view of the offender's actions change over time.

An adult understands and views sexuality very differently than a child. The knowledge we gain with experience and time can give us the tools to better understand an event that happened when he or she was younger. It is common for survivors to not name their experiences as abuse until they are in adulthood.

It is normal for a victim’s story to evolve throughout the investigative process.
Initially a victim may say nothing happened. It is not uncommon for victims to delay reporting sexual abuse or to deny that they were abused when they are initially questioned. Reasons could include fear of the stigma associated with the abuse, embarrassment and retaliation.

Victims may deny the abuse they’ve suffered, or misrepresent parts of their story.
Many victims try to hide what is happening to them by outright denying it when others ask (including classmates who may make jokes, tease or bully them based on the irregular relationship they see or sense), and by making statements with false bravado.

Sometimes victims fear getting in trouble for their own "bad" or illegal behavior (underage drinking, using drugs, lying to parents about where they are or who they are with) and will make false statements to friends, family and even investigators about those acts.

These false statements do not mean that the entire account of abuse is false. In fact, offenders may intentionally encourage victims to engage in bad or illegal behavior knowing it is one more layer of protection for themselves should the victim report their sexual assaults.

It is normal for victims to freeze and be unable to physically fend off their abuser. 

When faced with imminent threat or danger, most humans will freeze as opposed to fighting or fleeing. This hard-wired, biological response is an automatic impulse that is seen in many other species. The brain instruct parts of the body to literally "shut down" in order to improve the odds of surviving a dangerous traumatic situation.

No victim—whether a teenager, adult, male or female—should have their instinctive response to being sexually assaulted called in to question. No victim should be expected to prevent or interrupt their abuse. The fault for abuse lies squarely on the abuser.

The Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape is the oldest state anti-sexual violence coalition in the U.S. The organization represents 50 sexual assault centers that serve the state’s 67 counties. Each year these centers provide education and confidential services, at no charge, to more than 30,000 men, women and children affected by sexual abuse. 

Founded by the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape in 2000, the National Sexual Violence Resource Center identifies, develops and disseminates resources regarding all aspects of sexual violence prevention and intervention. 

MaleSurvivor is committed to preventing, healing, and eliminating all forms of sexual victimization of boys and men through support, treatment, research, education, advocacy, and activism.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-15-2016, 01:26 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Well unfortunately for you, but fortunately for everybody else you do not get to decide who is guilty or not. If there were "proof" that he committed sexual assault he very well would be charged with a crime. 

I suppose the "why" is because I believe in due process and the presumption of innocence. I would most likely defend anyone against a lynch mob.

Well, fortunately for Donald Trump, but unfortunately for women, how does a woman prove she didn't "let" Donald Trump grab her by the ***** because he is a star?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-14-2016, 09:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nobody here condones sexual assault

That's not true. I've read four people in this thread alone who have made excuses. 

[NATI BENGALS]

Just listen to The Don's arguments. Have you seen these women? In their wildest dreams would the orange phenom pursue them sexually. It doesnt get more concrete than that that he didnt do these things.

Brag about it on video, smile about the accusations, children with multiple wives, obsession with beauty pageants, soooo what. Just because he talked about it, lived it, and made a career out of it doesnt mean he did it.

Wait, what?

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP
GRAB EM BY THE PUS**

[hollodero]

(10-15-2016, 01:26 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Well unfortunately for you, but fortunately for everybody else you do not get to decide who is guilty or not. If there were "proof" that he committed sexual assault he very well would be charged with a crime. 

I suppose the "why" is because I believe in due process and the presumption of innocence. I would most likely defend anyone against a lynch mob.

So as long as he is not actually charged with a crime, you keep backing him up no matter what.

As if it were about sentencing him to prison and you were a juror. When in fact it's about making him your next president and you are a voter. A situation where a different mindset is to be applied.

Regarding "lynch mob": All the "lynching" that's on the table right now is not voting for him and recognizing that he amongst other things is a sexist, amoral douchebag (but not convicted of a crime! Good luck explaining this logic to your kids one day). You chose a peculiar word here.
Now if people would shout "lock him up!", I would at least get your point.

[BmorePat87]

(10-14-2016, 06:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ..and you're still not answering the questions posed so you can write your own narrative. 

I made it pretty clear that I'm not interested in entertaining your false comparisons. 

[BmorePat87]

(10-14-2016, 05:44 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: And people wonder why sexual assault victims don't come forward very often.

He has now also said that the one from the plane isn't good looking enough for him to do that.


Not that groping is bad, but that she's not good looking enough to grope.

How does anyone defend this?

[BmorePat87]

(10-15-2016, 02:43 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Just listen to The Don's arguments. Have you seen these women? In their wildest dreams would the orange phenom pursue them sexually. It doesnt get more concrete than that that he didnt do these things.

Brag about it on video, smile about the accusations, children with multiple wives, obsession with beauty pageants, soooo what. Just because he talked about it, lived it, and made a career out of it doesnt mean he did it.

Wait, what?

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP
GRAB EM BY THE PUS**

He doesn't defend himself by saying sexual assault is bad. He defends himself by saying these women aren't good looking enough for him to sexually assault.


This is a man who has been caught on camera saying about preteen girls "I'll be dating her in 10 years".

A man who told a radio host he could call his daughter "a piece of ass" and talked about her breasts with him.

We have people screaming for family values, traditional marriage, and that trans people are predators. Meanwhile, they're defending this man. Party over integrity.

[Vas Deferens]

(10-15-2016, 09:18 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: He doesn't defend himself by saying sexual assault is bad. He defends himself by saying these women aren't good looking enough for him to sexually assault.


This is a man who has been caught on camera saying about preteen girls "I'll be dating her in 10 years".

A man who told a radio host he could call his daughter "a piece of ass" and talked about her breasts with him.

We have people screaming for family values, traditional marriage, and that trans people are predators. Meanwhile, they're defending this man. Party over integrity.

Ha.  Integrity. 

[xxlt]

(10-13-2016, 08:22 PM)6andcounting Wrote: r/The Donald has already discovered the accuser's claim has oddly specific details that were plagiarized verbatim from a sexual assault case that happened two years before she said Trump did something to her. The story also involves a movable armrest - something that doesn't exist in first-class. Simply finding the flight records would reveal which plane they were on and if it was the one in a million plane that had movable armrests in first class.

And if this is a lie, Trump would win in court - that's what "libel per se" is.  The NYT defense of themselves only serves to try to minimize how much damages Trump could claim. They use a Howard Stern quote and claim a secretly recorded leak is a "public statement". It does nothing to actually address the validity of the allegations they reported against him.

There is just one tiny problem: the victim never said the arm rest was moved. But keep defending sexual assault and denigrating women. You wear it well. Almost as well as DT himself.

[*bfine32*]

(10-15-2016, 09:08 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I made it pretty clear that I'm not interested in entertaining your false comparisons. 

What you've made clear is that your opinions are based on assumptions. Not sure what is false about disputing things that you insert into the narrative. 

[xxlt]

(10-14-2016, 08:25 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: It kind of gives the claims of daddy putting his hand up womens skirts a little more credence when daddy says himself he's able to 'grab them by the *****'.

Not sure what there is to defend anymore.  The damage is done.  The idea that someone would be able to avoid a past like his and become the POTUS validates my constant suspicion that he's a plant.

Have you seen the pictures of the hillbillies at his rallies wearing "Donald grab my snatch" and "Trump, grab my wormens *****"?! I go back and forth on the plant theory, with people like these and a handful of posters on here making me think he is a real candidate who will get real votes, maybe even some electoral votes. After all, everything is bigger in Texas, including ignorance...