(09-21-2017, 04:15 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I guess I could see it that way. I don't know if I can say that I agree, but I can see the logic in what you say.
I don't know. I'll give it some thought. Let you know if you convinced me.
I look at it as there being several different types of voters/supporters for a candidate or party. Every candidate has a lot of people that are lukewarm to them, but they vote that way because they just like them a little more or because they are party loyalists (difference between a candidate's base and a party's base is evident here). But successful candidate must have a base, they must have those people that are excited about the candidate. Not because they aren't the other person, not because of the letter next to their name, but because of what the candidate says and does. This is why they are the base, because without that base, the support for the candidate will falter and they will not succeed.
This is why when we talk about politicians "playing to their base" we are referring to them making comments or taking actions that play well for those most ardent supporters. When Trump plays to his base, he often does so at the expense of those that were just voting for him because he wasn't Clinton or because he ran as an R.
Just a little further explanation of how I see the base.
(09-21-2017, 04:12 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, I don't, because I don't know why she's clutching her purse closer. Is because she does that for ANY group of guys regardless of race? Or is it because she's a racist? If it's the latter, then she's a racist.
True, but preferring redheads over brunettes isn't exactly the same thing as thinking all white people should be killed.
So you disagree that there's a prejudice scale but agree that some prejudice aren't as bad as others?
(09-21-2017, 04:37 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So you disagree that there's a prejudice scale but agree that some prejudice aren't as bad as others?
Yes. I might be prejudiced against coffee (can't stand it), but that's not as bad as say the hatred of white people espoused by many people of color. However, that doesn't mean I'm still not prejudiced against coffee.
(09-21-2017, 05:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes. I might be prejudiced against coffee (can't stand it), but that's not as bad as say the hatred of white people espoused by many people of color. However, that doesn't mean I'm still not prejudiced against coffee.
Like I said, racism and bigotry are on the far end of the scale.
(09-21-2017, 04:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I didn't read the OP saying that, but I'm also not sure what you are saying. Are you saying there was a claim by the OP that DACA recipients are a part of the base of the right wing? That's my best inference from your post, and if so, I would have to say that DACA recipients make up far too varied of a group for me to agree or disagree with them being the base for any politician, party, ideology, etc.
Typo on my part should have typed left instead of right. I was asking given your definition of base. Would you consider those eligible for DACA a base of the left; as the OP suggests.
Folks can change definitions all they want to fit their agenda; however, just know:
(09-21-2017, 05:37 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Like I said, racism and bigotry are on the far end of the scale.
You clearly don't know what "scale" means. There is no scale. Just because most of us agree that one's prejudice towards drinking a certain beverage is not as bad as hating another human being for the color of their skin does not mean that there's a "scale of prejudice" where the worst prejudices reside on one end. If you believed that, then you would believe that one could travel up and down the scale and become MORE prejudiced or less. And that just doesn't happen. You either are or are not prejudiced towards something or someone in particular.
It's like pregnancy. You are either pregnant or you're not pregnant. Whether you're 9 months and ready to deliver or you just missed a period and found out you're pregnant, you're still pregnant. There is no scale of pregnancy. Just a how long have you been pregnant.
(09-21-2017, 06:19 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You clearly don't know what "scale" means. There is no scale. Just because most of us agree that one's prejudice towards drinking a certain beverage is not as bad as hating another human being for the color of their skin does not mean that there's a "scale of prejudice" where the worst prejudices reside on one end. If you believed that, then you would believe that one could travel up and down the scale and become MORE prejudiced or less. And that just doesn't happen. You either are or are not prejudiced towards something or someone in particular.
It's like pregnancy. You are either pregnant or you're not pregnant. Whether you're 9 months and ready to deliver or you just missed a period and found out you're pregnant, you're still pregnant. There is no scale of pregnancy. Just a how long have you been pregnant.
It's amusing watching you repeated 5 times that some prejudice is worse than others and then say that it's not possible for some prejudice to be worse than others.
The reality is that every single person holds some sort of prejudice for or against groups of people. It can be as subtle as assumptions about a group like thinking the the latino guy at the restaurant doesn't speak English or it could be "a hatred for white people that many people of color have" as you keep mentioning. This is a real thing social scientists study.
(09-21-2017, 06:52 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Lovable snark to mask ignorance. I missed this during your time out.
It was cute when you tried to take a jab at me in your response to Matt. Next time just reply to me, champ.
Help me out instead of belittling me:
What is on the near end of the prejudice scale?
My response to Matt was more of a jab at Matt; as he was the one that provided his definition of a base (I think it was be loud). Provide me with yours and maybe I can take a jab at it.
(09-21-2017, 06:49 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It's amusing watching you repeated 5 times that some prejudice is worse than others and then say that it's not possible for some prejudice to be worse than others.
Nope. Not what I said at all. Might want to re-read what I said again.
(09-21-2017, 06:49 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The reality is that every single person holds some sort of prejudice for or against groups of people. It can be as subtle as assumptions about a group like thinking the the latino guy at the restaurant doesn't speak English or it could be "a hatred for white people that many people of color have" as you keep mentioning. This is a real thing social scientists study.
That may be true. Doesn't mean there's a scale of prejudice.
(09-21-2017, 06:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Help me out instead of belittling me:
What is on the near end of the prejudice scale?
My response to Matt was more of a jab at Matt; as he was the one that provided his definition of a base (I think it was be loud). Provide me with yours and maybe I can take a jab at it.
I gave a few examples of prejudices that may be unconscious that someone wouldn't necessarily call "racist". They included a white woman clutching her purse when walking past a black guy or someone assuming a Latino person doesn't speak English.
My definition of base was included in my response to you in post 70. "any reliable group of voters". My apologies for assuming that was an indirect attack at me. I don't mean to belittle unless I feel I am being belittled, which itself isn't a productive attitude to hold. I'm being sincere here. That's on me, my bad, man.
(09-21-2017, 06:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Typo on my part should have typed left instead of right. I was asking given your definition of base. Would you consider those eligible for DACA a base of the left; as the OP suggests.
Folks can change definitions all they want to fit their agenda; however, just know:
Trump's political base was Republican
Hillary's political base was Democrat
I would not. I know some DACA recipients that are conservative. It's a varied group.
As for the bases as you list them, I disagree. Trump was elected espousing rhetoric that was not Republican at all. His most ardent supporters would not have been Republican because of this. I know that if you look at a Wikipedia article on a political base they refer to the party, but that isn't a hard and fast definition. Political science is more nuanced than that.
(09-21-2017, 10:29 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I would not. I know some DACA recipients that are conservative. It's a varied group.
As for the bases as you list them, I disagree. Trump was elected espousing rhetoric that was not Republican at all. His most ardent supporters would not have been Republican because of this. I know that if you look at a Wikipedia article on a political base they refer to the party, but that isn't a hard and fast definition. Political science I see more nuanced than that.
We'll just disagree on what a Political Base is. What you are considering a base; I consider a fringe support groups.
Trump's signature proposals have targeted practically everyone except straight, white, Christian males who are upset Snoop Dog can use the n-word, but they can't. However, Trump has proven he isn't a white supremacist by his willingness to **** us all over with Trumpcare regardless of age, sex, race, religion, country of origin, gender, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, etc.
(09-21-2017, 11:14 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I call bullshit.
Look, everyone does/says racist things, and people that are blatantly racist will often do things that are counter to their racist views for a number of reasons. Just because a racist votes for someone that isn't white doesn't mean they aren't a racist.
So are they really racist at all? Or just does everyone have some moments where they are uncivilized, rude, or an ahole?
(09-22-2017, 10:20 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So are they really racist at all? Or just does everyone have some moments where they are uncivilized, rude, or an ahole?
Yes, they are still racists. One can be a racist without being an asshole all the time. My father for example, very racist. Nice guy to everyone, but he is racist.
(09-21-2017, 10:29 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I would not. I know some DACA recipients that are conservative. It's a varied group.
As for the bases as you list them, I disagree. Trump was elected espousing rhetoric that was not Republican at all. His most ardent supporters would not have been Republican because of this. I know that if you look at a Wikipedia article on a political base they refer to the party, but that isn't a hard and fast definition. Political science is more nuanced than that.
Trump is a truly centrist president. He is as independent as they get.
Had the conservatives had their way it would be President Ted Cruz.
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