"National Walk-Out Day"

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2018, 11:10 AM)Millhouse Wrote: I wonder why students don't get energetic to stage walkouts to bring an end to texting & driving, when statistically there are far more teen deaths caused by it.

Probably because there has already been a law passed against it.

These student walk out are not aimed at getting a message to potential killers to stop shooting.  They are aimed at legislators who refuse to take steps to prevent more mass killings.  I don't really see what additional legal steps could be taken to prevent texting and driving.

[*bfine32*]

(03-15-2018, 10:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not sure exactly what you mean by this (anticipating the usual "I never said that" defense)But I have two daughters age 12 and 14 and their desire to be heard was not influenced by an adult.  They are highly intelligent young ladies able of forming their own opinions.  They are insulted by all the claims that they are just ignorant puppets.

So your 2 daughters are old enough to consent?

I have no doubt that many of the student's thought were genuine, but whatever they did was influenced by an adult as they are not of the legal age to consent. 

[*bfine32*]

(03-15-2018, 10:49 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I agree. It was influenced by adults failing to do their jobs regarding the shooter. It was influenced by the adult shooter. It was influenced by adults continuing to not do a damn thing about the issue of school shootings or gun violence in general other than "more guns." It was influenced by the adults in the NRA.

I know this wasn't what you were implying, but these movements are being led by the teenagers (and sometimes younger). They may get organizing tips and help from adults, but they are leading their own movement. This isn't the first time this has happened in this country, which is unfortunate, because it means that the adults are failing the children when they have to do this.

Well perhaps you should have a word with the adults and children in Dino's school district; as they ensured it was not about political reasons, and you are suggesting it is entirely about political reasons. 

[*bfine32*]

Some folks may want to read a certain William Golding novel.

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2018, 12:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So your 2 daughters are old enough to consent?

I have no doubt that many of the student's thought were genuine, but whatever they did was influenced by an adult as they are not of the legal age to consent. 

Age of consent has nothing to do with this.  My daughters have a lot of opinions that are different from mine.  Just because they can not legally act on them does not mean theses ideas were formed by adults. 

My consent does not control what they believe it only controls what legal actions they can take on their beliefs.

[Dill]

(03-15-2018, 12:34 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I do not know whether you are right or not, but if any adult manipulated a child to do their bidding then I have a special place of loathe for them. 

I have read comments all day (not here, on objective forums) about the pros and cons on this movement. Whatever happened, it was influenced by an adult. 

I agree. I am guessing that there are teachers at these schools who are teaching students how our government works and what their rights are, and the responsibilities of elected officials.  That is certainly "influence" and may give students ideas about exercising political power if they start wondering why their legislators are so responsive to the gun lobby. If schools would remove education for citizenship from their curricula and focus on job training, there would be so much less resistance to the status quo.

There is also some possibility that students Parkland were motivated by the trauma of fleeing a shooter and losing some of their friends.  So the shooter is an "influence" as well, though if adults had not been filling students' heads with ideas of democracy and political accountability I'm pretty sure we would not see all this marching and protesting. It is a nation wide problem, not just at Parkland.

[Belsnickel]

(03-15-2018, 12:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well perhaps you should have a word with the adults and children in Dino's school district; as they ensured it was not about political reasons, and you are suggesting it is entirely about political reasons. 

My comments were political, but I was not assigning political intent to the movement by the students. I was merely pointing out that were it not for the influence of those adults, these children wouldn't have to be leading their own movement.

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2018, 12:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Some folks may want to read a certain William Golding novel.

The one where kids make decisions without any adult influence, and end up making the same decisions that adults make?

[GMDino]

(03-15-2018, 12:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well perhaps you should have a word with the adults and children in Dino's school district; as they ensured it was not about political reasons, and you are suggesting it is entirely about political reasons. 

Anyone else smell vinegar?  Just me?  Okay.

It is about what was LOCALLY done.  I can tell you 100% that it wasn't "influenced by an adult".  It was the students idea and the students plan.

You certainly don't have to believe it, and it might be hard to see from way up on the pedestal of "I am unbiased unlike everyone else"...but it is 100% true.

If someone wants to paint with a broad brush about all walkouts as you did then they better damn well not complain when responsible gun owners are swept up with the nut jobs and extremists.

[BmorePat87]

We had a really good turnout in my county. Our school had roughly 500-600 students of 1400 come out. They choose to have a rally at the football field and students ran it entirely. They spook about being a voice for their generation and the importance of standing uniting, because when things bring down one, they bring down everyone else connected to that one person.

Other schools in my county had similar showings.

[*Nately120*]

(03-15-2018, 11:10 AM)Millhouse Wrote: I wonder why students don't get energetic to stage walkouts to bring an end to texting & driving, when statistically there are far more teen deaths caused by it.

If you google "student rally against texting while driving" you'll find more than 0 things from the past decade. I'm not sure if there is enough energy behind the movement to justify kids getting all bent out of shape over being shot, too though.

(03-15-2018, 12:06 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So your 2 daughters are old enough to consent?

I have no doubt that many of the student's thought were genuine, but whatever they did was influenced by an adult as they are not of the legal age to consent. 

I didn't consent to that damn baptism or circumcision either, but my soul is still damned and my foreskin is still waiting for me in hell all the same. In all seriousness, whatever happened to the "grownups know best" mentality? Adults make the laws! Listen to your elders! Father knows best! All that good wisdom and parenting only counts as a good thing when it isn't promoting left-wing ideas? What are the rules here?

[StLucieBengal]

(03-14-2018, 11:19 PM)GMDino Wrote: I can say, with a doubt in my mind, you are wrong.

But then I have a child who is a student who participated in one and a nephew that participated in another and I am not simple knee jerk posting due to political and personal bias but rather from being informed on the event.

(03-15-2018, 12:32 AM)Benton Wrote: Much like the social media declaring "I support the millions of kids not walking out and supporting the 2nd Amendment"?

In my experience, several local students traveled a few hundred miles to observe a peaceful 'sit in' that they organized at our state capitol . Nothing whatsoever with "radical groups." Not mischaracterizing that would be great.

(03-15-2018, 12:34 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I do not know whether you are right or not, but if any adult manipulated a child to do their bidding then I have a special place of loathe for them. 

I have read comments all day (not here, on objective forums) about the pros and cons on this movement. Whatever happened, it was influenced by an adult. 

What this really is not a call for an agenda, it’s not an agenda driven march, what it is about is a lot of photos of a lot of young people, standing around saying they hate gun violence so a bunch of leftist politicians can claim they are standing with the children and pushing for vast gun confiscation regimes. The NYT basically admits this in heir editorial pages .

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/opinion/students-walkout-gun-protest.html

They want the children to lead us. Which is fine except I don’t see the times turning over their editorial board to teenagers. I’m sure they will run plenty on whether homework is necessary.

What exactly does this March stand for?

[GMDino]

(03-15-2018, 01:34 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: What this really is not a call for an agenda, it’s not an agenda driven march,  what it is about is a lot of photos of a lot of young people, standing around saying they hate gun violence so a bunch of leftist politicians can claim they are standing with the children and pushing for vast gun confiscation regimes.  The NYT basically admits this in heir editorial pages .  

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/opinion/students-walkout-gun-protest.html

They want the children to lead us.   Which is fine except I don’t see the times turning over their editorial board to teenagers.   I’m sure they will run plenty on whether homework is necessary.  

What exactly does this March stand for?

What the marches stood for has been explained.  You can choose to ignore that and continue to run with a paranoid theory.

If adults are being opportunistic and politicizing it go after them...not the students.

[fredtoast]

(03-15-2018, 01:34 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: What this really is not a call for an agenda, it’s not an agenda driven march,  what it is about is a lot of photos of a lot of young people, standing around saying they hate gun violence so a bunch of leftist politicians can claim they are standing with the children and pushing for vast gun confiscation regimes.  The NYT basically admits this in heir editorial pages .  

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/opinion/students-walkout-gun-protest.html

Is this supposed to be some kind of joke?


The article you linked says nothing like that.

[GMDino]

(03-15-2018, 01:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Is this supposed to be some kind of joke?


The article you linked says nothing like that.

Well, to be fair, he said "basically admits" which means it has words and he can think mean something whether they do or not. 

[StLucieBengal]

(03-15-2018, 01:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Is this supposed to be some kind of joke?


The article you linked says nothing like that.

Quote:Adults are supposed to take care of children — not only keep them safe, but make them feel safe. Schools are essentially an extension of the home, in that sense, providing sanctuaries of learning, of nurturing and care. But after years of attacks by people with weapons of war, students cannot feel safe and are demanding that adults end years of complaisance and act. They are not asking for their schools to become armed garrisons. Rather, they want those weapons to be brought under control.

Quote:And unlike too many adults, the young people leading Wednesday’s walkout at schools around the country — inspired by angry, motivated students from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, in Parkland, Fla., where 17 people were killed by a former student with an assault weapon — have had the courage to take on the industry responsible for blocking every reasonable measure to limit access to guns, including those that make it all too easy to commit mass murder.

Quote:“You adults have failed us by not creating a safer place for your children to go to school. So we, the next generation, will not fail our own kids. We will make this change happen. If not today, then tomorrow, and if not tomorrow, next year. Take it from us. You created a mess for us, but we will make this world safer for our children.”

With Wednesday’s demonstration, and their March for Our Lives movement on March 24 in Washington, young voices are being heard. How will the nation’s adults respond? Hopefully, by amplifying their demand: Never again.

The reality is this day and age is the safest time for children compared to any other time. No generation has been safer.

[*Nately120*]

(03-15-2018, 02:30 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The reality is this day and age is the safest time for children compared to any other time.  No generation has been safer.

And yet we need to have an insane budget for our jingoistic military, own a whole bunch of assault rifles, and build walls to keep dangerous people from overruning our country.  Who the hell are we as adults to get on kids for being paranoid?

[*michaelsean*]

(03-15-2018, 03:24 PM)Nately120 Wrote: And yet we need to have an insane budget for our jingoistic military, own a whole bunch of assault rifles, and build walls to keep dangerous people from overruning our country.  Who the hell are we as adults to get on kids for being paranoid?

The ones paying the bills.

[StLucieBengal]

The entire school safety is simple. Secure the schools the same way we secure every other government building.

[*PhilHos*]

(03-15-2018, 04:31 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The entire school safety is simple.  Secure the schools the same way we secure every other government building.

Make them non-smoking zones?