Nearly 30 dead as multiple mass shootings hit across the US

[Vas Deferens]

(08-05-2019, 05:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Wouldn't fly as your putting a cost on a constitutional right.  This would also unfairly punish poor gun owners.  Additionally, this information could be sued to deny a rental or home purchase.  Of course they wouldn't say that was the reason.

Hadn't thought of the 'cost on a constitutional right' argument.  Interesting.


Gun ownership would be tossed in with a litany of other factors going into rental applications or home purchases.  Gun ownership could be added to the list of reasons one could not be denied a rental along with race, religion, etc.  But even though people are not supposed to discriminate on the current list, its hard to argue.   If someone wants to rent a specific property enough, maybe they need to get rid of their uzi...  I don't know call me crazy. 

I'm racking my brain to think of other examples of 'cost on a constitutional right'...  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-05-2019, 06:05 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Hadn't thought of the 'cost on a constitutional right' argument.  Interesting.


Gun ownership would be tossed in with a litany of other factors going into rental applications or home purchases.  Gun ownership could be added to the list of reasons one could not be denied a rental along with race, religion, etc.  But even though people are not supposed to discriminate on the current list, its hard to argue.   If someone wants to rent a specific property enough, maybe they need to get rid of their uzi...  I don't know call me crazy. 

I'm racking my brain to think of other examples of 'cost on a constitutional right'...  

It's always the counter-argument to demands for voter ID laws, that you're putting a cost on a constitutional right and thus unfairly impacting the poor.  Hypocrisy is so common place it's basically the norm.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-05-2019, 01:45 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So Trump tells people that certain groups of people are dangerous and/or the enemy and then reminds people not to engage in violence because of the beliefs he just instilled in them?  

Where did he say ALL Latino's are dangerous?

[Mike M (the other one)]

Some of the gun control ideas are good, but violate rights and would take forever to implement.

Want to put an end to is now?
Setup a metal detector at every major mall entrance with a few security guards overseeing the flow. Kinda like at the airports now.

It's what's in the future. People want to feel safe and are willing to give up some rights for that feeling.

[*Nately120*]

(08-05-2019, 07:14 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Where did he say ALL Latino's are dangerous?

This is where the bar is set for the president?  He has to say that every single Latino is dangerous before we can ask him to tone down the "they're commin' to get ya" rhetoric?

Hey, like I said, Trump is our president and we deserve him.  I'll just brush this off and hope he doesn't start saying that not all members of any group to which I belong are dangerous.

[Belsnickel]

(08-05-2019, 05:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The problem is neither side trusts the other.  The GOP thinks that the Dems will use any results to push for tighter gun control.  Given that they have the ability to stop this course of action they are taking it.  I honestly don't know what such research would even find that would pass constitutional scrutiny.  I think the money would probably be better spent on analyzing the motivations of these shooters, understanding them and trying to prevent them with targeted mental health, or other, services.  Guns have been part of this nation since its founding, the mass shooting problem is a recent development.  Clearly guns didn't create the problem, they just allow the violence to be enacted.

But that is something that would be included in the studies. Right now, even something like that can't be studied because it would fall under the research surrounding gun violence. This also isn't just about mass shootings, it's about the suicides, gang violence, everything. The research could be used by the CDC/NIH to provide results, which the CRS could then use to provide some great insights to members of Congress and the public, as well.

[*bfine32*]

(08-05-2019, 06:05 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Hadn't thought of the 'cost on a constitutional right' argument.  Interesting.

(08-05-2019, 06:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's always the counter-argument to demands for voter ID laws, that you're putting a cost on a constitutional right and thus unfairly impacting the poor.  Hypocrisy is so common place it's basically the norm.

It is why I think every American not diagnosed with anger issues should be allowed to own a long rifle for home protection without restriction. The restrictions should come in the ability to transport it or upgrade it

[NATI BENGALS]

I had the pleasure of carrying a 240G in Afghanland. My MOS was 0331 so i got to shoot other fun stuff like the M2 and MK19. I dont own a gun. As far as Cincinnati suburbs go i am towards the top of the list when it comes to undesirable because of crime. Hasnt been a shooting on my street in about 2 years though. Im also getting fat and out of shape so my hand to hand combat isnt what it used to be.

I absolutely adored my side arm too. Beretta M9 (sp?).

Been wanting an M16 for the longest time. Been wanting a handgun for a long time too. Never bought one.

It would be pretty funny/tragically upsetting if we caved in and banned weapons when the closest thing to a tyrant leader since our nation was born is in the oval office.

[Vas Deferens]

(08-05-2019, 08:33 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: But that is something that would be included in the studies. Right now, even something like that can't be studied because it would fall under the research surrounding gun violence. This also isn't just about mass shootings, it's about the suicides, gang violence, everything. The research could be used by the CDC/NIH to provide results, which the CRS could then use to provide some great insights to members of Congress and the public, as well.

This is also a case against NOT executing this individual (el paso). The knowledge we can glean from someone who seems to be cooperating with authorities could be huge.

While I don’t think stymying research like this was daddy’s idea as he attempted to read and whistle his comments through his aderall fueled false teeth; I wouldn’t put that nefariousness past those that feed his malleable brain.

[Benton]

(08-05-2019, 07:21 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Some of the gun control ideas are good, but violate rights and would take forever to implement.

Want to put an end to is now?
Setup a metal detector at every major mall entrance with a few security guards overseeing the flow. Kinda like at the airports now.

It's what's in the future. People want to feel safe and are willing to give up some rights for that feeling.

Not likely to happen.

I've had two school shootings, one in my home town last year and one 20 miles away when I was a teen. The latter still doesn't use metal detectors and the other installed one, and they only screen guests.

Both do spotcheck with wands, but the whole thing is pretty much for show.

It's twofold. One, it's the attitude that 'if someone wants to do something bad, security doesn't matter much.' and for the most part, they're right. Extra guards, metal detectors, etc are about mitigating damage not preventing violence.

Two, and the reason malls, night clubs or wherever else won't do it, is the number of people. You expect to stand two hours in line at the airport or even a half hour at an amusement park. You aren't going to do that at the mall.

[jj22]

As Trump spends the morning blaming Obama. It's important to note for his supporters that Obamas' name never came up in any manifesto's like Trumps continuously does.

Any goodwill he gained by his verbal response is all going down the drain this morning with his true (non teleprompter) response.

[BmorePat87]

(08-06-2019, 09:15 AM)jj22 Wrote: As Trump spends the morning blaming Obama. It's important to note for his supporters that Obamas' name never came up in any manifesto's like Trumps continuously does.

Any goodwill he gained by his verbal response is all going down the drain this morning with his true (non teleprompter) response.

He made mention of 32 mass shootings when Obama was president. The number I found was 67 in 8 years.

Since Trump has been president there have been 51 in 2.5 years. 

I'm not placing this on any president, but what a stupid argument to make about the number under Obama. 

[BmorePat87]

(08-06-2019, 12:38 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: He made mention of 32 mass shootings when Obama was president. The number I found was 67 in 8 years.

Since Trump has been president there have been 51 in 2.5 years. 

I'm not placing this on any president, but what a stupid argument to make about the number under Obama. 

Apparently he meant 32 of 4 or more killed, but the closest I can find is that 42 were 5 or more killed...?

[*Nately120*]

(08-06-2019, 12:38 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: He made mention of 32 mass shootings when Obama was president. The number I found was 67 in 8 years.

Since Trump has been president there have been 51 in 2.5 years. 

I'm not placing this on any president, but what a stupid argument to make about the number under Obama. 

In all fairness, this is still more logical than when Sarah Palin cited Obama as a key reason her son beats his wife. Also, Trump tossing out the notion that the sitting president can influence mass-shootings in any manner should come off as a bit of a pandora's box, or glass house scenario at best.

[GMDino]

(08-06-2019, 01:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: In all fairness, this is still more logical than when Sarah Palin cited Obama as a key reason her son beats his wife.  Also, Trump tossing out the notion that the sitting president can influence mass-shootings in any manner should come off as a bit of a pandora's box, or glass house scenario at best.

All DJT cares about is it not be "his fault".  He has brand to sell!

[*Nately120*]

(08-06-2019, 01:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: All DJT cares about is it not be "his fault".  He has brand to sell!

Some powerful brand...the guy has been the president since 2016 and people are still doing stuff because of Obama?  Geez, Trump's like one of those step-fathers who lets his stepkids run wild because their real dad was a pushover.  We need a president who can step up and knock some discipline into this country.

Ugh, I shudder to think how many of our next presidents are going to throw their hands and say "Hey, remember when Trump was president?  Yeah...we're still feeling the effects of that move...not my fault.  That guy was the Jamarcus Russel of presidents, people.  We hain't getting out of this hole during my term, I can tell you THAT much!"

[jj22]

Trump just isn't good in these moments. His response yesterday deserved credit, but you just knew the other shoe was going to drop which is why you can never applaud Trump as his supporters find out. The next day he will do or say something that erases everything he said the day before (and what his supporters want you to applaud him for).

Kinda like when they all demanded us to applaud him for taking a stand against the "send her home chant".

Just for him to walk it all back the next day and deem the chant patriotic.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-05-2019, 07:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This is where the bar is set for the president?  He has to say that every single Latino is dangerous before we can ask him to tone down the "they're commin' to get ya" rhetoric?

Hey, like I said, Trump is our president and we deserve him.  I'll just brush this off and hope he doesn't start saying that not all members of any group to which I belong are dangerous.

No, you are the one claiming he said "all" and that's what the MSM pushes hardest, there is good and bad everywhere and it's not limited to politics, gender, religion, age or sexual preference, if you don't understand that, then it's on you.

There is a huge base out there that is against Illegal immigration, that doesn't mean we are racist in any way.
I've tried and tried to show how much money we loose annually, but everyone just ignores it or says it's based on some xx report that I had never heard of before. It's not hard at all to come up with some basic numbers and those numbers keep going up and up and up every year and many numbers are hidden in the system as well, such as benefit we give to children born here from illegal parents. Their assistance falls under USC assistance.

I tend to also believe that many people are fed up with the Gov putting illegal immigrants before USC's, such as giving tuition money when we have plenty of USC's that need help which is just adding fuel to the fire along with the Sanctuary Cities.

[jj22]

(08-06-2019, 01:27 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: No, you are the one claiming he said "all" and that's what the MSM pushes hardest, there is good and bad everywhere and it's not limited to politics, gender, religion, age or sexual preference, if you don't understand that, then it's on you.

There is a huge base out there that is against Illegal immigration, that doesn't mean we are racist in any way.
I've tried and tried to show how much money we loose annually, but everyone just ignores it or says it's based on some xx report that I had never heard of before. It's not hard at all to come up with some basic numbers and those numbers keep going up and up and up every year and many numbers are hidden in the system as well, such as benefit we give to children born here from illegal parents. Their assistance falls under USC assistance.

I tend to also believe that many people are fed up with the Gov putting illegal immigrants before USC's, such as giving tuition money when we have plenty of USC's that need help which is just adding fuel to the fire along with the Sanctuary Cities.

I disagree. You guys don't care about European illegal immigrants.

Just those of color.

Start talking about illegal immigration as a whole and more people will join in. They won't however as long as people keep picking on a certain group. That's never good, and people will always (thankfully) push back on the singling out of certain people while allowing others to get away with something.

That's where the racist attack comes from.

[*Nately120*]

(08-06-2019, 01:27 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: No, you are the one claiming he said "all" and that's what the MSM pushes hardest, there is good and bad everywhere and it's not limited to politics, gender, religion, age or sexual preference, if you don't understand that, then it's on you.

There is a huge base out there that is against Illegal immigration, that doesn't mean we are racist in any way.
I've tried and tried to show how much money we loose annually, but everyone just ignores it or says it's based on some xx report that I had never heard of before. It's not hard at all to come up with some basic numbers and those numbers keep going up and up and up every year and many numbers are hidden in the system as well, such as benefit we give to children born here from illegal parents. Their assistance falls under USC assistance.

I tend to also believe that many people are fed up with the Gov putting illegal immigrants before USC's, such as giving tuition money when we have plenty of USC's that need help which is just adding fuel to the fire along with the Sanctuary Cities.

I didn't claim Trump said "ALL." I don't think I did, at least...it isn't like me to put such as easily refutable statement of absolution into an argument, is it?  Like any good career criminal the guy is smart enough to know how to keep himself clean enough legally to be able to have a defense.  Plus, it's all a moot point after Bill O'Rilley specifically talked about Dr. George "Baby Killer" Tiller until someone killed that guy and then Bill could still legally claim he had clean hands (and hey, I agree...freedom and all that, you know?).

And people can be against illegal immigration, I just can't keep track of whether illegals are coming here because Americans are too entitled and lazy and unionized to work for fair wages or if they're coming here to rape/murder/bankrupt us.  Maybe if politicians could keep their story straight I'd have an easier time connecting what they are saying with real life.  I went from having to thank them for my cheap wal-mart produce to having to fear them and/or wait for them in the checkout line while they use their welfare cards.

That doesn't even take into account how much we've dropped the ball by letting up on the whole "they won't assimilate, they won't speak English, and they're dangerous" rhetoric when the Italians and Irish were flooding this place.