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(08-07-2019, 01:56 PM)hollodero Wrote: I guess the reason would be that these politically motivated shootings are just one instance of white supremacy and its dangers of many.
Also many totally dismiss the idea that white supremacy exists, which leads to a counterpoint and so on. When someone on FOX calls white supremacy a hoax, then the debate of course gets heated, not shut down.
I don't know of anyone who completely dismisses the concept of white supremacists. Of course it exists as there are people of every race with those feeling and beliefs about their own ethnicity/race. Maybe they're disagreeing with the threat as perceived by others?
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(08-07-2019, 04:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think the far right brand of terrorism is what is most often discussed. Although they often have white supremacist leanings they are not inextricably linked. One can be rabidly anti-government and have no racist component to their radicalization. Do we know this hasn't been given the attention it deserves or is this speculation? It seems to me that Federal law enforcement has stopped several far right terror plots of late so they obviously aren't ignoring it.
That was my speculation, though there is some evidence of that being the case: https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-08-05/trump-officials-have-redirected-resources-from-countering-far-right-racism-fueled-domestic-terrorism
I also heard a discussion with a former member of the NSC who was there during the first year of the administration and he discussed the difficulty and reluctance of the administration to focus on the issue.
(08-07-2019, 04:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I know you aren't making this claim, but this statement is so insanely inflammatory (and highly unlikely IMO) that I'm going to need a source or I'm calling complete BS.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-faces-skepticism-over-its-anti-domestic-terror-efforts/2019/08/04/c9c928bc-b6e0-11e9-b3b4-2bb69e8c4e39_story.html
Quote:Some veteran counterterrorism experts said the FBI and the federal government have done too little, despite concerns that have been building for more than a decade.
Dave Gomez, a former FBI supervisor who oversaw terrorism cases, said he thinks FBI officials are wary of pursuing white nationalists aggressively because of the fierce political debates surrounding the issue.
“I believe Christopher A. Wray is an honorable man, but I think in many ways the FBI is hamstrung in trying to investigate the white supremacist movement like the old FBI would,” Gomez said. “There’s some reluctance among agents to bring forth an investigation that targets what the president perceives as his base. It’s a no-win situation for the FBI agent or supervisor.”
Gomez said that reluctance stems in large part from the public criticism President Trump has launched against the FBI over the course of the bureau’s investigation into Russian election interference and the president’s conduct.
(08-07-2019, 04:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think it's some of that. It's also a way to indirectly, and directly, attack Trump and influence public opinion going into 2020.
Oh, absolutely. Of course, when his own administration is who is saying that it is the greatest domestic terrorism threat ( though the statement was later clarified, I just discovered) it's going to be a big part of the news, as well.
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(08-06-2019, 12:38 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: He made mention of 32 mass shootings when Obama was president. The number I found was 67 in 8 years.
Since Trump has been president there have been 51 in 2.5 years.
I'm not placing this on any president, but what a stupid argument to make about the number under Obama.
(08-06-2019, 12:45 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Apparently he meant 32 of 4 or more killed, but the closest I can find is that 42 were 5 or more killed...?
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-cb-mass-shootings-language-definition-gun-violence-20190805-dv2g5lcumbeq3gji4dnycx7j74-story.html
Every group has their own definition of "mass shooting" and criteria in order to qualify as such. People pick and choose which group's numbers to used based off of what message they are trying to send.
Some used people shot, some used people killed, some don't include the shooter as a person killed in order to qualify, some don't include gang violence, some don't include shootings in a domestic setting.
The article makes a crazy point of the two extremes. One group has it listed as 225 mass shootings so far in 2019, another has that number at 7.
So it's basically a pointless task to bother discussing numbers as everyone will be using different sources that give different results.
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(08-07-2019, 04:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-cb-mass-shootings-language-definition-gun-violence-20190805-dv2g5lcumbeq3gji4dnycx7j74-story.html
Every group has their own definition of "mass shooting" and criteria in order to qualify as such. People pick and choose which group's numbers to used based off of what message they are trying to send.
Some used people shot, some used people killed, some don't include the shooter as a person killed in order to qualify, some don't include gang violence, some don't include shootings in a domestic setting.
The article makes a crazy point of the two extremes. One group has it listed as 225 mass shootings so far in 2019, another has that number at 7.
So it's basically a pointless task to bother discussing numbers as everyone will be using different sources that give different results.
The criteria most often used, because it severely inflates the numbers, is a shooting in which four or more people are injured or killed. Of course, this criteria doesn't distinguish between how the injuries occurred, so if I'm running from a shooting and fall and break my ankle, that counts. Ironically, this criteria is a bit of a narrative killer as under it a significant majority of such shootings are committed by black men.
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(08-07-2019, 04:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That was my speculation, though there is some evidence of that being the case: https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2019-08-05/trump-officials-have-redirected-resources-from-countering-far-right-racism-fueled-domestic-terrorism
I also heard a discussion with a former member of the NSC who was there during the first year of the administration and he discussed the difficulty and reluctance of the administration to focus on the issue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/fbi-faces-skepticism-over-its-anti-domestic-terror-efforts/2019/08/04/c9c928bc-b6e0-11e9-b3b4-2bb69e8c4e39_story.html
Thank you for the sources, very disconcerting.
Quote:Oh, absolutely. Of course, when his own administration is who is saying that it is the greatest domestic terrorism threat (though the statement was later clarified, I just discovered) it's going to be a big part of the news, as well.
Agreed.
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I meant to post this the day it was published, but it slipped my mind. Good read and a bit of perspective.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49227590
I realize this is zero comfort to those affected and I am not mitigating it in any way, but within the last ten years the highest number of people killed by extremists of any stripe was just under 75, in 2016. The analysis shows that around 78% of extremist killings are committed by white supremacists. So, at it's absolute worse, white supremacists killed 58 people in one year. This is bad, it should not be ignored, but it's nothing remotely like the threat that it's being purported to be in the media right now.
BTW the same year as above, 2016, there were 43 fatal dog attacks.
https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2016.php
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(08-06-2019, 03:24 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I believe I know the ridiculous answer to this, but just for shits and giggles... Where? What mall have you been to with security check points at every entrance?
....
Then what's my answer?
I've said it on here before, it's not a big secret.
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It is strange hearing people with blatant narcissistic personality disorder blaming shooting sprees on people with mental illness.
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(08-07-2019, 06:37 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: It is strange hearing people with blatant narcissistic personality disorder blaming shooting sprees on people with mental illness.
He is a lunatic.
Seriously. There is something mentally wrong with the man.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/08/07/trumps-ohio-visit-dayton-mayor-nan-whaley-confused-president-tweets/1946291001/
Quote:'Oh well': Dayton mayor confused by Trump's criticism of how she described his visit
WASHINGTON – Hours after visiting with victims and first responders from the mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio, the White House said President Donald Trump was treated like a "rock star" and criticized several Ohio lawmakers for "mischaracterizing" the visit.
Dan Scavino, White House director of social media and assistant to the president, in several posts on Twitter criticized what he says were mischaracterizations" of Trump's visit to Miami Valley Hospital in Dayton. Reporters were held in a holding room during Trump's visit.
"Very SAD to see Ohio Senator Brown, & Dayton Mayor Nan Whaley - LYING & completely mischaracterizing what took place w/ the President’s visit to Miami Valley Hospital today," Scavino wrote in a tweet. "They are disgraceful politicians, doing nothing but politicizing a mass shooting, at every turn they can."
"The President was treated like a Rock Star inside the hospital, which was all caught on video," he continued. "They all loved seeing their great President!"
Dayton mayor on Trump: 'I think he heard me, but I don’t know if he’ll take action.'
Trump in his own tweet also criticized Brown and Whaley, saying that they are "misrepresenting what took place inside of the hospital."
"Just left Dayton, Ohio, where I met with the Victims & families, Law Enforcement, Medical Staff & First Responders. It was a warm & wonderful visit. Tremendous enthusiasm & even Love," Trump wrote on Twitter.
"Their news conference after I left for El Paso was a fraud," Trump continued on the two lawmakers. "It bore no resemblance to what took place with those incredible people that I was so lucky to meet and spend time with. They were all amazing!"
The Cincinnati Enquirer, a member of the USA TODAY Network, was with Whaley when she found out about the tweets from an aide as she sat in a booth in a local restaurant talking to reporters, with a cup of coffee and soda in front of her to give her an energy boost.
“Where is it, I don’t see it,” Whaley said looking at her phone. “I’m confused. We said he was treated very well. I don’t know what he’s talking about misrepresenting.”
"Oh well. He lives in his world of Twitter," she added.
Dayton mayor reacts to Trump's tweet about her, Sen. Brown calling their news conference "a fraud."Meg Vogel, Cincinnati
In a follow-up Tweet, Scavino tweeted photos from the president's visit, adding: "Some extremely powerful moments throughout the entire visit, with so much enthusiasm and love, contrary to what the Trump Hating Dems would ever share or say."
However, the White House's characterization seems to be at odds with what Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, and Whaley said of Trump's visit. Both politicians accompanied Trump on his visit.
Quote:![[Image: kUuht00m_normal.jpg]](https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/874276197357596672/kUuht00m_normal.jpg)
[/url]Donald J. Trump
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We love you Dayton, Ohio!
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During a press conference after Trump's visit to the hospital, the two officials said that they believe the victims and first responders appreciated the president's visit.
"He was received well by the patients as you'd expect," Brown said. "They're hurting. He was comforting and he did the right things. Melania did the right things. It's his job in part to comfort people."
"I'm glad he did it in those hospital rooms," Brown continued.
More: Protests, no-shows, and the Baby Trump balloon greet the president in two grief-stricken cities
"I think the victims and the first responders were grateful that the President of the United States came to Dayton," Whaley said.
Brown also discussed his own meeting with Trump, saying that he called on Trump to ask Republicans to open a special session in the Senate so the chamber could vote on a gun background check bill that the House of Representatives passed earlier this year.
"He only said 'we will get things done,'" Brown said. He added that he also called on Trump to not repeal the Affordable Care Act if the president cares about mental health. Throughout his tenure, Trump has tried to repeal the ACA.
Brown also said that during Trump's visit with first responders, the president offered to give the police officers awards. Police responded to the shooter in less than 30 seconds. Nine people were killed and several others were injured.
However, Brown said he responded with: 'Mr. President, respectfully ... the most important thing you can do for these police officers is take assault weapons off the street so they don't have to go up against those assault weapons."
Quote:![[Image: 50k-Wecg_normal.png]](https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/879434759365156872/50k-Wecg_normal.png)
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“I think it was a good decision for him not to stop in the Oregon District,” Mayor @nanwhaley says about Pres. Trump not visiting the site of the mass shooting.
“A lot of the time his talk can be very divisive, and that’s the last thing we need in Dayton.” https://cnn.it/2ZGchgN
![[Image: TrsGhooi7zEnD4jL?format=jpg&name=small]](https://pbs.twimg.com/amplify_video_thumb/1159168489258721280/img/TrsGhooi7zEnD4jL?format=jpg&name=small)
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Whaley said that during a "pretty brief" meeting with Trump, she told him that "the people of Dayton are waiting for action from Washington, D.C."
She also noted that she was grateful that the president did not go to the Oregon District of Dayton, where the shooting took place. Whaley ahead of Trump's visit said that the president's "rhetoric has been painful for many in our community."
"A lot of the time his talk can be very divisive, and that’s the last thing we need in Dayton," Whaley said Wednesday afternoon following the hospital visit.
Ignore the fact that the media was told they could not follow the President because it "wasn't a photo-op" and then Trump's people tweeted out a bunch of photos (then used by his campaign). He didn't get the praise he thought he should get so he just lied about everything.
What a pitiful little "man".
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Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
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Like I've said...he has no empathy. Today was just for marketing purposes.
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(08-07-2019, 08:28 PM)GMDino Wrote:
Looks like the Florida guy’s van. Is hoarding of campaign signs/stickers/flags a thing?
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(08-07-2019, 11:01 PM)GMDino Wrote:
We're asked to take his lip service as sincere, as he delivers it with little to no emotion or energy, and asked to ignore the way he passionately and loudly laughs and smiles as people call for immigrants to be shot.
We're asked to trust him, but he repeats lies and falsehoods.
We're asked to believe that he has our nation's security and values as a priority as he defends a dictator shooting off rockets and continues to claim that another is not currently seeking to hinder our election.
When he says something plainly, we're told to not take it at face value because he didn't mean it (even when he says he does).
When he speaks rhetorically, we're told to not read into it and take it at face value because he couldn't have been implying what he implied.
He calls for something and we're asked why we are not praising him for it, even when he contradicts his calls hours later.
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Trump spent the visits playing victim, attacking his "enemy's", Dems, the Media and pretty much forgot about those murdered and his purpose there.
The pushback he received from people shows Americans are growing tired of this act.
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To switch gears a moment, I've been watching a series on ID called Evil Lives Here. It's usually family members of someone not quite infamous although you would recognize a few, and they talk about the person's life leading up to whatever event they are known for. In most of these cases, the parents do everything in their power, but get very little help. They beg for help from psychiatrists and from the government. No parent is equipped to raise a psychotic. Some day if the histories of these two people are revealed, there's a good chance we will find a parent who tried to get help years ago. Like when they were eight or younger.
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(08-07-2019, 04:11 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't know of anyone who completely dismisses the concept of white supremacists.
Well, Tucker apparently does.... he called it a hoax and a conspiracy theory.
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Well Tucker is also a holocaust denier and believed slavery wasn't all that bad which is why blacks fought for the confederate (ignoring they were promised freedom if they did and that it later came out that they were never going to be freed if the South won).
Tucker, unfortunately, is very popular with Conservatives and Trump supporters. So you already know many of Americans agree with him.
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(08-07-2019, 06:08 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Then what's my answer?
I've said it on here before, it's not a big secret.
I'm not the one who claimed to have visited a mall with metal detectors as if it's somehow germane.
That's fine. Continue sitting on your super secret mall intelligence.
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