(05-24-2018, 07:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Honestly, if they stop playing it at sporting events, I wouldn't care.
If they do play it, I'd prefer everyone (especially players) stand and not make a spectacle/mockery of it.
Regardless of their intent, it doesn't change the effect.
I wouldn't care either. However, a lot if people would. It's a tradition in sports. This is kinda what has made this country go to shit as some of us older folks believe. Tradition is a good thing, and this really has nothing to do with changing for the better. It's about getting your limelight. It's disgusting tbh. We are to PC anymore and people are not aloud to enjoy their freedoms and their beliefs without ridicule.
Some may say, "Hey, I have a right to do this!" But then in the next breath chastize me for saying I will pray for someone and make a mockery out of a simple freedom I have to believe in God? What? It's why I say, "It's not all about you!" Let people be people but be respectful. That's the true definition of freedom isnt it? Be respectful to one another? Help each other out (well, actually, helping is a value and people are free to shit on anyone they want)!
We have too many soapboxes with selfish people standing on them. Geez, even Rodney King said, "Can't we all just get along?"
Rodney Dangerfield would roll over in his grave had he known he was talking about America the entire time. LOL.
(05-23-2018, 02:54 PM)Griever Wrote: forced patriotism isnt real patriotism
No, it's not. But just like a house you don't like or a radio station in which you hate the music what do you do? People should do that right? If they cant afford it or are too lazy to change the station? Work hard so you can change your dream or appreciate the music?
(05-24-2018, 07:34 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Honestly, if they stop playing it at sporting events, I wouldn't care.
If they do play it, I'd prefer everyone (especially players) stand and not make a spectacle/mockery of it.
Regardless of their intent, it doesn't change the effect.
Imagine if all other entertainment venues like at the movies played the anthem before hand. I hear people say if it wasnt for the those that served we couldnt enjoy this. My response is then basically that is everything we do enjoy from a hike in a national park or sitting in a theater or going down to the banks for some drinks, etc etc etc etc. So why dont we hear the anthem before seeing a movie at the theater? "Everyone please turn off your phones, set your popcorn down, and rise for the National Anthem." Then its time for Deadpool 2 to start.
Im still skeptical players choosing to stay in the locker room rather than stand for the anthem is going to be kosher in the eyes of the critics, but we shall see.
(05-24-2018, 07:58 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Imagine if all other entertainment venues like at the movies played the anthem before hand. I hear people say if it wasnt for the those that served we couldnt enjoy this. My response is then basically that is everything we do enjoy from a hike in a national park or sitting in a theater or going down to the banks for some drinks, etc etc etc etc. So why dont we hear the anthem before seeing a movie at the theater? "Everyone please turn off your phones, set your popcorn down, and rise for the National Anthem." Then its time for Deadpool 2 to start.
You're taking it to an extreme though. Sporting events are broadcast live to an audience of millions. So I get why the Anthem is played. Plus sports are something that unites us. A time where we forget our differences and cheer together. Sound familiar? The Anthem and sporting events just go together like a burger with fries.
I'm not trying to attack you at all, Millz, but you seem irritated by the Anthem itself (if I'm wrong, apologies). It's not like it's crammed down our throats everywhere, all the time. If not for sporting events, I'd never hear it. So why get mad? Use it as a time to appreciate and be thankful for what we have. Who cares if it's "forced Patriotism"? Is being proud of what and who we are a bad thing?
I think a big problem in this country right now is people overthink shit. Patriotism is good. Other countries are proud of themselves as well. Should I be disgusted to be an American? I don't think so. I think we have a lot to be proud of and thankful for. I also don't think it's too much to ask for people to stand in silence for 2 minutes before sporting events and think about that.
Be thankful for your brothers, be thankful for your family, freedoms and those who gave the ultimate sacrifice. Instead we're worrying about who paid to have the Anthem played? Or if it's silly to play at a football game? Smh...
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(05-24-2018, 08:08 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Im still skeptical players choosing to stay in the locker room rather than stand for the anthem is going to be kosher in the eyes of the critics, but we shall see.
I think the media will highlight who stayed in the locker room. Heck they may even put camera's in there.
The media is thriving on division right now. It's sad.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
The main thing to me is that things like the overuse of the anthem at sporting events crosses the line from patriotism into nationalism, at least to me. I get that jingoistic Americanism is the thing these days, but I'm not a fan. Instead of making me more proud in the country it makes me embarrassed for us.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(05-24-2018, 08:42 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The main thing to me is that things like the overuse of the anthem at sporting events crosses the line from patriotism into nationalism, at least to me. I get that jingoistic Americanism is the thing these days, but I'm not a fan. Instead of making me more proud in the country it makes me embarrassed for us.
But why? Holy BeJesus? It's 2 minutes? I'm supposed to hear angry rhetoric all day long but I can't get 2 minutes of a song and flag? I can't watch a tv show without stuff being shoved down my throat and the same for the news? So why is 2 minutes of freedom such a bad thing? Is it because in that 2 minutes I refuse to be bothered by noise and be proud of the flag that is waiving and the sacrifices many gave to defend it? There are thousands upon thousands of people, who are not white, that laid their life down for that flag and the same anthem gave them hope.
We shouldn't have removed the pledge of allegiance in schools. Our politicians are whores now and not representatives to have let things go this far. This is why many think think like they do? Would you pick up a weapon and defend this country? Or would you do it on an X-Box? Seriously, that's not a personal attack, but reality and suffering is not known by most in this country like it was during our parents and grandparents age. War, famine, standing in line for hours for bread. That shit really happened. So to have an overpaid athlete who has done nothing kneel and act like he is the people? It's sad. He speaks for limelight and self service.
Many blacks, whites, mexicans, and even muslims died for that very flag and anthem some protest. They don't have a clue. However, since it's television, the youth follow for some reason and we have what we have today. Total disrespect. With the way this country is going, there will be no one to defend it in many years to come. Lay down your weapons and see what happens. we will be back to slavery, but as a country. There will be no damn free ride like some enjoy. There will be no disability. If your legs are broken, you will do what your told or die from hunger. Nobody will do things to save others and they wont get a check in the mail each week for sitting on their bums. There will be no education except that which is required to survive that people learn themselves. Goodness, what a selfish, self serving entitled society in which we live. And it's these people who are trying to change the world.
(05-24-2018, 09:20 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: But why? Holy BeJesus? It's 2 minutes? I'm supposed to hear angry rhetoric all day long but I can't get 2 minutes of a song and flag? I can't watch a tv show without stuff being shoved down my throat and the same for the news? So why is 2 minutes of freedom such a bad thing? Is it because in that 2 minutes I refuse to be bothered by noise and be proud of the flag that is waiving and the sacrifices many gave to defend it? There are thousands upon thousands of people, who are not white, that laid their life down for that flag and the same anthem gave them hope.
We shouldn't have removed the pledge of allegiance in schools. Our politicians are whores now and not representatives to have let things go this far. This is why many think think like they do? Would you pick up a weapon and defend this country? Or would you do it on an X-Box? Seriously, that's not a personal attack, but reality and suffering is not known by most in this country like it was during our parents and grandparents age. War, famine, standing in line for hours for bread. That shit really happened. So to have an overpaid athlete who has done nothing kneel and act like he is the people? It's sad. He speaks for limelight and self service.
Many blacks, whites, mexicans, and even muslims died for that very flag and anthem some protest. They don't have a clue. However, since it's television, the youth follow for some reason and we have what we have today. Total disrespect. With the way this country is going, there will be no one to defend it in many years to come. Lay down your weapons and see what happens. we will be back to slavery, but as a country. There will be no damn free ride like some enjoy. There will be no disability. If your legs are broken, you will do what your told or die from hunger. Nobody will do things to save others and they wont get a check in the mail each week for sitting on their bums. There will be no education except that which is required to survive that people learn themselves. Goodness, what a selfish, self serving entitled society in which we live. And it's these people who are trying to change the world.
(05-24-2018, 09:20 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: But why? Holy BeJesus? It's 2 minutes? I'm supposed to hear angry rhetoric all day long but I can't get 2 minutes of a song and flag? I can't watch a tv show without stuff being shoved down my throat and the same for the news? So why is 2 minutes of freedom such a bad thing? Is it because in that 2 minutes I refuse to be bothered by noise and be proud of the flag that is waiving and the sacrifices many gave to defend it? There are thousands upon thousands of people, who are not white, that laid their life down for that flag and the same anthem gave them hope.
We shouldn't have removed the pledge of allegiance in schools. Our politicians are whores now and not representatives to have let things go this far. This is why many think think like they do? Would you pick up a weapon and defend this country? Or would you do it on an X-Box? Seriously, that's not a personal attack, but reality and suffering is not known by most in this country like it was during our parents and grandparents age. War, famine, standing in line for hours for bread. That shit really happened. So to have an overpaid athlete who has done nothing kneel and act like he is the people? It's sad. He speaks for limelight and self service.
Many blacks, whites, mexicans, and even muslims died for that very flag and anthem some protest. They don't have a clue. However, since it's television, the youth follow for some reason and we have what we have today. Total disrespect. With the way this country is going, there will be no one to defend it in many years to come. Lay down your weapons and see what happens. we will be back to slavery, but as a country. There will be no damn free ride like some enjoy. There will be no disability. If your legs are broken, you will do what your told or die from hunger. Nobody will do things to save others and they wont get a check in the mail each week for sitting on their bums. There will be no education except that which is required to survive that people learn themselves. Goodness, what a selfish, self serving entitled society in which we live. And it's these people who are trying to change the world.
SMH.
You seem to think the ideas I am presenting, or those of the athletes that have protested during the anthem, are that there is a dismissal of the sacrifice of others or even a dislike of the country. What is really being said is that we want it to be better. We see there are problems and hiding behind jingoism doesn't make that go away.
We can discuss the socioeconomic issues all day long if you like. I know quite a bit about them, more than most people because policies that work to affect change in those areas are what I like to research. It's not as rosy a picture as you like to put it and people have very real reasons to feel this way. Our politicians are whores and aren't representative of us. They run on populist messages and then turn their back on the people when they pass policies. And I'm not just talking about Trump.
But in the end, you ask "why is 2 minutes of freedom such a bad thing?" If it's forced patriotism, if you are making people stand or do whatever for it, then that isn't freedom. That's tyrannical. Freedom is having the ability to protest, or just to sit there playing on your smart phone. That's your choice, that's your freedom.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(05-24-2018, 08:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You're taking it to an extreme though. Sporting events are broadcast live to an audience of millions. So I get why the Anthem is played. Plus sports are something that unites us. A time where we forget our differences and cheer together. Sound familiar? The Anthem and sporting events just go together like a burger with fries.
I'm not trying to attack you at all, Millz, but you seem irritated by the Anthem itself (if I'm wrong, apologies). It's not like it's crammed down our throats everywhere, all the time. If not for sporting events, I'd never hear it. So why get mad? Use it as a time to appreciate and be thankful for what we have. Who cares if it's "forced Patriotism"? Is being proud of what and who we are a bad thing?
I think a big problem in this country right now is people overthink shit. Patriotism is good. Other countries are proud of themselves as well. Should I be disgusted to be an American? I don't think so. I think we have a lot to be proud of and thankful for. I also don't think it's too much to ask for people to stand in silence for 2 minutes before sporting events and think about that.
Be thankful for your brothers, be thankful for your family, freedoms and those who gave the ultimate sacrifice. Instead we're worrying about who paid to have the Anthem played? Or if it's silly to play at a football game? Smh...
Im not irritated at all by the anthem, as a matter of fact I love it and all renditions, even Leslie Nielsons in Naked Gun. I also love the flag, and our country, even what it has become since WW2 ended. And because of that love for the anthem is why I am saying what I am saying. Hearing it just a handful of times throughout the year would give it more meaning during holidays like this upcoming weekend, 4th of July, Veterans Day, etc., and also during other times like war or after events like 911 for example. Also could be sung at championship games like Super Bowl or World Series. It's like hearing a favorite Christmas tune year round, but then come Christmas Eve night it has ran its course, so to speak.
(05-24-2018, 09:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You seem to think the ideas I am presenting, or those of the athletes that have protested during the anthem, are that there is a dismissal of the sacrifice of others or even a dislike of the country. What is really being said is that we want it to be better. We see there are problems and hiding behind jingoism doesn't make that go away.
We can discuss the socioeconomic issues all day long if you like. I know quite a bit about them, more than most people because policies that work to affect change in those areas are what I like to research. It's not as rosy a picture as you like to put it and people have very real reasons to feel this way. Our politicians are whores and aren't representative of us. They run on populist messages and then turn their back on the people when they pass policies. And I'm not just talking about Trump.
But in the end, you ask "why is 2 minutes of freedom such a bad thing?" If it's forced patriotism, if you are making people stand or do whatever for it, then that isn't freedom. That's tyrannical. Freedom is having the ability to protest, or just to sit there playing on your smart phone. That's your choice, that's your freedom.
Who has ever forced you to stand for the National Anthem?
(05-24-2018, 10:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Who has ever forced you to stand for the National Anthem?
The social ostracizing one can experience not standing is a form of implied force that causes many people to stand, myself included.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(05-24-2018, 10:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The social ostracizing one can experience not standing is a form of implied force that causes many people to stand, myself included.
(05-24-2018, 10:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not sure you answered the question.
I did.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
Ill never understand why people don't get this fired up when the actual land water and air that comprise this great country are raped and razed by the powers that be.
Many aspects of social norms are lost on me, ill admit. Stand for the flag and get your PATRIOT check box checked. Ehh I'm a miserable cynic. Go USA.
(05-24-2018, 10:10 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You did, but peer pressure and being forced are not the same thing.
Depends on your definition of force. From my point of view, rooted in the social sciences, it absolutely is a form of force.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
(05-24-2018, 10:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well then, I'll take your answer as no one.
Then you are either purposefully ignoring my answer or you didn't understand it.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR
"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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