Newt wants to deport Americans who practice Islam

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 12:29 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Another person confusing being Muslim with Sharia Law.

I am not confusing anything. I don't think a Muslim should be deported for believing in the Sharia laws regarding diet, hygiene, prayer, and marriage.

Why should they. None of that is a threat to us.

Or are you saying that Muslims who follow these practices are not following Sharia Law? What exactly is your point?

(07-19-2016, 12:31 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: No, if you download a song illegally you're not following the law, right?

But it does not mean that I reject the authority of all the laws of the United States.

It is possible for a Muslim to follow many aspects of Sharia Law without being a threat to anyone.

[*bfine32*]

(07-19-2016, 12:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not confusing anything.  I don't think a Muslim should be deported for believing in the Sharia laws regarding diet, hygiene, prayer, and marriage.

Why should they.  None of that is a threat to us.

Yes you are confused, To start with where the hell did I say anyone should be deported? I just disagree with the notion that a Muslim that proclaims to adhere to follow Sharia can pick and chose which laws they believe in. They can differ on their interpretation and punishment for not following certain aspects. Not all Muslims follow adhere to Sharia Law and its punishments, just as all Christian do not adhere to the Law and punishment of Moses. 

It absolutely amazes me how much Liberals accept the beliefs of Muslims that follow Sharia; yet curse the Christian.   

[fredtoast]

(07-18-2016, 11:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure, Muslim countries decide the punishment they wish to impose on violations of Sharia, not sure if that's the same of picking and choosing the parts you want to follow. Sharia can be interpreted but not altered.  But I'll take your word for it; as you have seen it first hand.

You mean you will take his word for it because he is correct? Seeing something first hand obviously does not mean you understand it at all. You have proved that many times.


Here is a comment from some people who actually know what they are talking about

https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/20694/Sharia%20and%20national%20Law%20in%20Muslim%20countries.pdf?sequence=1


The’ Sharia or ‘Their’ Sharias?

Sharia is generally defined as God’s eternal and immutable will for
humanity. This ideal Islamic law is expressed in the Quran and Mohammed’s
example (sunna) and developed by jurisprudence (fiqh).
However, numerous interpretations of sharia can be found in laws,
scholarly literature, the media and in popular perceptions. In that respect,
there are many sharias. In Tunisia, polygamy was formally abolished
in 1956, allegedly referring to sharia, in Indonesia polygamy is
limited and controlled by state ‘religious courts’ taking sharia into account,
while in Egypt, women’s rights to obtain a divorce have recently
been expanded with reference to sharia. Throughout history and
throughout the Muslim world, sharia has been shaped and reshaped,
influenced by local customs, reconstructed by colonial law, and more
recently by national legislatures, administrators, courts and international
treaties. This process is highly political. The involved political actors
in Muslim countries are characteristically spread over an ideological-religious
spectrum ranging from secularists and moderate modernists,
to traditional conservatives and orthodox puritans, and
ultimately, to radical and revolutionary Islamists. Due to the extraordinary
variety of views on sharia within Muslim countries, the ‘rules in
use’ of sharia differ greatly between these groups. When people refer
to the sharia, they are, in fact, referring to their sharia in the name of
the eternal will of the Almighty God.

[*bfine32*]

(07-19-2016, 12:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean you will take his word for it because he is correct?  Seeing something first hand obviously does not mean you understand it at all.  You have proved that many times.


Here is a comment from some people who actually know what they are talking about

https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstream/handle/1887/20694/Sharia%20and%20national%20Law%20in%20Muslim%20countries.pdf?sequence=1


The’ Sharia or ‘Their’ Sharias?

Sharia is generally defined as God’s eternal and immutable will for
humanity. This ideal Islamic law is expressed in the Quran and Mohammed’s
example (sunna) and developed by jurisprudence (fiqh).
However, numerous interpretations of sharia can be found in laws,
scholarly literature, the media and in popular perceptions. In that respect,
there are many sharias. In Tunisia, polygamy was formally abolished
in 1956, allegedly referring to sharia, in Indonesia polygamy is
limited and controlled by state ‘religious courts’ taking sharia into account,
while in Egypt, women’s rights to obtain a divorce have recently
been expanded with reference to sharia. Throughout history and
throughout the Muslim world, sharia has been shaped and reshaped,
influenced by local customs, reconstructed by colonial law, and more
recently by national legislatures, administrators, courts and international
treaties. This process is highly political. The involved political actors
in Muslim countries are characteristically spread over an ideological-religious
spectrum ranging from secularists and moderate modernists,
to traditional conservatives and orthodox puritans, and
ultimately, to radical and revolutionary Islamists. Due to the extraordinary
variety of views on sharia within Muslim countries, the ‘rules in
use’ of sharia differ greatly between these groups. When people refer
to the sharia, they are, in fact, referring to their sharia in the name of
the eternal will of the Almighty God.

It's almost like I said from jump they can vary on the interpretation, but outstanding use of the the bold font. 

But hey, you read something from one source, so have at it. Because me and Pat have first hand knowledge. 

[Brownshoe]

(07-19-2016, 12:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not confusing anything.  I don't think a Muslim should be deported for believing in the Sharia laws regarding diet, hygiene, prayer, and marriage.

Why should they.  None of that is a threat to us.

Or are you saying that Muslims who follow these practices are not following Sharia Law?  What exactly is your point?


But it does not mean that I reject the authority of all the laws of the United States.

It is possible for a Muslim to follow many aspects of Sharia Law without being a threat to anyone.

A Muslim who doesn't follow Sharia law doesn't follow Sharia law. Sharia law includes murdering someone for insulting their ideology. If you don't do that, or any other part of Sharia law then you are breaking Sharia law, meaning you're not following it.

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 12:52 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes you are confused, To start with where the hell did I say anyone should be deported? I just disagree with the notion that a Muslim that proclaims to adhere to follow Sharia can pick and chose which laws they believe in. They can differ on their interpretation and punishment for not following certain aspects. Not all Muslims follow adhere to Sharia Law and its punishments, just as all Christian do not adhere to the Law and punishment of Moses. 

It absolutely amazes me how much Liberals accept the beliefs of Muslims that follow Sharia; yet curse the Christian.   

Oh boy, the poor Christian victim card again.

It absolutely amazes me how many Conservatives are so stupid that they think Liberals support the parts of Sharia Law that promote discrimination and sexism. Or that Liberals oppose the Christian principles of charity and good works. Even the Conservatives who never venture from the echo chamber should be smart enough to figure that out. But, sadly, the only way they get to play their victim cards is to remain willfully ignorant of reality.

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 12:58 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: A Muslim who doesn't follow Sharia law doesn't follow Sharia law. Sharia law includes murdering someone for insulting their ideology. If you don't do that, or any other part of Sharia law then you are breaking Sharia law, meaning you're not following it.

But at the same time they can follow other parts of Sharia Law. And this means they DO follow Sharia law.

Why does something this simple go over your head. Why should Newt want to deport Muslims who follow the Sharia law in areas of marriage, diet, etc?

Does the fact that I download a song illegally mean that I am a threat to murder someone because I "Don't follow the law?"

[*bfine32*]

(07-19-2016, 01:00 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Oh boy, the poor Christian victim card again.

It absolutely amazes me how many Conservatives are so stupid that they think Liberals support the parts of Sharia Law that promote discrimination and sexism.  Or that Liberals oppose the Christian principles of charity and good works.  Even the Conservatives who never venture from the echo chamber should be smart enough to figure that out.  But, sadly, the only way they get to play their victim cards is to remain willfully ignorant of reality.

You know when Fred has conceded defeat: when he starts calling folks stupid. I think it worked for him on the playground in 2nd grade and he's always just kind of rolled with it. 

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 12:57 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Because me and Pat have first hand knowledge. 

I have been in a hospital before.

Does that mean I understand how to do surgery?

[*bfine32*]

(07-19-2016, 01:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I have been in a hospital before.

Does that mean I understand how to do surgery?

Nope, it just means your experience has taught you how to go to a hospital. Was there a point?

[fredtoast]

(07-18-2016, 11:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll await feedback from your Muslim friends that follow Sharia and can pick and choose what parts they adhere to.  

Here you go.

(07-19-2016, 12:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In Tunisia, polygamy was formally abolished in 1956, allegedly referring to sharia, in Indonesia polygamy is
limited and controlled by state ‘religious courts’ taking sharia into account,


Due to the extraordinary variety of views on sharia within Muslim countries, the ‘rules in
use’ of sharia differ greatly between these groups.

You are welcome for the education.

[Brownshoe]

(07-19-2016, 01:04 AM)fredtoast Wrote: But at the same time they can follow other parts of Sharia Law.  And this means they DO follow Sharia law.

Why does something this simple go over your head.  Why should Newt want to deport Muslims who follow the Sharia law in areas of marriage, diet, etc?

Does the fact that I download a song illegally mean that I am a threat to murder someone because I "Don't follow the law?"

If they don't follow all of Sharia law then they don't follow Sharia law. It's fine and dandy if they follow some parts of it, but that doesn't mean that they're following the law, because if they were they would be cutting peoples hands off and killing people. If the law tells you to do something, and you don't do it then you're not following the law.

I don't think any Muslim should be deported. I said if they believe in Sharia law they shouldn't be given access to this country, and if they're already in to put them on a watch list.

No, because illegally downloading a song isn't subscribing yourself to a law that tells you to go murder people.

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 01:11 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope, it just means your experience has taught you how to go to a hospital. Was there a point?

The point is that the fact that you visit a country does not mean you understand everything about it. Not surprised that you were not able to figure that out.

But since you are so proud of your "first hand knowledge" tell me this. Is polygamy forbidden by Sharia law or not?

[Brownshoe]

(07-19-2016, 01:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The point is that the fact that you visit a country does not mean you understand everything about it.  Not surprised that you were not able to figure that out.

But since you are so proud of your "first hand knowledge" tell me this.  Is polygamy forbidden by Sharia law or not?

Polygamy is only forbidden by women in Sharia law.

[*bfine32*]

(07-19-2016, 01:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The point is that the fact that you visit a country does not mean you understand everything about it.  Not surprised that you were not able to figure that out.

But since you are so proud of your "first hand knowledge" tell me this.  Is polygamy forbidden by Sharia law or not?

I think you are confused, Pat is the one that has trumpeted his first hand experience with Muslims and those that follow Sharia.  

As to your question: No. 

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 01:12 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: It's fine and dandy if they follow some parts of it, but that doesn't mean that they're following the law,

Yes it does.

What else would they be following when the follow some tenets of Sharia Law except Sharia Law?

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 01:21 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I think you are confused, Pat is the one that has trumpeted his first hand experience with Muslims and those that follow Sharia.  

No. Not confused at all. I have read many posts where you claimed you had superior knowledge just because you served in the middle east.

[Brownshoe]

(07-19-2016, 01:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes it does.

What else would they be following when the follow some tenets of Sharia Law except Sharia Law?

They would be following passages from the Quran.

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 01:18 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Polygamy is only forbidden by women in Sharia law.

(07-19-2016, 01:21 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As to your question: No. 

But it was abolished under Sharia Law in Tunisia.

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 01:31 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: They would be following passages from the Quran.

Now you are just playing semantics.

Or are you saying it is okay to follow the Quran but not Sharia Law?