Newt wants to deport Americans who practice Islam

[Brownshoe]

(07-19-2016, 10:46 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The all of nothing argument doesn't hold up. If someone asked if I followed or believed in the laws of the US, I'd say yes even though I occasionally speed or, in the past, have downloaded music illegally. 

If I was asked by Newt Gingrich "Do you believe in US laws", I'd still answer yes as most of them guide my daily life. 

It also goes for any other religious law. I do not know many people who agree on following all of them even within denominations. 

(07-19-2016, 10:31 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: If you don't follow a law in the US then you don't believe in that law. That doesn't mean that you don't believe in all of the laws. Sharia law umbrella's all of the rules from killing someone who insults Islam, to dietary rules. You can believe in the dietary rules, but disagree with killing someone who insults Islam. That would make you a Muslim that doesn't believe in Sharia law.

[*bfine32*]

(07-19-2016, 10:41 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: 1) Correct, I recognize it is a law. That does not mean, as I was told by another, that I do not believe in the system of laws in this nation.

2) You're still hung up on all or nothing. 

3) And if I believe the law of god should govern my daily life in areas that do not conflict with the laws of this nation (such as daily worship and dietary laws), I believe in it. It's unconstitutional to try to deport me for practicing this. 

Why are you and Fred the only 2 talking about deportation in this back and forth? Did you miss the part where Sharia is a legal system and not Muslim core beliefs/ You cannot have your own seperate legal system based on religion; regardless if some of them are harmoneous.

[BmorePat87]

(07-19-2016, 10:52 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Why are you and Fred the only 2 talking about deportation in this back and forth? Did you miss the part where Sharia is a legal system and not Muslim core beliefs/ You cannot have your own seperate legal system based on religion; regardless if some of them are harmoneous.

Because of the thread title? Did you seriously ask why we're the only ones talking about the topic?

Did you miss the part where it tells them how to practice their core beliefs?

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 10:52 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Why are you and Fred the only 2 talking about deportation in this back and forth?

Why do you keep ignoring Newt's direct quote and the title of this thread?

[*bfine32*]

(07-19-2016, 11:52 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Because of the thread title? Did you seriously ask why we're the only ones talking about the topic?

Did you miss the part where it tells them how to practice their core beliefs?

(07-19-2016, 12:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why do you keep ignoring Newt's direct quote and the title of this thread?

Well, I'm not Newt and entered the conversation only when I saw folks talking about how great Sharia law is and the title of the thread mentions nothing of Sharia Law.

But to add my $0.002. I have zero issue if anyone that aheres a set of Laws and punishments seperate and often times contrary from those of the land is deported to a place that follows such laws and punishments.

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 12:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well, I'm not Newt and entered the conversation only when I saw folks talking about how great Sharia law is and the title of the thread mentions nothing of Sharia Law.

So you just asked the question because you had no idea what the thread was about..

I am not surprised.

[*bfine32*]

(07-19-2016, 12:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So you just asked the question because you had no idea what the thread was about..

I am not surprised.

I seen the thread take on nemerous tangents to include Trump, Newt, islamic core beliefs, and Sharia law.

But you just want someone that disagrees with your stance to "stay on topic"

I am not surprised.

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 12:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But you just want someone that disagrees with your stance to "stay on topic"

No. I just ask that people read the title of the thread before asking why I am talking about the issue in the title of the thread.

[BmorePat87]

(07-19-2016, 12:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: when I saw folks talking about how great Sharia law

Apparently you were reading the wrong thread, which explains your confusion as to why people were on topic.

[*bfine32*]

(07-19-2016, 01:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No. I just ask that people read the title of the thread before asking why I am talking about the issue in the title of the thread.

(07-19-2016, 01:07 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote:

Apparently you were reading the wrong thread, which explains your confusion as to why people were on topic.

Your perimeters about how we must only discuss the OP when a counter-point is introduced in a thread has been noted and will be strictly adhered to.

I suppose the disconnect comes with: What exactly does it mean to practice Sharia Law. Seemed folks were trying to part and parcel it and I asserted it is a Law that cannot be altered.

I did follow my directives and relooked the title and the article quoted in the OP. I guess the disconnect is when the OP used Islam in the title in place of Sharia. Because how controversial would a thread be titled 'NEwt wants to deport Americans who believe in Sharia Law"; as that is what he said. Then the discussion becomes: What exactly is believing in Sharia Law and that was the discussion I thought we were having. I should have known it was about something else.

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 12:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: when I saw folks talking about how great Sharia law is

Link to anyone saying Sharia Law is "great", please.

[*bfine32*]

(07-19-2016, 01:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Link to anyone saying Sharia Law is "great", please.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8844819/Libyas-liberation-interim-ruler-unveils-more-radical-than-expected-plans-for-Islamic-law.html

Of course they know what it is.

[GMDino]

(07-19-2016, 01:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8844819/Libyas-liberation-interim-ruler-unveils-more-radical-than-expected-plans-for-Islamic-law.html

Of course they know what it is.

Was that someone in this thread?

Oh...you were being snarky.

I forgot you don't respond to me.

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 10:14 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks do understand that Sharia is a form of legal system don't they? So to suggest no one in the US follow Sharia is simply saying, believe all you want; you just cannot impose your Sharia Law here. it is different from the core beliefs of muslims.

But many Muslims have set up Sharia courts here in the United States to decide religious disputes that do not conflict with US laws and court systems.

They are no different from Christian Church Counsel enforcing rules about what their members can do and still remain a member of the church.

[BmorePat87]

(07-19-2016, 01:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Your perimeters  about how we must only discuss the OP when a counter-point is introduced in a thread has been noted and will be strictly adhered to.

I suppose the disconnect comes with: What exactly does it mean to practice Sharia Law. Seemed folks were trying to part and parcel it and I asserted it is a Law that cannot be altered.

I did follow my directives and relooked the title and the article quoted in the OP. I guess the disconnect is when the OP used Islam in the title in place of Sharia. Because how controversial would a thread be titled 'NEwt wants to deport Americans who believe in Sharia Law"; as that is what he said. Then the discussion becomes: What exactly is believing in Sharia Law and that was the discussion I thought we were having. I should have known it was about something else.

You first asked why we were discussing deportation, the topic of this thread, and now you're suggesting that WE are restricting the conversation?

Yea, ok.

[BmorePat87]

(07-19-2016, 01:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8844819/Libyas-liberation-interim-ruler-unveils-more-radical-than-expected-plans-for-Islamic-law.html

Of course they know what it is.

I didn't know Mustafa Abdul-Jalil was a Bengals fan. Which user is he?

[Mike M (the other one)]

I don't get how people can defend Sharia Law:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dad-wont-let-drowning-daughter-be-saved-by-strange-rescuer-report/

A 20-year-old woman drowned at a beach in Dubai after her father prevented rescuers from saving her because it would "dishonor her," an official told Emirates 24|7.

Lt. Col Ahmed Burqibah, a deputy director with the Dubai Police, told the media outlet that an Asian man took his wife and kids to the beach "when suddenly, the 20-year-old girl started drowning and screaming for help."

Burqibah said that two lifeguards rushed to help the woman but her father refused to let them intervene.

"The father was a tall and strong man. He started pulling and preventing the rescue men and got violent with them. He told them that he prefers his daughter being dead than being touched by a strange man," Burqibah said.

Burqibah told Emirates 24|7 that the father believed that if the men touched his daughter, "then this would dishonor her."

The woman drowned and her father was arrested, he said.

"She died unfortunately, at a time when she had a chance to live, especially that the rescue men were so close to her to pull her out of the water," he said.
________________________________________________________________________

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/asia/pakistan-qandeel-baloch-brother-confession/index.html

Brother of Pakistan's Qandeel Baloch: I'm 'proud' of strangling my sister.

The brother of Pakistani social media star, Qandeel Baloch, says he's proud he killed his sister, claiming he did it because "girls are born to stay home."

The 25 year-old Qandeel was strangled Friday at her family home in the city of Multan in the Pakistani province of Punjab. After going on the run, her brother was later arrested. In his confession video, he expresses no regret.

"I am proud of what I did. I drugged her first, then I killed her," Waseem Baloch says. "She was bringing dishonor to our family."

Qandeel rose to fame due to the sassy, and increasingly political, videos she posted on Facebook.

Her brother Waseem claims that having his friends share her pictures and video clips was "too much" for him and killing his sister was a better alternative than killing himself.

Both adored and reviled, Qandeel, who was buried Sunday, referred to herself as a "modern day feminist" and had nearly 750,000 followers on Facebook.

In his confession, Waseem remarks that he thinks he will be remembered with pride and honor, and by bringing honor to his family he has earned his place "in heaven."

"Girls are born to stay home and follow traditions. My sister never did that," he says.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/afghanistan-pregnant-14-year-old-girl-tortured-burned-honor-killing/

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/india-muslim-murders-17-year-old-daughter-in-honor-killing

[*bfine32*]

(07-19-2016, 08:01 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I don't get how people can defend Sharia Law:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dad-wont-let-drowning-daughter-be-saved-by-strange-rescuer-report/

A 20-year-old woman drowned at a beach in Dubai after her father prevented rescuers from saving her because it would "dishonor her," an official told Emirates 24|7.

Lt. Col Ahmed Burqibah, a deputy director with the Dubai Police, told the media outlet that an Asian man took his wife and kids to the beach "when suddenly, the 20-year-old girl started drowning and screaming for help."

Burqibah said that two lifeguards rushed to help the woman but her father refused to let them intervene.

"The father was a tall and strong man. He started pulling and preventing the rescue men and got violent with them. He told them that he prefers his daughter being dead than being touched by a strange man," Burqibah said.

Burqibah told Emirates 24|7 that the father believed that if the men touched his daughter, "then this would dishonor her."

The woman drowned and her father was arrested, he said.

"She died unfortunately, at a time when she had a chance to live, especially that the rescue men were so close to her to pull her out of the water," he said.
________________________________________________________________________

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/asia/pakistan-qandeel-baloch-brother-confession/index.html

Brother of Pakistan's Qandeel Baloch: I'm 'proud' of strangling my sister.

The brother of Pakistani social media star, Qandeel Baloch, says he's proud he killed his sister, claiming he did it because "girls are born to stay home."

The 25 year-old Qandeel was strangled Friday at her family home in the city of Multan in the Pakistani province of Punjab. After going on the run, her brother was later arrested. In his confession video, he expresses no regret.

"I am proud of what I did. I drugged her first, then I killed her," Waseem Baloch says. "She was bringing dishonor to our family."

Qandeel rose to fame due to the sassy, and increasingly political, videos she posted on Facebook.

Her brother Waseem claims that having his friends share her pictures and video clips was "too much" for him and killing his sister was a better alternative than killing himself.

Both adored and reviled, Qandeel, who was buried Sunday, referred to herself as a "modern day feminist" and had nearly 750,000 followers on Facebook.

In his confession, Waseem remarks that he thinks he will be remembered with pride and honor, and by bringing honor to his family he has earned his place "in heaven."

"Girls are born to stay home and follow traditions. My sister never did that," he says.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/afghanistan-pregnant-14-year-old-girl-tortured-burned-honor-killing/

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/06/india-muslim-murders-17-year-old-daughter-in-honor-killing

I read the story about the Pakistani model last night. There are those on both sides that will exaggerate it. Some will tell you that those that believe it want to kill everyone that does not follow it and there will be other that suggest it just means they don't  eat pork. What some are referring to as Sharia Law here; I simply consider to be individual Muslim core beliefs. Sharia is more concerned with how to govern a society.  

[fredtoast]

(07-19-2016, 08:01 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I don't get how people can defend Sharia Law:

No one defends these tenets of Sharia Law.

Why would you even say anything like this?

[THE Bigzoman]

(07-16-2016, 05:07 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yes, there are some absolutely repugnant parts of it, and there are parts that are just standard practices in their religion. The point being, you cannot lump it all together as a bad thing. If I were a Muslim who followed all of the day to day practices, I would technically be following Sharia. HOWEVER, even if someone did believe that it SHOULD be right to do that, the 1st Amendment still protects their right to think that, just not do it or tell others to do it.

It's like lumping in the idea that you can rape a girl if you marry her and pay her dad in with honoring your mother and father. 

Actually, we can lump it all as a bad thing, particularly with Islam. For two reasons.

1. It's common within the religion itself. Those that practice some of the worse parts of Islam outnumber those that don't.

2. Other western religions have it too, but have experienced periods in history where it was criticized heavily. Islam hasn't experienced a single period of critical evaluation in its history. Mainly because of people like you coddling it.