North Korea denuclearization

[GMDino]

(03-28-2018, 03:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Trump agreed to meet with the leader of another country because he "doesn't know how foreign relations work"? 

Does anyone see the dark cloud behind the silver lining in this? 

Does anyone understand the history of the NK leadership?

[Belsnickel]

(03-28-2018, 03:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Trump agreed to meet with the leader of another country because he "doesn't know how foreign relations work"? 

Yes.

[*bfine32*]

(03-28-2018, 03:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yes.

Well let's just hope he's ignorant enough to have the face to face meeting and open a direct dialog. But I'm sure somebody, somewhere that knows how foreign policy works is saying such a meeting should not occur because.........

[Belsnickel]

(03-28-2018, 03:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well let's just hope he's ignorant enough to have the face to face meeting and open a direct dialog. But I'm sure somebody, somewhere that knows how foreign policy works is saying such a meeting should not occur because.........

Because a head of state meeting is the last step in a negotiations process. It takes place after details are discussed in an open dialogue between diplomats. Having the meeting gives Kim a win already without have to give up anything and takes away any real leverage Trump has.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-28-2018, 03:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Because a head of state meeting is the last step in a negotiations process. It takes place after details are discussed in an open dialogue between diplomats. Having the meeting gives Kim a win already without have to give up anything and takes away any real leverage Trump has.

I guess the back channel work by SK and China were just coincidental?

After a clear push by trump.

[*bfine32*]

(03-28-2018, 03:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Because a head of state meeting is the last step in a negotiations process. It takes place after details are discussed in an open dialogue between diplomats. Having the meeting gives Kim a win already without have to give up anything and takes away any real leverage Trump has.

If you say so. I have no problem with heads of state meeting face to face in any step of the negotiation process, but admittedly, I don't know how it is "supposed" to work. As the "correct" method has been extremely fruitful in NK relations.  

[Belsnickel]

(03-28-2018, 03:58 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I guess the back channel work by SK and China were just coincidental?

After a clear push by trump.

They are always doing their thing with NK. We have nothing to do with that, especially given that we don't have a diplomatic presence to do anything.

(03-28-2018, 04:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If you say so. I have no problem with heads of state meeting face to face in any step of the negotiation process, but admittedly, I don't know how it is "supposed" to work. As the "correct" method has been extremely fruitful in NK relations.  

Well, I'm just going off of former NSC staffers, intelligence community members, State Department officials, and other foreign policy experts. I rely on them to tell me how it is supposed to work and how Trump is giving up leverage in this situation.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-28-2018, 04:25 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: They are always doing their thing with NK. We have nothing to do with that, especially given that we don't have a diplomatic presence to do anything.


Well, I'm just going off of former NSC staffers, intelligence community members, State Department officials, and other foreign policy experts. I rely on them to tell me how it is supposed to work and how Trump is giving up leverage in this situation.

I really don't know if meeting him is a good idea or not, but "how it's supposed to work" hasn't seemed all that effective.  So I wouldn't use that as the basis of what to do and not do.  

[Belsnickel]

(03-28-2018, 04:47 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I really don't know if meeting him is a good idea or not, but "how it's supposed to work" hasn't seemed all that effective.  So I wouldn't use that as the basis of what to do and not do.  

I'm not going to disagree that we need some new thinking on NK, but this goes beyond that. The head of state meeting is usually a ceremonial one to hammer out last minute details, smile for the cameras, and seal the deal. There is no country in which negotiations are going to be conducted by the head of state because they never know enough to get into the details. This is why there is (usually) a large staff in the State Department that are experts on regions, on countries, on individuals, on issues, and they work to hammer out any details. Then they call in the big guns for the final show of it all.

All this meeting will serve to do is provide Kim the legitimacy by a western nation that his father craved and he craves presently. By granting him that meeting, Trump has given him what he wants. He can go into the meeting, shake hands, get some photos, and come out the other side having talked about nothing but Stormy Daniels and he has what he wants without giving up anything.

[*bfine32*]

(03-28-2018, 04:47 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I really don't know if meeting him is a good idea or not, but "how it's supposed to work" hasn't seemed all that effective.  So I wouldn't use that as the basis of what to do and not do.  

I have found that in negotiations that often talks get convoluted when occurring between members of lower staff, sometimes it is more effective to just speak directly with the Branch Chief then I can go back and tell my staff exactly what each side wants and have them work toward a solution. 

Come to think of it, most negotiations I participate in take place in a top-bottom format.  

[fredtoast]

(03-28-2018, 03:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Trump agreed to meet with the leader of another country because he "doesn't know how foreign relations work"? 

Does anyone see the dark cloud behind the silver lining in this? 

Why do you always ask questions instead of making statements?

If you have something to say then why not say just say it?

As for the comment about not kowing how foreign relations work it goes back to the reasons previous US presidents have not met with NK leaders.  There has to be a groundwork laid before negotiations between leaders can begin. Otherwise it will just be a PR move for Kim to claim he "faced down" Trump.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-28-2018, 10:55 AM)GMDino Wrote: There's a reason that no sitting US president has agreed to meet with the NK leader. but....


Teehee.

Leave Baker Mayfield and Huge Jackson out of this.

[*bfine32*]

(03-29-2018, 12:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why do you always ask questions instead of making statements?

If you have something to say then why not say just say it?

...and the winner for most ironic statement ever on a message board goes to.........


As to the rest: A new approach may be what is required, because the "correct" approach hasn't worked for about 60 years. OK Kim gets to say he "faced down" Trump. If it moves NK more to a free society I don't care.