North Korea threatens to withdraw from summit with Trump

[Bengalzona]

(05-24-2018, 11:20 PM)Dill Wrote: I want me one of those coins   I'm pretty sure they will increase in value.

 

I hear Nixon campaign pins fetch a real good price right now.

[Dill]

(05-24-2018, 07:40 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Either this was planned by the WH, or Pence is an idiot. Its hard to tell which. Trying to get to the table with North Korea is beyond delicate at this point. But yet on Monday Pence had to open his mouth about it.

"There was some talk about the Libya model," Pence told Fox News' Martha MacCallum. "As the President made clear, this will only end like the Libya model ended if Kim Jong Un doesn't make a deal." When MacCallum said that some people may have seen Bolton's comments as a threat, Pence said "I think it's more of a fact." https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/politics/mike-pence-north-korea-intl/index.html

So in response to that the NK woman made her remarks, which ruffled Trumps feathers enough to cancel the meeting.

Seriously, wtf. If they are serious about getting to the table, just the shut the eff up about anything until the meeting happens. So again, either Pence was told to say that knowing that NK would respond to it. Or Pence is just an amateur idiot at this.

The amateur idiot is the one who said "yes" to a meeting before 1) running through possible outcomes with his NSC and their area experts, and then 2) sending lower level officials to discuss expectations and options BEFORE any official announcements and press coverage. If the expectations are just too far apart so NO ONE can win or look good, the overture does not rise to the level of international news with the credibility and judgement of both parties on the line. That's how not to get caught with your pants down. 

Hinting China might be to blame is also not helpful.

This has nothing to do with "what Pence said" or what some North Korea said. NK says the same thing on the news every day.  We still don't have an ambassador to NK or a State Dept. staff which can competently work on a peace process.  But if you don't like big government, the good news is the state department has been downsized.

[Dill]

(05-24-2018, 11:28 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: I hear Nixon campaign pins fetch a real good price right now.

Seriously, I think these Trump Kim coins will be worth more, faster.

People are going to be hating on Trump incompetence and Blowvado for the foreseeable future.

This monument to ill considered grasping at straws will be especially symbolic.

[fredtoast]

Trump got played by the Rocket Man.

That is what you get when you try to act like there are no skills involved in being a politician. I mean, who needs people who know how to run a country to run our country, right?

[*Nately120*]

(05-25-2018, 10:10 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Trump got played by the Rocket Man.

That is what you get when you try to act like there are no skills involved in being a politician.  I mean, who needs people who know how to run a country to run our country, right?

I'm sure the next blowhard celebrity we elect to lead us will do better 

[Bengalzona]

(05-25-2018, 10:45 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm sure the next blowhard celebrity we elect to lead us will do better 

Blowhard, eh?!?!

Why, everyone knows that OBAMA was a way bigger blowhard than Trump!!! We had to go through 8 dam years of his blowharding!!!

[*bfine32*]

(05-25-2018, 10:10 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Trump got played by the Rocket Man.

That is what you get when you try to act like there are no skills involved in being a politician.  I mean, who needs people who know how to run a country to run our country, right?

Not sure how Trump got played by Rocket Man, when Trump is the one that cancelled the summit. I'm sure you would not have asserted that he got played if Kim would have cancelled. You have no idea of the inner working and what intelligence led to the cancellation, But nothing wrong with always assuming the worst.

As to your last part I agree 100%. Folks call for an outsider until they get one. 

[fredtoast]

(05-25-2018, 11:27 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sure how Trump got played by Rocket Man, when Trump is the one that cancelled the summit. I'm sure you would not have asserted that he got played if Kim would have cancelled. You have no idea of the inner working and what intelligence led to the cancellation, But nothing wrong with always assuming the worst.

Right now Kim is looking like the smart guy who wants to negotiate.  He has released prisoners and even destroyed some parts of their nuclear facilities.  I am sure it was all just for show, but he has set up Trump to look like the inexperienced rube who bragged about setting up this summit then backed out for no reason.

Why exactly did Trump say he cancelled?  What were the conditions for the summit that Korea failed to meet?

[Belsnickel]

(05-25-2018, 11:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Right now Kim is looking like the smart guy who wants to negotiate.  He has released prisoners and even destroyed some parts of their nuclear facilities.  I am sure it was all just for show, but he has set up Trump to look like the inexperienced rube who bragged about setting up this summit then backed out for no reason.

Why exactly did Trump say he cancelled?  What were the conditions for the summit that Korea failed to meet?

I disagree. Trump's move gives him the upper hand, again. He had lost some of that, which is one of the reasons I think he canceled the summit. His moves leading up to it had given away some of the bargaining position the US had. By walking away now he regains some of that position.

[fredtoast]

(05-25-2018, 12:05 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I disagree. Trump's move gives him the upper hand, again. He had lost some of that, which is one of the reasons I think he canceled the summit. His moves leading up to it had given away some of the bargaining position the US had. By walking away now he regains some of that position.

That only works if he can show that North Korea violated some condition that was required for the summit.

This way it just looks like Trump wanted to brag about the summit without knowing what he was doing.

[*bfine32*]

(05-25-2018, 11:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Right now Kim is looking like the smart guy who wants to negotiate.  He has released prisoners and even destroyed some parts of their nuclear facilities.  I am sure it was all just for show, but he has set up Trump to look like the inexperienced rube who bragged about setting up this summit then backed out for no reason.

Why exactly did Trump say he cancelled?  What were the conditions for the summit that Korea failed to meet?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/heres-why-trump-canceled-the-north-korea-summit/

Quote:White House official cited North Korea's objection to a routine annual military exercise, North Koreans' failure to show up when the U.S. sent and advance team to Singapore, an inability to verify North Korea's claims it destroyed its nuclear cite, and unreturned communications as contributing reasons.

[Belsnickel]

Did anyone else see this thing? A White House official went on background, sent out an official email to the press and everything about it, and made statements. Then, when the information was reported, Trump called it all lies and said the official didn't exist.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/26/world/asia/trump-korea-summit-twitter.html

[BmorePat87]

(05-29-2018, 09:09 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Did anyone else see this thing? A White House official went on background, sent out an official email to the press and everything about it, and made statements. Then, when the information was reported, Trump called it all lies and said the official didn't exist.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/26/world/asia/trump-korea-summit-twitter.html

People wondering why people don't like Trump... it's dumb shit like this. He's so dead set on just saying anything is "fake news", that he is willing to, in the official capacity of the ***** President of the United States, outright lie and claim something the NYT's report is fake and that their sources do not exist... even though his administration did in fact brief the press. 

[CKwi88]

(05-29-2018, 11:15 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: People wondering why people don't like Trump... it's dumb shit like this. He's so dead set on just saying anything is "fake news", that he is willing to, in the official capacity of the ***** President of the United States, outright lie and claim something the NYT's report is fake and that their sources do not exist... even though his administration did in fact brief the press. 

But that's why people like Trump, because he's imperfect, just like the little guys.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-29-2018, 11:15 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: People wondering why people don't like Trump... it's dumb shit like this. He's so dead set on just saying anything is "fake news", that he is willing to, in the official capacity of the ***** President of the United States, outright lie and claim something the NYT's report is fake and that their sources do not exist... even though his administration did in fact brief the press. 

I don't think anyone wonders why people don't like Trump.  Even if you're his biggest fan it's very clear the man has flaws that make him easy to dislike.

[jj22]

Trump is still begging for this meeting in an unprecedented move by any American President (maybe they feel the need to make use of the millions of taxpayers money spent on those damn coins). Kim is playing him for a fool. Kim cancelled the summit long time ago, and the WH admitted NK quit taking their calls after the joint military practice with SK. If Trump didn't cancel the summit after Kim called him a failed President, you Trump supporters really think he was upset enough to cancel the summit after Pence was called a "political dummy"? Right. Trump trying to save face by claiming to cancel the summit, while spending every day since his "letter" to Kim begging to meet. Actions speak louder than words.

The one thing I'd like for the clear minded folk to pick up on is Pence and Bolton claim that NK has to take Libya path to denuclearization. BUSTED! Finally the @GOP and Trumps Administration is admitting the issue (destabilization) with Libya was the @GOP's war hawks doing. Not Obama's as they like to blame him for it. Here's a little lesson. The @GOP got Gaddafi to give up his nukes. Then we proceeded to bomb Libya, destroy their military and eventually kill Gaddafi. leaving Libya to the ruins it is now. Personally I don't blame Kim for backing out of summit after hearing this from Trumps top officials.

Trumps going to blame Dems as he claims they don't want the summit to take place, but he is being sabotaged from within by his own VP and NSA who are the ones who don't want the summit to take place. They knew what they were doing bringing up Libya. Even if they don't realized they killed a favorite talking point of the right (Libya is Obama's fault).

Lesson to be learned. These places (Iraq/Libya) like NK, may have been better off with their dictators, as they are way worse off and dangerous to America now then they were before under their dictatorship. If we don't learn from the past, we are doomed to repeat it.

[Dill]

(05-29-2018, 11:55 AM)jj22 Wrote: Trump is still begging for this meeting in an unprecedented move by any American President (maybe they feel the need to make use of the millions of taxpayers money spent on those damn coins). Kim is playing him for a fool. Kim cancelled the summit long time ago, and the WH admitted NK quit taking their calls after the joint military practice with SK. If Trump didn't cancel the summit after Kim called him a failed President, you Trump supporters really think he was upset enough to cancel the summit after Pence was called a "political dummy"? Right. Trump trying to save face by claiming to cancel the summit, while spending every day since his "letter" to Kim begging to meet. Actions speak louder than words.

The one thing I'd like for the clear minded folk to pick up on is Pence and Bolton claim that NK has to take Libya path to denuclearization. BUSTED! Finally the @GOP and Trumps Administration is admitting the issue (destabilization) with Libya was the @GOP's war hawks doing. Not Obama's as they like to blame him for it. Here's a little lesson. The @GOP got Gaddafi to give up his nukes. Then we proceeded to bomb Libya, destroy their military and eventually kill Gaddafi. leaving Libya to the ruins it is now. Personally I don't blame Kim for backing out of summit after hearing this from Trumps top officials.

Trumps going to blame Dems as he claims they don't want the summit to take place, but he is being sabotaged from within by his own VP and NSA who are the ones who don't want the summit to take place. They knew what they were doing bringing up Libya. Even if they don't realized they killed a favorite talking point of the right (Libya is Obama's fault).

Lesson to be learned. These places (Iraq/Libya) like NK, may have been better off with their dictators, as they are way worse off and dangerous to America now then they were before under their dictatorship. If we don't learn from the past, we are doomed to repeat it.

Actually, I'd have to say that overthrowing Qaddafi is the "fault" of Obama and Hillary, if you want to call it that.  His fall is not clearly related to his decision to quit manufacturing WMDs in 2003. It was clearly related to the UN/NATO led no-fly zone 8 years later, which neutralized his artillery.


The really troubling thing about this administration is that I AM NOT sure that "they" knew what they were doing when Bolton brought up Libya.  Trump seems to have confused 2003 with 2011 in publicly disagreeing with Bolton. He doesn't play chess.

Bolton does, but like Trump he is a deal breaker, not a deal maker. That's his history. E.g., he was critical in breaking up the earlier Agreed Framework with NK and Bush's "unsigning" the Rome Statute.  He may indeed have a plan, but it would be subject to Trump's whimsy.  A point he cleared with Trump yesterday in the Oval Office could be contradicted today as soon as Bolton announces it.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-29-2018, 11:55 AM)jj22 Wrote: Trump is still begging for this meeting in an unprecedented move by any American President (maybe they feel the need to make use of the millions of taxpayers money spent on those damn coins). Kim is playing him for a fool. Kim cancelled the summit long time ago, and the WH admitted NK quit taking their calls after the joint military practice with SK. If Trump didn't cancel the summit after Kim called him a failed President, you Trump supporters really think he was upset enough to cancel the summit after Pence was called a "political dummy"? Right. Trump trying to save face by claiming to cancel the summit, while spending every day since his "letter" to Kim begging to meet. Actions speak louder than words.

The one thing I'd like for the clear minded folk to pick up on is Pence and Bolton claim that NK has to take Libya path to denuclearization. BUSTED! Finally the @GOP and Trumps Administration is admitting the issue (destabilization) with Libya was the @GOP's war hawks doing. Not Obama's as they like to blame him for it. Here's a little lesson. The @GOP got Gaddafi to give up his nukes. Then we proceeded to bomb Libya, destroy their military and eventually kill Gaddafi. leaving Libya to the ruins it is now. Personally I don't blame Kim for backing out of summit after hearing this from Trumps top officials.

Trumps going to blame Dems as he claims they don't want the summit to take place, but he is being sabotaged from within by his own VP and NSA who are the ones who don't want the summit to take place. They knew what they were doing bringing up Libya. Even if they don't realized they killed a favorite talking point of the right (Libya is Obama's fault).

Lesson to be learned. These places (Iraq/Libya) like NK, may have been better off with their dictators, as they are way worse off and dangerous to America now then they were before under their dictatorship. If we don't learn from the past, we are doomed to repeat it.

Can you clarify?  I think I'm missing something here.

[JustWinBaby]

(05-29-2018, 11:31 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't think anyone wonders why people don't like Trump.  Even if you're his biggest fan it's very clear the man has flaws that make him easy to dislike.

And, well, if the liberal hack media would stop reporting fake news.....then this wouldn't be an issue.

It all does seem a little orchestrated/scripted.  Most people are dug-in with their fake news, but I do think he's opened a few eyes to the faux objectivity.

[GMDino]

https://www.apnews.com/2ff1e53cfc9d42a7821c7f4e6a740642

Quote:North Korea said Thursday that it had test-fired a new type of “tactical guided weapon,” its first such test in nearly half a year, and demanded that Washington remove Secretary of State Mike Pompeo from nuclear negotiations.



The test, which didn’t appear to be of a banned mid- or long-range ballistic missile that could scuttle negotiations, allows North Korea to show its people it is pushing ahead with weapons development while also reassuring domestic military officials worried that diplomacy with Washington signals weakness.


Separately, the North Korean Foreign Ministry accused Pompeo of playing down the significance of comments by leader Kim Jong Un, who said last week that Washington has until the end of the year to offer mutually acceptable terms for an agreement to salvage the high-stakes nuclear diplomacy. Both the demand for Pompeo’s removal from the talks and the weapon test point to North Korea’s displeasure with the deadlocked negotiations.

In a statement issued under the name of Kwon Jong Gun, director general of the American Affairs Department at the Foreign Ministry, North Korea accused Pompeo of “talking nonsense” and misrepresenting Kim’s comments.


During a speech at Texas A&M on Monday, Pompeo said Kim promised to denuclearize during his first summit with President Donald Trump and that U.S. officials were working with the North Koreans to “chart a path forward so we can get there.”


“He (Kim) said he wanted it done by the end of the year,” Pompeo said. “I’d love to see that done sooner.”

[url=https://www.apnews.com/2ff1e53cfc9d42a7821c7f4e6a740642/gallery/media:a742111dbaae4a1d858c5e14238d7b35][/url]The North Korean statement said Pompeo was “misrepresenting the meaning of our requirement” for the negotiations to be finalized by the year’s end, and referred to his “talented skill of fabricating stories.” It said Pompeo’s continued participation in the negotiations would ensure that the talks become “entangled” and called for a different counterpart who is “more careful and mature in communicating with us.”


In a speech at his rubber-stamp parliament last week, Kim said he is open to a third summit with Trump, but only if the United States changes its stance on sanctions enforcement and pressure by the end of the year.


Kim observed the unspecified weapon being fired Wednesday by the Academy of Defense Science, the North’s state-run Korean Central News Agency said. Kim was reported to have said “the development of the weapon system serves as an event of very weighty significance in increasing the combat power of the People’s Army.”


The Associated Press could not independently verify North Korea’s claim, and it wasn’t immediately clear what had been tested. 


A major ballistic missile test would jeopardize the diplomatic talks meant to provide the North with concessions in return for disarmament. A South Korean analyst said that details in the North’s media report indicate it could have been a new type of cruise missile. Another possible clue: one of the lower level officials mentioned in the North’s report on the test — Pak Jong Chon — is known as an artillery official.


Some in Seoul worry that the North will turn back to actions seen as provocative by outsiders as a way to force Washington to drop its hard-line negotiating stance and grant the North’s demand for a removal of crushing international sanctions. A string of increasingly powerful weapons tests in 2017 and Trump’s response of “fire and fury” had many fearing war before the North shifted to diplomacy.


Russia announced Thursday that Kim will visit later this month for talks at the invitation of President Vladimir Putin, but gave no further details. Russian media have been abuzz in recent days with rumors about the rare meeting between the leaders.


Putin is to visit China later this month, and some media speculated that he could meet with Kim in Vladivostok, the far eastern port city near the border with North Korea.


Trump said last month that he “would be very disappointed if I saw testing.” There have been fresh reports of new activity at a North Korean missile research center and long-range rocket site where the North is believed to build missiles targeting the U.S. mainland. North Korean media said Wednesday that Kim guided a flight drill of combat pilots from an air force and anti-aircraft unit tasked with defending the North from an attack.


Kim Dong-yub, an analyst from Seoul’s Institute for Far Eastern Studies, said North Korea’s descriptions of the test show the weapon is possibly a newly developed cruise missile. The North’s report said the “tactical guided weapon” successfully tested in a “peculiar mode of guiding flight” and demonstrated the ability to deliver a “powerful warhead.”


The analyst said the test could also be intended as a message to the North Korean people and military of a commitment to maintaining a strong level of defense even as it continues talks with Washington over nukes.


Melissa Hanham, a non-proliferation expert and director of the Datayo Project at the One Earth Future Foundation, said the North Korean weapon could be anything from an anti-tank weapon to a cruise missile.


The North said Thursday that Kim Jong Un mounted an observation post to learn about and guide the test-fire of the weapon.


This is the first known time Kim has observed the testing of a newly developed weapon system since last November, when North Korean media said he watched the successful test of an unspecified “newly developed ultramodern tactical weapon.” 
Some observers have been expecting North Korea to orchestrate “low-level provocations,” like artillery or short-range missile tests, to register its anger over the way nuclear negotiations were going.

North Korean officials accompanying Kim at the test included Ri Pyong Chol and Kim Jong Sik, two senior officials from the North’s Munitions Industry Department who have been sanctioned by the U.S. Treasury Department for their activities related to the country’s ballistic missile program. Ri is believed to be a key official involved in North Korea’s intercontinental ballistic missile development, while Kim Jong Sik has been linked to the country’s efforts to build solid-fuel missiles. The Pyongyang-based Munitions Industry Department is sanctioned both by the United States and the U.N. Security Council.


“Even if this is not a ‘missile’ test the way we strictly define it, these people and MID are all sanctioned entities for a reason,” Hanham said.


The White House said it was aware of the report and had no comment. The Pentagon also said it was aware but had no information to provide at this point. South Korea’s presidential office said it has no immediate comment. South Korea’s Joint Chiefs of Staff said it is analyzing the test but did not specifically say what the weapon appeared to be.


After the animosity of 2017, last year saw a stunning turn to diplomacy, culminating in the first-ever summit between the U.S. and North Korea in Singapore, and then the Hanoi talks this year. North Korea has suspended nuclear and long-range rocket tests, and the North and South Korean leaders have met three times. But there are growing worries that the progress could be killed by mismatched demands between the U.S. and North Korea over sanctions relief and disarmament.

Who could be so dimwitted and unprepared to continually get played by Kim while being warned by virtually everyone?