Oh the humanity..

[Leon]

(08-06-2022, 01:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, what I am seeing is that there is no real retort to my response that this spike was happening before the end of MPP. Thanks.

why cant you just admit that biden took a already bad situation and made it way worse by his incompitence, now folks are going to suffer even more cause of it. the length folks go to defend biden is crazy. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-06-2022, 01:06 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, what I am seeing is that there is no real retort to my response that this spike was happening before the end of MPP. Thanks.

you mean in Aug/Sep?
or after the Nov elections when a Dem was put back in charge? In which it was anticipated that Biden would be more lax than Trump on immigration???

[Leon]

(08-06-2022, 04:03 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: you mean in Aug/Sep?
or after the Nov elections when a Dem was put back in charge? In which it was anticipated that Biden would be more lax than Trump on immigration???

folks dont like trump. i get it. it is what it is but what i dont get is how they cant just be honest about how bad biden has been on imagration. folks can hate trump and still see biden has been terrible. or they should be able to anyways.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-05-2022, 08:16 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: You're right, the situation at the border could not be at all the result of decades of poor policy decisions across our branches and parties. This also does not in any way exculpate the idea of trying to use the trauma of a young girl to score cheap political points.

You want to talk about border policies? Let's do it in a way that isn't connected to this horrible situation. This is worse, IMO, than using the tragedy of a school/mass shooting to push for gun control in the immediate aftermath. Just make sure to bring specific policy decisions by Biden into the thread that point to him being the reason for the surge.

It's more of a party messaging thing, than actual "policy" decisions.  We have one party who is very vocal in the media, speaking out against any and every effort by the other party to stop/reduce the number of illegal aliens crossing into the US.  So much to the point when the party that speaks out against said measures comes back into office, the said illegal aliens are already lined up at the boarder, ready for mass invasion.

What good are any policy decisions when one party runs to the cooperating media that loudly and proudly broadcasts that "The Democrats will let you in and take care of you"?  Seriously, you can trifle, argue, nit-pick and debate until you're blue in the face about "policy", but until the entire congress as a united front makes it clear that people must enter the country by the rules, nothing will change.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2022, 04:03 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: you mean in Aug/Sep?
or after the Nov elections when a Dem was put back in charge? In which it was anticipated that Biden would be more lax than Trump on immigration???

Spring 2020.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2022, 06:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's more of a party messaging thing, than actual "policy" decisions.  We have one party who is very vocal in the media, speaking out against any and every effort by the other party to stop/reduce the number of illegal aliens crossing into the US.  So much to the point when the party that speaks out against said measures comes back into office, the said illegal aliens are already lined up at the boarder, ready for mass invasion.

What good are any policy decisions when one party runs to the cooperating media that loudly and proudly broadcasts that "The Democrats will let you in and take care of you"?  Seriously, you can trifle, argue, nit-pick and debate until you're blue in the face about "policy", but until the entire congress as a united front makes it clear that people must enter the country by the rules, nothing will change.

If you think that has a big impact on this, you're very much wrong. For one, the messaging from the Democratic party is that the rules have to be followed. The messaging that the mainstream Democratic party is for open borders comes from conservative media, not the Democrats themselves. Second, the issues that push these immigration waves have little to nothing to do with the messaging from our politicians. It has much more to do with situations in their home countries. Do you really think the vast majority of the people trying to enter this country give two shits about what you're talking about? They are trying to escape terrible situations where they are coming from and risking everything to make it happen. Everything. They aren't paying attention to the petty bickering going on in this country.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-06-2022, 06:56 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Spring 2020.

You mean when did Title 42 went into effect? Where they could process Single males faster and send them back to the border so they can try to cross again? That type of thing?

(08-06-2022, 07:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If you think that has a big impact on this, you're very much wrong. For one, the messaging from the Democratic party is that the rules have to be followed. The messaging that the mainstream Democratic party is for open borders comes from conservative media, not the Democrats themselves. Second, the issues that push these immigration waves have little to nothing to do with the messaging from our politicians. It has much more to do with situations in their home countries. Do you really think the vast majority of the people trying to enter this country give two shits about what you're talking about? They are trying to escape terrible situations where they are coming from and risking everything to make it happen. Everything. They aren't paying attention to the petty bickering going on in this country.

Not all but many do. They know when to hedge their bets.
But hey, let's talk about the fact that FY 2021 (you know Biden sworn in on Jan) is breaking records that were set in Mid 80's...

[Belsnickel]

(08-07-2022, 01:08 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You mean when did Title 42 went into effect? Where they could process Single males faster and send them back to the border so they can try to cross again? That type of thing?

Yep. Title 42 is the policy that has had a large impact on the numbers. That, coupled with pandemic restrictions loosening up have been the two largest contributors.

(08-07-2022, 01:08 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Not all but many do. They know when to hedge their bets.
But hey, let's talk about the fact that FY 2021 (you know Biden sworn in on Jan) is breaking records that were set in Mid 80's...

Looking at single years doesn't mean anything. Trends are what we look at in the policy field. When did the trend start? What changes occurred then? What has been done since then? etc.

And most do not care about that stuff. They are just trying to escape.

[basballguy]

(08-05-2022, 04:46 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So why is there an assumption that he reentered the country during Biden's term? Personally, I find it disgusting that people would use something like this to score cheap political points in this manner. Border security isn't something that has a 100% solution. People like this will find ways to get in no matter what; that is true under any administration. You have no idea when he came back into the country or what any of those circumstances are, yet you turn this story about a highly traumatic experience that this girl will have to deal with for her entire life into a political jab against a politician you don't like whose policies really wouldn't have affected this in any way.

**** off with your nonsense.

You don't like his opinion nor the timing of it, so you curse at him?  I mistakenly assumed you were a bit more mature than this.

If we're happy to discuss school shooting within minutes and bring up gun policy (among other things) then I don't see the problem here.  

[Belsnickel]

(08-07-2022, 06:40 PM)basballguy Wrote: You don't like his opinion nor the timing of it, so you curse at him?  I mistakenly assumed you were a bit more mature than this.

Cursing at someone because of anger is not a sign of immaturity, just like bloviating online about things which you know nothing about.

(08-07-2022, 06:40 PM)basballguy Wrote: If we're happy to discuss school shooting within minutes and bring up gun policy (among other things) then I don't see the problem here.  

I'm not happy to do that. You're barking up the wrong tree on that one, bub. I even discussed this parallel already.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-07-2022, 03:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yep. Title 42 is the policy that has had a large impact on the numbers. That, coupled with pandemic restrictions loosening up have been the two largest contributors.


Looking at single years doesn't mean anything. Trends are what we look at in the policy field. When did the trend start? What changes occurred then? What has been done since then? etc.

And most do not care about that stuff. They are just trying to escape.

Except Biden has only been in office for one full years worth of immigration data???? 
Guess what, in Fiscal 2022 the average for the first 5 months that we have data is 214k/month,164k/month vs same 5 months in 2021... so trending appears to be increasing in 2nd year.

And FYI it's not just Guatemalans, Hondurans and people from El Salvador fleeing from the food shortages, it's now got Cubans, Haitians, Venezuelans, Nicaraguans and Columbians. So stop it with that They are all fleeing crap, some are, and others are taking an advantage of the situation.

[Belsnickel]

(08-07-2022, 08:36 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Except Biden has only been in office for one full years worth of immigration data???? 
Guess what, in Fiscal 2022 the average for the first 5 months that we have data is 214k/month,164k/month vs same 5 months in 2021... so trending appears to be increasing in 2nd year.

And FYI it's not just Guatemalans, Hondurans and people from El Salvador fleeing from the food shortages, it's now got Cubans, Haitians, Venezuelans, Nicaraguans and Columbians. So stop it with that They are all fleeing crap, some are, and others are taking an advantage of the situation.

You think that people from those other countries couldn't be fleeing terrible situations? You don't seem to understand the issues going on in Latin America. And I know it is increasing, but when you see an upward trend that started beforehand, you look at it and ask what happened to start the trend? You start at the base of the mountain, not the middle.

[masonbengals fan]

Just another example of "Don't believe you're lying eyes"

[*Nately120*]

(08-08-2022, 08:00 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Just another example of "Don't believe you're lying eyes"

Americans just aren't particularly interested in delving beyond the easy and relaxing solution that is replacing the current president. 

[masonbengals fan]

(08-08-2022, 08:04 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Americans just aren't particularly interested in delving beyond the easy and relaxing solution that is replacing the current president. 

or making excuses for him.

[*Nately120*]

(08-08-2022, 08:08 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: or making excuses for him.

That's the sports team mentality that most folks have towards politics.   What can ya do?  

Hell if i recall correctly Bels blew some conservative minds here by pointing out that the economy under Biden factually isn't the complete hellscape the media peddles. 

We have our beliefs and generic templates for the parties so if X is happening it is as simple as electing president Y to fix it. 

[Belsnickel]

(08-08-2022, 08:00 AM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Just another example of "Don't believe you're lying eyes"

Or, more accurate, take off your blinders and look at the whole picture.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-08-2022, 08:15 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Or, more accurate, take off your blinders and look at the whole picture.

You should try that.
If you think the families that are sending their unaccompanied minors aren't playing the long game (get their kids here, once they become USC's apply to bring parents to US), then you need to take your own advice.
also using your "they are all escaping bad situations" mentality, i supposed that any gang bangers that are coming over (illegally, cause they won't get asylum) are also just coming here to make a good ol buck on us... what a crock.

[Belsnickel]

(08-08-2022, 09:45 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You should try that.
If you think the families that are sending their unaccompanied minors aren't playing the long game (get their kids here, once they become USC's apply to bring parents to US), then you need to take your own advice.
also using your "they are all escaping bad situations" mentality, i supposed that any gang bangers that are coming over (illegally, cause they won't get asylum) are also just coming here to make a good ol buck on us... what a crock.

Except I am looking at the whole picture.

The "gang bangers" are the small minority and aren't what's driving the surge. The surges come from situations occurring in these countries that cause people to seek a better life. The folks coming from cartels and gangs are a pretty steady flow by comparison.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-08-2022, 09:55 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Except I am looking at the whole picture.

The "gang bangers" are the small minority and aren't what's driving the surge. The surges come from situations occurring in these countries that cause people to seek a better life. The folks coming from cartels and gangs are a pretty steady flow by comparison.

Tell me why they are sending unaccompanied minors?