Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion

[GMDino]

(05-20-2016, 09:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope. I provided a state laws that is contrary to Federal. 

Acrobats are in full force and that sentence still makes no sense

(05-20-2016, 09:13 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Except marijuana criminalization isn't in the Constitution. The basis of federal law keeping abortion illegal is the Constitution. Have any examples of state law contradicting the Constitution and it holding up?

There's no point Matt.  He has no reasoning so he's going to keep creating "scenarios" to make a "point" and ignoring the main reason he's wrong.

[*bfine32*]

(05-20-2016, 09:13 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Except marijuana criminalization isn't in the Constitution. The basis of federal law keeping abortion illegal is the Constitution. Have any examples of state law contradicting the Constitution and it holding up?

So are you saying abortion being illegal is in the Constitution? 

But to answer your question: Let me make up this "scenario" to show you that the marijuana laws are against the Constitution:

"Article VI of the Constitution states that, “This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land."


Colorado does not follow the federal law of The Controlled Substance Act and is therefore in violation of the Constitution.


      

[*bfine32*]

(05-20-2016, 09:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Yes, I do agree a fetus has to be alive before it is aborted.  I never disputed a fetus is alive.  However, if I am to believe the Bible then God created "life," not humans.

Yes life began when God conceived it. I can only assume you think you are making a point in your head. 

[*bfine32*]

(05-20-2016, 09:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Oh, I am sorry, I didn't realize you were arguing against something I didn't say. 

My bad. I thought we you said nobody here likes the idea of abortion; you were talking in a broader scope. Apparently, you meant the people currently in the room with you. 

[Belsnickel]

(05-20-2016, 10:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So are you saying abortion being illegal is in the Constitution? 

But to answer your question: Let me make up this "scenario" to show you that the marijuana laws are against the Constitution:

"Article VI of the Constitution states that, “This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land."


Colorado does not follow the federal law of The Controlled Substance Act and is therefore in violation of the Constitution.      

I was saying the basis for it being legal is in the Constitution, per SCOTUS. But you have a valid point in the rest of your post.

(05-20-2016, 10:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My bad. I thought we you said nobody here likes the idea of abortion; you were talking in a broader scope. Apparently, you meant the people currently in the room with you. 

Actually, I was referring to the message board. I am not sure how me using here would lead to the broadness of everyone, but hey, you do you.

[GMDino]

And here we are arguing when "life begins" and why abortions are legal and how it's not about religion at all when someone is against legal abortions.

I'd be stunned but it's every time.

[*bfine32*]

(05-20-2016, 11:08 PM)GMDino Wrote: And here we are arguing when "life begins" and why abortions are legal and how it's not about religion at all when someone is against legal abortions.

I'd be stunned but it's every time.

You are the 3rd person to bring up religion in this conversation: Can you name the other 2?

My original post in this thread addressed the legality of the measure only; others started in with the same old, same old.  I've simply provided a "scenario" as to where Oklahoma can pass this law. There are those that are dragging out the same tired argument; however, you may be mistaken as to who they are.

This thread has digressed to the same tired argument; however, I am comfortable in the fact that I did not take it there.   

[GMDino]

(05-20-2016, 11:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You are the 3rd person to bring up religion in this conversation: Can you name the other 2?

My original post in this thread addressed the legality of the measure only; others started in with the same old, same old.  I've simply provided a "scenario" as to where Oklahoma can pass this law. There are those that are dragging out the same tired argument; however, you may be mistaken as to who they are.

This thread has digressed to the same tired argument; however, I am comfortable in the fact that I did not take it there.   

Then I guess I wasn't talking about you.  So why reply to it?

[Benton]

(05-20-2016, 08:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I knew this. It was to refute the claim that Oklahoma "cannot" do this. 

Ah, gotcha. That's what I get for jumping into the middle of a thread.

Not sure that's the best example though. Pot is still illegal federally, but no one is challenging it. The next president might come in and flood those states with ATF agents. Likewise, the next president might turn a blind eye to what Oklahoma is doing or he might strip them of federal funding for not complying.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-20-2016, 10:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yes life began when God conceived it. I can only assume you think you are making a point in your head. 

(05-20-2016, 01:37 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm not all or nothing on abortion either; however, too often legitimate debates are dismissed by the liberal because of religion. "He ignored science because of religion". When in actuallity those those debate the fact that life starts at conception are ignoring science.

Are you claiming when you wrote "life starts at conception" you didn't mean life starts when a sperm fertilizes an egg?

[*bfine32*]

(05-21-2016, 12:41 AM)Benton Wrote: Ah, gotcha. That's what I get for jumping into the middle of a thread.

Not sure that's the best example though. Pot is still illegal federally, but no one is challenging it. The next president might come in and flood those states with ATF agents. Likewise, the next president might turn a blind eye to what Oklahoma is doing or he might strip them of federal funding for not complying.

So even though it makes perfect sense; it's not the best example? Of course Colorado is challenging the fact that pot is illegal nationally. They are imposing their state's right. 

[Benton]

(05-21-2016, 01:43 AM)bfine32 Wrote: So even though it makes perfect sense; it's not the best example? Of course Colorado is challenging the fact that pot is illegal nationally. They are imposing their state's right. 

Opposite ends.

Colorado is saying it wont enforce a federal law.

Oklahoma is enforcing laws counter to what federal courts have ruled.

[*bfine32*]

(05-21-2016, 02:36 AM)Benton Wrote: Opposite ends.

Colorado is saying it wont enforce a federal law.

Oklahoma is enforcing laws counter to what federal courts have ruled.

Colorado passed amendment 64 on November 6 2012. This amendment is counter to federal law and they are enforcing it in the form of taxation. 

Regardless how hard people try; the only reason these proposals are at "opposite ends" is because folks like one and don't like the other. Seems like folks are just trying to create "scenarios" to show why they differ. Quick someone hits the violates Human Rights stance. 

All these experts and no one has answered my initial question of: If a state wanted to challenge Roe v. Wade what steps would it take. I have received one answer of "they can't"; I'm just going to need a couple people to affirm that and then we can contact Oklahoma.   

[GMDino]

(05-21-2016, 09:58 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Colorado passed amendment 64 on November 6 2012. This amendment is counter to federal law and they are enforcing it in the form of taxation. 

Regardless how hard people try; the only reason these proposals are at "opposite ends" is because folks like one and don't like the other. 

All these experts and no one has answered my initial question of: If a state wanted to challenge Roe v. Wade what steps would it take. I have received one answer of "they can't"; I'm just going to need a couple people to affirm that and then we can contact Oklahoma.   

They pass a law knowing it is illegal and then waste time and money in court to fight the federal government all the way to the Supreme Court.

You know that answer.  You just want someone else to say it so you can say everyone is wrong giving the answer that "they can't".

"They can't" means exactly that....in the end it will be a waste of time and tax payer money.

No court has ever ruled it is against the constitution or your constitutional rights to smoke marijuana.  That is the difference between MJ and abortion.  

You know that answer too, but you need to find something to troll about.

Oh, and unlike the other post this time I am talking to you, so feel free to respond.


I'm ready.

[Benton]

(05-21-2016, 09:58 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Colorado passed amendment 64 on November 6 2012. This amendment is counter to federal law and they are enforcing it in the form of taxation. 

Regardless how hard people try; the only reason these proposals are at "opposite ends" is because folks like one and don't like the other. Seems like folks are just trying to create "scenarios" to show why they differ. Quick someone hits the violates Human Rights stance. 

All these experts and no one has answered my initial question of: If a state wanted to challenge Roe v. Wade what steps would it take. I have received one answer of "they can't"; I'm just going to need a couple people to affirm that and then we can contact Oklahoma.   

The court decides what it wants to hear. A state can't make the scotus take a case. And it does hear abortion cases. I think there was one they started back in march. Normally they dont seek to define whether or not abortion is legal like roe v wade, and I'd be surprised if any court does take on a case that would.

Oklahoma can't challenge roe vs wade, but it can continue to pass abortion laws which the scotus can continue to say are or aren't constitutional.

Colorado and other states haven't had much about pot going before the court. If they did, there might be a change in drug schedules. But right now this is just the executive branch of the federal not enforcing something passed by the legislative branch. That could change. The judicial branch decision with abortion is something the executive branch could ignore. Trump with his flip flopping might or might not, and I doubt Clinton would.

[*bfine32*]

(05-21-2016, 10:15 AM)GMDino Wrote: They pass a law knowing it is illegal and then waste time and money in court to fight the federal government all the way to the Supreme Court.

You know that answer.  You just want someone else to say it so you can say everyone is wrong giving the answer that "they can't".

"They can't" means exactly that....in the end it will be a waste of time and tax payer money.

No court has ever ruled it is against the constitution or your constitutional rights to smoke marijuana.  That is the difference between MJ and abortion.  

You know that answer too, but you need to find something to troll about.

Oh, and unlike the other post this time I am talking to you, so feel free to respond.


I'm ready.

Didn't Colorado pass a law knowing it was illegal? As i said there is one reason that folks are against this and not so much against the Colorado marijuana laws and it is not because of the function of government, 

[BmorePat87]

(05-20-2016, 12:17 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I hope the Governor signs this into law. The abomination that is abortion should be eliminated from our society.

So rape victims shouldn't have access to abortions?

[BmorePat87]

While I completely disagree with big government trying to tell people what to do with their bodies, for those who are ok with big government regulating our bodies, I can see why they are ok with this law. It is the only way for them to challenge Roe v Wade.

I just don't understand why so many people want a large government that determines what we can do with our bodies and which consenting adults we can marry.

[*Nately120*]

Serious question to the hardcore conservatives. If a woman is a felon and can't own a firearm legally but becomes pregnant can she THEN buy a firearm to protect her unborn baby? That kid has rights to be protected from bad guys but he/she can't actually use a gun but is also disarmed because of his mother's misdeeds. Would the baby's rights to bear arms transfer to the mother in this case?

Or are we just ok with babies being at risk of being killed by bad guys with guns?

[*bfine32*]

http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

Quote:ANNUAL ABORTION STATISTICS
Based on available state-level data, an estimated 977,000 abortions took place in 2014—down from approximately 983,000 abortions in 2013 and 1.02 million abortions in 2012.

In 2011, 1.06 million abortions took place in the U.S., down from 1.21 million abortions in 2008, 1.2 million in 2005, 1.29 million in 2002, 1.31 million in 2000 and 1.36 million in 1996. From 1973 through 2011, nearly 53 million legal abortions occurred in the U.S. (AGI).

Twenty-one percent of all U.S. pregnancies (excluding miscarriages) end in abortion. (AGI).

In 2011, the highest number of reported abortions occurred in California (181,730), New York (138,370) and Florida (84,990); the fewest occurred in Wyoming (120), South Dakota (600) and North Dakota (1,250) (AGI).

Mississippi had the lowest abortion rate in 2011 (Wyoming had too few abortions for reliable tabulation), and New York had the highest (AGI). There were approximately 17.5 births for every abortion in Mississippi and approximately 2.3 births for every abortion in New York.

The annual number of legal induced abortions in the United States doubled between 1973 and 1979, and peaked in 1990. There was a slow but steady decline through the 1990's. Overall, the number of annual abortions decreased by 6% between 2000 and 2009, with temporary spikes in 2002 and 2006 (CDC).

From 2011 to 2012, the total number and ratio of reported abortions decreased by 4% (CDC).

In 2011, 17% of legal induced abortions occurred in California (AGI).

The US abortion rate is similar to those of Australia, New Zealand, and Sweden but higher than those of other Western European countries (NAF).

In 2005, the abortion rate in the United States was higher than recent rates reported for Canada and Western European countries and lower than rates reported for China, Cuba, the majority of Eastern European countries, and certain Newly Independent States of the former Soviet Union (CDC).

WHO HAS ABORTIONS?
In 2012, unmarried women accounted for 85.3% of all abortions (CDC).

Women living with a partner to whom they are not married account for 25% of abortions but only about 10% of women in the population (NAF).

In 2012, women who had not aborted in the past accounted for 55.7% of all abortions; women with one or two prior abortions accounted for 35.6%, and women with three or more prior abortions accounted for 8.6% (CDC).

Among women who obtained abortions in 2012, 40.3% had no prior live births; 45.8% had one or two prior live births, and 14.0% had three or more prior live births (CDC).

Women between the ages of 20-24 obtained 32.8% of all abortions in 2012; women between 25-29 obtained 25.4% (CDC).

In 2012, adolescents under 15 years obtained .04% of all abortions, but had the highest abortion ratio: 817 abortions for every 1,000 live births (CDC).

Black women were 3.6 times more likely to have an abortion in 2012 than non-Hispanic white women (CDC).

The abortion rate of non-metropolitan women is about half that of women who live in metropolitan counties (NAF).

The abortion rate of women with Medicaid coverage is three times as high as that of other women (NAF).

37% of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant, and 28% identify themselves as Catholic (AGI).

WHY DO ABORTIONS OCCUR?
On average, women give at least 3 reasons for choosing abortion: 3/4 say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about 3/4 say they cannot afford a child; and 1/2 say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner (AGI).

Only 12% of women included a physical problem with their health among reasons for having an abortion (NAF).

One per cent (of aborting women) reported that they were the survivors of rape (NAF).

WHEN DO ABORTIONS OCCUR?
89-92% of all abortions happen during the first trimester, prior to the 13th week of gestation (AGI/CDC).

In 2012, 7.2% of all abortions occurred between 14-20 weeks' gestation; 1.3% occurred ≥21 weeks' gestation (CDC).

Percentage of 2012 Reported Abortions by Weeks of Gestation* (CDC):
≤6 wks 7 wks 8 wks 9 wks 10 wks 11 wks 12 wks 13 wks 14-15 wks 16-17 wks 18-20 wks ≥21 wks
34.9% 17.7% 13.2% 8.7% 5.8% 4.8% 3.6% 2.7% 3.5% 1.8% 1.9% 1.3%
*Gestational weeks are measured from the first day of the woman's last menstruation and not from the day of conception. Though it does not provide an accurate fetal age (which is roughly 2 weeks less than the gestational age), it is the simplest way for an OB/GYN to age a pregnancy since the day of conception is often not known. Hence, if an abortion occurs at 8 weeks gestation, it is actually aborting a 6 week embryo. The images on our Prenatal Development and Abortion Pictures pages are more precisely captioned with fetal ages in accordance with standard teaching texts on prenatal development.

HOW DOES ABORTION TAKE PLACE?
In 2012, 78.1% of reported abortions were accomplished by curettage (which includes dilatation and evacuation). Most curettage abortions are suction procedures (CDC).

Medical abortions made up approximately 21.9% of all abortions reported in 2012 (CDC).

Ninety-six per cent of the more than 140,000 second-trimester abortions that occur annually in the USA are accomplished by dilation and evacuation (D&E) (NAF).

WHO IS DOING THE ABORTIONS?
The number of abortion providers declined by 4% between 2008 and 2011—from 1,793 to 1,720 (AGI).

Forty-two percent of providers offer very early abortions (during the first four weeks’ gestation) and 95% offer abortion at eight weeks. Sixty-four percent of providers offer at least some second-trimester abortion services (13 weeks or later), and 20% offer abortion after 20 weeks. Eleven percent of all abortion providers offer abortions past 24 weeks (AGI).

Most abortions in the USA are provided in freestanding clinics; in 2005, only 5% occurred in hospitals, down from 22% in 1980, and only 2% took place in physician's offices (NAF).

ABORTION FATALITY
In 2011, two women died as a result of complications from known legal induced abortion; From 1973-2010, 421 women have died as a result of legal abortion (CDC).

The number of deaths attributable to legal induced abortion was highest before the 1980s (CDC).

In 1972 (the year before abortion was federally legalized), a total of 24 women died from causes known to be associated with legal abortions, and 39 died as a result of known illegal abortions (CDC).

THE COST OF ABORTION
In 2009, the average cost of a nonhospital abortion with local anesthesia at 10 weeks of gestation was $451 (AGI).

MEDICAL ABORTION
In 2011, 59% of abortion providers, or 1,023 facilities, provided one or more types of medical abortions. At least 17% of abortion providers offer only medication abortion services (AGI).

Medication abortion accounted for 23% of all nonhospital abortions in 2011 (AGI).

ABORTION AND CONTRACEPTION
Induced abortions usually result from unintended pregnancies, which often occur despite the use of contraception (CDC).

51% of women having abortions used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. (AGI).

8% of women having abortions have never used a method of birth control (AGI).

9 in 10 women at risk of unintended pregnancy are using a contraceptive method (AGI).

Oral contraceptives, the most widely used reversible method of contraception, carry failure rates of 6 to 8% in actual practice (NAF).

ABORTION AND MINORS
40% of minors having an abortion report that neither of their parents knew about the abortion (AGI).

39 states currently enforce parental consent or notification laws for minors seeking an abortion: AL, AK, AR, AZ, CO, DE, FL, GA, IA, ID, IL, IN, KS, KY, LA, MA, MD, MI, MN, MO, MS, MT, NC, ND, NE, NH, OH, OK, PA, RI, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WI, WV, and WY. The Supreme Court ruled that minors must have the alternative of seeking a court order authorizing the procedure (AGI).

ABORTION AND PUBLIC FUNDS
The U.S. Congress has barred the use of federal Medicaid funds to pay for abortions, except when the woman's life would be endangered by a full-term pregnancy or in cases of rape or incest (AGI).

17 states (AK, AZ, CA, CT, HI, IL, MA, MD, MN, MT, NJ, NM, NY, OR, VT, WA and WV) use public funds to pay for abortions for some poor women. About 14% of all abortions in the United States are paid for with public funds—virtually all from the state (AGI).

Thought I would post some stats of the procedure we are constantly bickering about. Stats come from the CDC when available.  private industries also were used as some states do not release their numbers.

Some facts I found interesting:
40% of juveniles that have abortions state neither parent knew she was having one. (I had no idea that a minors could consent to an elective medical procedure.) 

11% of abortion clinic do abortions after 24 weeks (I thought this was illegal)

More than 1 in 3 healthy pregnancies in NY end in abortion