Open-Minded Liberals at it again

[*bfine32*]

Another "victory" for the Left and defeat for Free Speech:
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/ann-coulter-cancels-berkeley-speech-threats-violence-sad-175026347.html

Quote:The university said Coulter would be allowed to speak at a later date, when the campus is less crowded.
The decision to drop her legal efforts to force Berkley to let her speak came after the conservative group that was backing Coulter, Young America’s Foundation, announced late Tuesday that it could no longer take part, citing safety concerns for its staff and students.
Coulter said the lack of support from the group left her with little choice but to back out.
“Everyone who should believe in free speech fought against it or ran away,” she said.

[GMDino]

(04-26-2017, 06:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Another "victory" for the Left and defeat for Free Speech:
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/ann-coulter-cancels-berkeley-speech-threats-violence-sad-175026347.html

Dropping out of speaking is a defeat for Free Speech?

Quote:The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, ensuring that there is no prohibition on the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble, or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, as one of the ten amendments that constitute the Bill of Rights.

Are we sure?

[*bfine32*]

(04-26-2017, 09:41 PM)GMDino Wrote: Dropping out of speaking is a defeat for Free Speech?



Are we sure?

Not sure if "we" are sure; as I said: your ilk most likely view it as a victory. But IMO feeling compelled to cancel a speaking engagement out of fear for your safety is a defeat for Free Speech.

I must admit I have no idea why you posted the 1st Amendment; as no one said anyone's right were violated.

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-26-2017, 09:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sure if "we" are sure; as I said: your ilk most likely view it as a victory. But IMO feeling compelled to cancel a speaking engagement out of fear for your safety is a defeat for Free Speech.

I must admit I have no idea why you posted the 1st Amendment; as no one said anyone's right were violated.

Good way for Republitards to complain about the snowflakes hurting their feelings now a days. 

Be a right wing nut job. And complain when people at Berkley oppose you going there to spew copious amounts of shit from your face hole. 

Is it "free speech" when someone is collecting a pay check?

[*bfine32*]

(04-26-2017, 10:19 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Good way for Republitards to complain about the snowflakes hurting their feelings now a days. 

Be a right wing nut job. And complain when people at Berkley oppose you going there to spew copious amounts of shit from your face hole. 

Is it "free speech" when someone is collecting a pay check?

As I said: The left will view it as a victory.

To answer the question: Yes.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-26-2017, 10:19 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Good way for Republitards to complain about the snowflakes hurting their feelings now a days. 

Be a right wing nut job. And complain when people at Berkley oppose you going there to spew copious amounts of shit from your face hole. 

Is it "free speech" when someone is collecting a pay check?

Anyone and everyone is welcome to protest Coulter all day, every day.  What they are not, ever, allowed to do is use violence while doing so.  Berkeley blew it during the Milo protest and empowered violent protesters.  As long as they aren't inciting violence absolutely anyone should be able to speak in this country without fear of a violent response.

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-26-2017, 10:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: The left will view it as a victory.

To answer the question: Yes.

About as big of a victory as the pig farming industry has when they don't get to talk at a PETA convention. 

Who gives a shit?

Is there some important message she can not get out? Or is she just poking a hornets nest to get publicity? 

This is the new go to Republitard crybaby theme. Boo hoo Berkely doesn't like me... 

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-26-2017, 10:38 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Anyone and everyone is welcome to protest Coulter all day, every day.  What they are not, ever, allowed to do is use violence while doing so.  Berkeley blew it during the Milo protest and empowered violent protesters.  As long as they aren't inciting violence absolutely anyone should be able to speak in this country without fear of a violent response.

Yep. But this is real life. If you go try to hold a hate rally anywhere you are the minority. It pisses people off. May be good publicity and get your name in the news so you can sell books and charge more for your next speaking fee. But its just the adult real world reality that you are intentionally pissing people off and not everybody has perfect church mouse behavior. If I try to bring a black panther rally down to some Alabama civil war monument. probably gonna have a tough time. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-26-2017, 10:54 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Yep. But this is real life. If you go try to hold a hate rally anywhere you are the minority. It pisses people off. May be good publicity and get your name in the news so you can sell books and charge more for your next speaking fee. But its just the adult real world reality that you are intentionally pissing people off and not everybody has perfect church mouse behavior. If I try to bring a black panther rally down to some Alabama civil war monument. probably gonna have a tough time. 

Most definitely, there are a lot of immature, hair trigger people in this country.  This is true of both the far left and the far right.  A violent response from those types of people to words they don't like is predictable.  What should be equally predictable is that anyone indulging in this type of behavior should immediately be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  The police standing by and watching with their thumb up their ass only empowers such behavior and encourages it.  


Lastly, and I freely admit I have no solid proof beyond what I've heard and intuited, the only reason the police didn't respond is that they were ordered not do.  Almost certainly by the far left civilian leadership of that university and city.

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-26-2017, 11:03 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Most definitely, there are a lot of immature, hair trigger people in this country.  This is true of both the far left and the far right.  A violent response from those types of people to words they don't like is predictable.  What should be equally predictable is that anyone indulging in this type of behavior should immediately be arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  The police standing by and watching with their thumb up their ass only empowers such behavior and encourages it.  


Lastly, and I freely admit I have no solid proof beyond what I've heard and intuited, the only reason the police didn't respond is that they were ordered not do.  Almost certainly by the far left civilian leadership of that university and city.

More than likely there would be a large contingent of protesters in Berkley for a Milo or Skeletor speech. The large majority of them would be peaceful hippy types chanting and holding signs. 

If you are in charge of enforcement with limited resources do you instruct your troops to break ranks and go in multiple directions out into an unfriendly volatile crowd and chase down the disguised agitators? Do you give the OK to fire into the mostly peaceful crowd to take out the minority violent types?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-26-2017, 11:13 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: More than likely there would be a large contingent of protesters in Berkley for a Milo or Skeletor speech. The large majority of them would be peaceful hippy types chanting and holding signs.

Sure, just like Louis Farrakhan would attract a hostile crowd in, say, Oklahoma City.

Quote:If you are in charge of enforcement with limited resources do you instruct your troops to break ranks and go in multiple directions out into an unfriendly volatile crowd and chase down the disguised agitators?

 
If you watch the footage of the Berkeley riots then such breaking of ranks would not have been necessary.  The violent protesters separated themselves from the rank and file of the others to engage in their violent behavior.  Why, then, would they watch and do nothing?

Quote:Do you give the OK to fire into the mostly peaceful crowd to take out the minority violent types?

Dear god, the hyperbole. 

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-26-2017, 11:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote:  
If you watch the footage of the Berkeley riots then such breaking of ranks would not have been necessary.  The violent protesters separated themselves from the rank and file of the others to engage in their violent behavior.  Why, then, would they watch and do nothing?

Massive crowd. Mostly in black. Many with masks. Most not violent. You are either shooting at them with a lethal or non-lethal round with a backdrop of protesters mostly acting legally. Or sending out a snatch team to chase people dressed exactly like most of the crowd. 

[*bfine32*]

(04-26-2017, 10:54 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: If I try to bring a black panther rally down to some Alabama civil war monument. probably gonna have a tough time. 

..and I assume your reaction if violence broke out in such a rally would be:

Quote:Who gives a shit?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-26-2017, 11:37 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Massive crowd. Mostly in black. Many with masks. Most not violent. You are either shooting at them with a lethal or non-lethal round with a backdrop of protesters mostly acting legally. Or sending out a snatch team to chase people dressed exactly like most of the crowd. 

Watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi_vX0tknJM

You will notice that the violent agitators frequently separate themselves from the crowd to thrown things, break things, etc.  Yes, as you state you aren't going to wade into a crowd like Judge Dredd because someone in it threw a rock.  What you can do is identify people who separate themselves from the crowd and engage in violent behavior and then detain them.  What also should have been done is the police should have established a cordon and immediately arrested anyone who violated the cordon.  That would be basic professionalism in such a situation.  That this was not done lends further credence, to me, to my opinion that they were ordered to do nothing in this situation by civilian leadership.


As to one of your other points, wearing a mask at a protest or other large gathering should honestly be illegal.  There are laws in place in many states than ban the KKK from wearing masks at marches or rallies for the exact reason that these protesters wear masks, it grants them anonymity to engage in illegal behavior.  Another good place to start would be to immediately fire Yvette Felarca from her government job.

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-26-2017, 11:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ..and I assume your reaction if violence broke out in such a rally would be:

Probably more like the old elementary school saying. No shit sherlock. 


Go yell bingo at the old folks home on bingo night and it will give you good idea what to expect. 

[NATI BENGALS]

(04-26-2017, 11:48 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi_vX0tknJM

You will notice that the violent agitators frequently separate themselves from the crowd to thrown things, break things, etc.  Yes, as you state you aren't going to wade into a crowd like Judge Dredd because someone in it threw a rock.  What you can do is identify people who separate themselves from the crowd and engage in violent behavior and then detain them.  What also should have been done is the police should have established a cordon and immediately arrested anyone who violated the cordon.  That would be basic professionalism in such a situation.  That this was not done lends further credence, to me, to my opinion that they were ordered to do nothing in this situation by civilian leadership.


As to one of your other points, wearing a mask at a protest or other large gathering should honestly be illegal.  There are laws in place in many states than ban the KKK from wearing masks at marches or rallies for the exact reason that these protesters wear masks, it grants them anonymity to engage in illegal behavior.  Another good place to start would be to immediately fire Yvette Felarca from her government job.

You can identify them. The guy in black. Then he retreats into the crowd full of guys in black. They didn't think breaking ranks and sending out a small team to pursue a guy in this confusing mess was worth it. Easily could have escalated the situation and made it a lot worse than it turned out to be. This police force wasn't/isn't trained for full blown riot events, at least not thoroughly. 

I don't know how many they had on the law enforcement side, they were clearly outnumbered. I am not sending out my guys because that guy threw a rock. 3 go after him. Oh that one just lit a firework. 3 more over there. When the crowd tries to protect them just smack them with your baton, I am sure that will calm them down and get the angry raucous crowd to chill out. Everybody meet back here in 15 minutes. 
 
Not in my country would I support my government saying it is illegal to wear a mask. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-27-2017, 12:02 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: You can identify them. The guy in black. Then he retreats into the crowd full of guys in black. They didn't think breaking ranks and sending out a small team to pursue a guy in this confusing mess was worth it. Easily could have escalated the situation and made it a lot worse than it turned out to be. This police force wasn't/isn't trained for full blown riot events, at least not thoroughly.

Every police force is trained in riot situations.  I'd also wonder why they felt the need to have such a significant police presence on the second floor balcony of the building.

Quote:I don't know how many they had on the law enforcement side, they were clearly outnumbered. I am not sending out my guys because that guy threw a rock. 3 go after him. Oh that one just lit a firework. 3 more over there. When the crowd tries to protect them just smack them with your baton, I am sure that will calm them down and get the angry raucous crowd to chill out. Everybody meet back here in 15 minutes. 

Law enforcement is always outnumbered in such situations.  The thing about crowds is no one wants to be that first guy to engage in illegal activity for fear of being made an example of.  When that one guy finally steps up and isn't arrested then you've now opened the floodgates.  You deal with that first guy, and second and third, and you don't get what you ended up with at Berkeley.
 

Quote:Not in my country would I support my government saying it is illegal to wear a mask. 

Laws about not allowing the KKK to wear masks have been on the books since the 50's iirc correctly.  The real question you should be asking is why would someone in that crowd feel the need to wear a mask in the first place?

[Nebuchadnezzar]

THE WHITE KNIGHTS ARE HERE!
THE WHITE KNIGHTS ARE HERE!

Lol, this is a joke right...RIGHT!

[Dill]

(04-26-2017, 11:03 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Almost certainly by the far left civilian leadership of that university and city.

Yes,  Communists I would say.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-27-2017, 01:59 AM)Dill Wrote: Yes,  Communists I would say.

http://www.berkeleyside.com/2017/04/26/berkeley-mayor-forced-defensive-city-becomes-ground-zero-extremists/

Quote:A number of right-wing activists have also tried to lump the young mayor — he’s 32 — with the far-left group By Any Means Necessary. They examined his Facebook page (and those of many staffers), and discovered that Arreguín had “liked” the BAMN page and was “friends” with Yvette Felarca, one of the group’s most high-profile members. They then accused Arreguín of supporting the violence committed by masked, black-clad antifa anarchists at various rallies.

I don't have to make accusations, the facts speak for themselves.  Feel free to disagree, but you've already stated your disdain for disagreement with facts.