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Opinion: DeSantis 2024?
#21
I’d like to know the truth behind the story of the data scientist who appeared to be a whistle blower for a covid cover up and ended up with her home raided.
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#22
(02-16-2021, 11:58 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I’d like to know the truth behind the story of the data scientist who appeared to be a whistle blower for a covid cover up and ended up with her home raided.

You’d think the 2nd amendment freaks would be all up in arms and cosplay army surplus gear over that.
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#23
(02-16-2021, 11:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's a fantastic model, along with the perfect comparison.  You've got NYC executing the authoritarian State, while Florida chose to let the people live how they choose.  Were one States results dramatically better than the other?  Not really, except Florida is dramatically better in terms of deaths per 100K population.

That doesn't really change what I posted. Since June, Florida's deaths have been about 20% higher per 100k, driven by the fact that Florida had 19% more deaths during the summer than the national average (the 5th highest) due to their "let people live how they choose" attitude.

Any argument that their results have been about the same is predicated on requiring that we take into account the initial national outbreak that occurred in NYC while ignoring any sort of context that looks at how drastically different New York has fared after those first two months as the nation was able to produce more critical supplies, better treatments were found, and the population began to take social distancing seriously. 

Things that, as I've said here and have said for months, Florida could have chosen to do but opted not to. DeSantis basically traded 5,200 lives for his policies, or lack there of. 
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#24
FL open for business = 29,151 deaths

NY locked down like slaves = 45,683 deaths with an upward trend starting in Dec. + Cuomo nursing home scandal heating up.

FL has 16,532 less deaths vs NY as of 18 hours ago.  

Deaths per day very similar.

FL and NY have almost the same amount of cases..... 1.55M NY vs 1.84M FL with NY having 500 more cases than FL reported yesterday.

"Let people live how they choose".  What kind of crazy s!@t is that??  It's like we live in a free Country or something.
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#25
(02-17-2021, 02:53 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: FL open for business = 29,151 deaths

NY locked down like slaves = 45,683 deaths with an upward trend starting in Dec. + Cuomo nursing home scandal heating up.

FL has 16,532 less deaths vs NY as of 18 hours ago.  

Deaths per day very similar.

FL and NY have almost the same amount of cases..... 1.55M NY vs 1.84M FL with NY having 500 more cases than FL reported yesterday.

"Let people live how they choose".  What kind of crazy s!@t is that??  It's like we live in a free Country or something.

NY was the first place hit hard (because of NYC) and had 25k deaths in that initial outbreak when the country lacked necessary supplies and a federal plan to address it. Since June, NY has had 20k deaths and FL has had 26.5k.


But this has already been stated half a dozen times in this thread...
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#26
(02-17-2021, 02:53 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: "Let people live how they choose".  What kind of crazy s!@t is that??  


Very very crazy when you consider that some people choose to drink and drive.

Too many people want 'freedom" with zero responsibility.  That is not how it works in this country.
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#27
(02-17-2021, 02:53 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: "Let people live how they choose".  What kind of crazy s!@t is that??  It's like we live in a free Country or something.

When your shitty decisions only impact you, then that's fine. But when you're shitty decisions impact other people who have no control over your actions, then it's a problem. Some people are just so self-centered they don't understand that their actions have an impact beyond their individual person, apparently.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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#28
So....FL has less deaths than NY and didn't lock down.

Or... NY has approx. 6k less deaths than FL once you make excuses to not count the first 25k that died.

In the end, FL is open for business with less deaths and almost the same cases while NY is locked down with more deaths.

Right, because drinking and driving vs going out to dinner where everyone consents to being around each other is the same thing.
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#29
(02-17-2021, 05:15 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Right, because drinking and driving vs going out to dinner where everyone consents to being around each other is the same thing.

If you're driving on the road and a drunk driver hits you, you were consenting to being on the road, right?
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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#30
(02-17-2021, 05:44 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If you're driving on the road and a drunk driver hits you, you were consenting to being on the road, right?

Nope.  Driving drunk is illegal.  Going out to dinner or to a social gathering is not................at least not yet.
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#31
(02-17-2021, 05:51 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Nope.  Driving drunk is illegal.  Going out to dinner or to a social gathering is not................at least not yet.

You're moving the goalposts. If you are driving on the road, you are consenting to be on the road. If you are in a restaurant, you are consenting to be in the restaurant. That is the topic at hand. The drunk driver you are sharing the road with is akin to the maskless person with COVID you are sharing a restaurant with. Everyone is there in a consenting manner, but there is one asshole that is going to ruin everyone's time because they are too selfish to think about anyone beyond themselves.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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#32
(02-17-2021, 05:51 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Nope.  Driving drunk is illegal.  Going out to dinner or to a social gathering is not................at least not yet.


You are completely missing the point.

Why is driving drunk illegal if we live in a "free" country?  Why shouldn't I be "free" to drive while drunk?
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#33
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/17/politics/ron-desantis-vaccines/index.html


Quote:DeSantis defends controversial vaccine deal with developer -- and threatens to pull vaccines if officials don't like it
[/url][Image: 171129174315-konstantin-toropin-profile-small-11.jpg]
[url=https://www.cnn.com/profiles/konstantin-toropin]
By Konstantin Toropin, CNN

Updated 3:56 PM ET, Wed February 17, 2021

[Image: 210209095712-ron-desantis-file-202-exlarge-169.jpg]
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis attends an event with then-President Donald Trump on the environment at the Jupiter Inlet Lighthouse and Museum, Tuesday, September 8, 2020, in Jupiter, Florida.

(CNN)Florida's Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis has threatened to move a pop-up vaccination clinic that his state has set up in an affluent community in Manatee County after he was confronted with allegations of political favoritism and preference for the wealthy at a news conference Wednesday.


Manatee County announced on Tuesday that Florida's Division of Emergency Management would host a "pop-up" vaccination spot at Lakewood Ranch this week for 3,000 Manatee County residents, according to a statement from the county.


The vaccines, however, would be limited to people living in only two zip codes -- 34202 and 34211.


Manatee County Commissioner Misty Servia, a Republican, criticized the selection of these two areas at a Board of County Commissioners work session on Tuesday.


"You're taking the Whitest demographic, the richest demographic in Manatee County and putting them ahead of everyone else," Servia said. "The optics are bad ... very bad -- I'm really disappointed," she added.


Commissioner Reggie Bellamy, a Democrat, also noted that he's been "fighting like hell to show people that the (vaccine) lottery is equal and we cannot compromise the system."


"And now all of a sudden someone is telling me that we were able to go in and pull names out -- pull a certain demographic out -- and say, 'These are the people that we're going to serve,'" he added at the Tuesday meeting.
Board of County Commissioners Chair Vanessa Baugh, a Republican who is a strong supporter of DeSantis, said that the clinic "was done strictly by the governor who called Rex Jensen ... they wanted to do a pop up session in Lakewood Ranch."


Jensen is the CEO of Schroeder-Manatee Ranch, the parent company of Lakewood Ranch, according to the company's website. The development is an affluent community that boasts new home prices "from the $180,000s to more than $1 million," according to its website.


DeSantis, however, defended the choice when confronted with the criticism at a news conference on Wednesday.
"It wasn't a choice about zip codes, it was a choice about where's a high concentration of seniors where you could have communities provide the ability for them to go on (to get vaccinated)," he said.


He also pushed back at the suggestion that the choice was politically motivated, saying he didn't "understand the accusation."


DeSantis fired back at the county officials who had concerns with the choice.


"If Manatee County doesn't like us doing this, then we are totally fine with putting this in counties that want it," DeSantis said.


"We're going to look to do more and more with the additional doses but anyone in Manatee ... if they don't want us doing it, then just tell us, and we'll make sure that that that we send those doses to folks who want it," he also repeated later in the news conference.


The governor also noted that the doses that will be distributed at this location are in addition to the doses allocated to the county as a whole and that he has set up two of these vaccination events every week in places like The Villages, Kings Point and Sun City in Hillsborough County.


Meanwhile, Lakewood Ranch, in a statement to CNN, said that their involvement in the clinic was only "to help identify a site that could accommodate 1,000 people per day."


"We reached out to Manatee County Commissioner Vanessa Baugh and asked if the County-owned Premier Sports Campus would be an option," spokeswoman Lisa Barnott said in an email.


Barnott noted that Baugh coordinated the use of the site, as well as use of the Manatee County registry of people who had signed up for vaccinations.


State Democrats have blasted DeSantis for his remarks.


Florida Democratic Party Chair Manny Diaz said in a statement that DeSantis "must stop playing politics with the vaccine distribution here in Florida."


"Threatening retribution and less vaccine access for communities that criticize the vaccine rollout for its problems is shameful and inhumane," Diaz added.

Democratic state Sen. Annette Taddeo said that "it's disgusting and unacceptable for the governor to politicize life-saving vaccines."


"The Governor owes Manatee county residents an apology and a public statement reassuring the public that political games will not be used in the distribution of vaccines in our state. Period," she added in a statement.
CNN's Rosa Flores and Sara Weisfeldt contributed to this report.
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#34
(02-17-2021, 07:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are completely missing the point.

Why is driving drunk illegal if we live in a "free" country?  Why shouldn't I be "free" to drive while drunk?

You are free to drive around while drunk.  That privilege comes with the caveat that you must be willing to accept the consequences of your actions should you get caught while doing so, or the damages if the result of your action causes harm to others peaceful enjoyment of life.
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Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations

-Frank Booth 1/9/23
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#35
(02-17-2021, 03:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: NY was the first place hit hard (because of NYC) and had 25k deaths in that initial outbreak when the country lacked necessary supplies and a federal plan to address it. Since June, NY has had 20k deaths and FL has had 26.5k.


But this has already been stated half a dozen times in this thread...

So, what is your point?  My original point with the comment about allowing people to live freely, was that both approaches yield similar results.  Florida is two spots above the National median in infection rate, and two spots below in death rate.  Who cares about the 25K hit that NYC took early on, their Governor seems to be heading toward some hot water over covering up the fact that he was sending infected people to nursing homes, putting the most vulnerable faction of the population in grave danger by doing so.
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Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations

-Frank Booth 1/9/23
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#36
(02-17-2021, 08:27 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, what is your point?  My original point with the comment about allowing people to live freely, was that both approaches yield similar results.  Florida is two spots above the National median in infection rate, and two spots below in death rate.  Who cares about the 25K hit that NYC took early on, their Governor seems to be heading toward some hot water over covering up the fact that he was sending infected people to nursing homes, putting the most vulnerable faction of the population in grave danger by doing so.

My point has been repeated multiple times. You're choosing to feign ignorance to what it is, and you original point was shown to be incorrect multiple times too.

"Who cares" would be anyone who is actually trying to discuss the impact of policy enacted, and Andrew Cuomo's recent issues are shameful but that doesn't change the importance of context.
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#37
(02-17-2021, 10:52 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: My point has been repeated multiple times. You're choosing to feign ignorance to what it is, and you original point was shown to be incorrect multiple times too.

"Who cares" would be anyone who is actually trying to discuss the impact of policy enacted, and Andrew Cuomo's recent issues are shameful but that doesn't change the importance of context.

Pat, just because people say things multiple times, does not make them true.  When you compare NY and Fla over the duration of the Covid-19 ordeal, they are both large populous States that took polar opposite approaches in how they dealt with it.  Despite their vastly different approaches, their results are much closer than some are willing to accept.  It doesn't make one approach right or wrong, it does point to the notion that some of the precautionary measures instituted by one group may not have been as effective as initially thought.  

Everyone likes to say "follow the Science", well we have a perfect comparison study model, right here in the US.  I'd say that as of now, it's looking like States who instituted maximum precautions are looking about equal to the State that took none.
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]

Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations

-Frank Booth 1/9/23
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#38
(02-17-2021, 11:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Pat, just because people say things multiple times, does not make them true.  When you compare NY and Fla over the duration of the Covid-19 ordeal, they are both large populous States that took polar opposite approaches in how they dealt with it.  Despite their vastly different approaches, their results are much closer than some are willing to accept.  It doesn't make one approach right or wrong, it does point to the notion that some of the precautionary measures instituted by one group may not have been as effective as initially thought.  

Everyone likes to say "follow the Science", well we have a perfect comparison study model, right here in the US.  I'd say that as of now, it's looking like States who instituted maximum precautions are looking about equal to the State that took none.

Details matter.

It’s like Dwayne Haskins throwing for 350 yards with most coming in garbage time of a blowout and bragging about his stats.

We can all cherry pick. Let’s play the comparison game with North Dakota and Maine.
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#39
(02-17-2021, 11:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Pat, just because people say things multiple times, does not make them true.  When you compare NY and Fla over the duration of the Covid-19 ordeal, they are both large populous States that took polar opposite approaches in how they dealt with it.  Despite their vastly different approaches, their results are much closer than some are willing to accept.  It doesn't make one approach right or wrong, it does point to the notion that some of the precautionary measures instituted by one group may not have been as effective as initially thought.  

Everyone likes to say "follow the Science", well we have a perfect comparison study model, right here in the US.  I'd say that as of now, it's looking like States who instituted maximum precautions are looking about equal to the State that took none.

Him saying it multiple times doesn't make it true. The facts are what they are. Before the pandemic reached Florida in a serious way and before our federal government took the pandemic seriously (because they wanted to put their heads in the sane) New York had already been battling the pandemic for months with no guidance, no federal assistance, and no groundwork laid out before them. By the time the pandemic reached the rest of the country outside of New York and the west coast, lessons had been learned about treatment and preventative measures. That means that New York is in no way a "perfect comparison study model" for this situation because they have been dealing with the disease longer and were left on their own because of a petty administration.

Those are the facts of the situation. It isn't just something that Pat is saying. These are the things that actually happened. Ignoring them multiple times doesn't change the facts.
"A great democracy has got to be progressive, or it will soon cease to be either great or a democracy..." - TR

"The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." - FDR
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#40
(02-18-2021, 08:06 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Him saying it multiple times doesn't make it true. The facts are what they are. Before the pandemic reached Florida in a serious way and before our federal government took the pandemic seriously (because they wanted to put their heads in the sane) New York had already been battling the pandemic for months with no guidance, no federal assistance, and no groundwork laid out before them. By the time the pandemic reached the rest of the country outside of New York and the west coast, lessons had been learned about treatment and preventative measures. That means that New York is in no way a "perfect comparison study model" for this situation because they have been dealing with the disease longer and were left on their own because of a petty administration.

Those are the facts of the situation. It isn't just something that Pat is saying. These are the things that actually happened. Ignoring them multiple times doesn't change the facts.

My 9 year old daughter would know not to send infected patients back in with the most vulnerable.  Cuomo is a corrupt, lying dumbass along with his sidekick Bozo The Chris Cuomo.

Trump admin provided NY with plenty of resources early on.  Even brought in USNS Comfort Hospital ship and that idiot Cuomo didn't even utilize it.  Trump also approved the Javits center (2500 beds) to treat non-covid illnesses to free up hospital beds for covid patients.

People can make excuses and spin al they want, but that idiot Cuomo is a major reason NY has more deaths, not because they got hit first.

And if covid is going to kill everyone if we don't shelter in place and wear masks for the rest of our lives then why did NY have 500 MORE cases YESTERDAY than FL which is fully open?
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