Opinion: DeSantis 2024?

[Belsnickel]

(02-18-2021, 10:12 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: My 9 year old daughter would know not to send infected patients back in with the most vulnerable.  Cuomo is a corrupt, lying dumbass along with his sidekick Bozo The Chris Cuomo.

Trump admin provided NY with plenty of resources early on.  Even brought in USNS Comfort Hospital ship and that idiot Cuomo didn't even utilize it.  Trump also approved the Javits center (2500 beds) to treat non-covid illnesses to free up hospital beds for covid patients.

People can make excuses and spin al they want, but that idiot Cuomo is a major reason NY has more deaths, not because they got hit first.

And if covid is going to kill everyone if we don't shelter in place and wear masks for the rest of our lives then why did NY have 500 MORE cases YESTERDAY than FL which is fully open?

I'm not denying Cuomo is a piece of shit, but there was no guidance from the feds early on in the pandemic and that is fact. The reason for this being that the Trump administration had trashed the pandemic response plan left by the Obama administration and then stuck their heads in the sand. Nobody knew what to do in the early days of things. Them being hit first is absolutely the largest contributor to their numbers. The spin is coming from you on this one.

As for spread like that, we've already covered that in this thread as well.

[GMDino]

(02-18-2021, 08:06 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Him saying it multiple times doesn't make it true. The facts are what they are. Before the pandemic reached Florida in a serious way and before our federal government took the pandemic seriously (because they wanted to put their heads in the sane) New York had already been battling the pandemic for months with no guidance, no federal assistance, and no groundwork laid out before them. By the time the pandemic reached the rest of the country outside of New York and the west coast, lessons had been learned about treatment and preventative measures. That means that New York is in no way a "perfect comparison study model" for this situation because they have been dealing with the disease longer and were left on their own because of a petty administration.

Those are the facts of the situation. It isn't just something that Pat is saying. These are the things that actually happened. Ignoring them multiple times doesn't change the facts.

The right started rewriting the history of the early days of the pandemic before Trump left office.  No amount of reading or facts will change their perceptions that Trump didn't do anything "too" wrong and that it is on the (insert derogatory descriptive adjectives here) liberals and blue states for everything else.


I mean it was quite a while before they learned that the use of ventilators wasn't the best method.  

But you and Pat and the others are right:  Florida and many other places had the advantage of learning from other state's mistakes.  I'd propose that if Florida had followed better shut down rules they would have had much better results simply because they already had learned how to treat the disease better by the time it got there.

Add in that when people went to the beach they could still social distance vs the streets of NYC.

And more people drive in FL vs using public transportation in NYC.

There really is little compare directly.

Edit to add:

This is a good twitter account to follow right now - https://t.co/0e0yfJIOxQ?amp=1

Follows the news about Coronavirus one year ago today.

[BmorePat87]

(02-17-2021, 11:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Pat, just because people say things multiple times, does not make them true.  When you compare NY and Fla over the duration of the Covid-19 ordeal, they are both large populous States that took polar opposite approaches in how they dealt with it.  Despite their vastly different approaches, their results are much closer than some are willing to accept.  It doesn't make one approach right or wrong, it does point to the notion that some of the precautionary measures instituted by one group may not have been as effective as initially thought.  

Everyone likes to say "follow the Science", well we have a perfect comparison study model, right here in the US.  I'd say that as of now, it's looking like States who instituted maximum precautions are looking about equal to the State that took none.

Correct, that's why I used data. Since June, Florida has had 20% more deaths per 100k. That's not similar. 

[Mickeypoo]

(02-18-2021, 10:42 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Correct, that's why I used data. Since June, Florida has had 20% more deaths per 100k. That's not similar. 

As of today FL has less deaths than NY and they have been open for business vs locked down by King Cuomo.

Doesn't look like that trend is going to change either.

[fredtoast]

(02-17-2021, 08:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You are free to drive around while drunk.  That privilege comes with the caveat that you must be willing to accept the consequences of your actions should you get caught while doing so, or the damages if the result of your action causes harm to others peaceful enjoyment of life.

Then how do you suggest we punish people for not wearing masks or social distancing during a highly contagious pandemic that is killing millions of people?

A good model would be the way we treat companies who pollute the air or dispose of toxic waste in improper manners.

[GMDino]

(02-18-2021, 11:54 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: As of today FL has less deaths than NY and they have been open for business vs locked down by King Cuomo.

Doesn't look like that trend is going to change either.

Total deaths vs how Florida saw MORE deaths after we started to learn how to handle it.

But what a few deaths as long as people can have a nice dinner out?  I think that's in the constitution right after "not being politically correct."

FREEDOM!  

[Mickeypoo]

(02-18-2021, 12:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Then how do you suggest we punish people for not wearing masks or social distancing during a highly contagious pandemic that is killing millions of people?

A good model would be the way we treat companies who pollute the air or dispose of toxic waste in improper manners.

We shouldn't punish people for not wearing masks or social distancing.  

[Mickeypoo]

(02-18-2021, 12:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: Total deaths vs how Florida saw MORE deaths after we started to learn how to handle it.

But what a few deaths as long as people can have a nice dinner out?  I think that's in the constitution right after "not being politically correct."

FREEDOM!  

If you are high risk and/or scared of Covid stay home.  FREEDOM!

If covid is as bad as they say, why are so many politicians violating their own rules?  Aren't they terrified they are going to die?  

Nope, because they know the odds of a healthy person dying from covid is almost zero and that it was blown out of proportion for political reasons.

https://www.businessinsider.com/democratic-politicians-who-violated-covid-19-rules-guidance-list-2020-12

Oh, and hard pass on the covid vaccine.  And since the only reason I get the flu shot is so that I don't have to wear a mask, no flu shot this year; already have to wear a mask.

My wifes Aunt is very high risk. She almost died a couple years ago. She got Covid, had some mild symptoms and she is fine.

[GMDino]

(02-18-2021, 01:05 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: If you are high risk and/or scared of Covid stay home.  FREEDOM!

If you are an essential worker, don't have health care, live paycheck to paycheck, and your boss tells you to come to work and then some customer who has FREEDOM! comes in and gets you sick....FREEDOM!

(02-18-2021, 01:05 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: If covid is as bad as they say, why are so many politicians violating their own rules?  Aren't they terrified they are going to die? 


Nope, because they know the odds of a healthy person dying from covid is almost zero and that it was blown out of proportion for political reasons.

One because some politicians are just as bad as some of their constituents and two becuase it not a matter of being "terrified" that we will die but a matter of having respect for the rest of society.

(02-18-2021, 01:05 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: https://www.businessinsider.com/democratic-politicians-who-violated-covid-19-rules-guidance-list-2020-12

Oh, and hard pass on the covid vaccine.  And since the only reason I get the flu shot is so that I don't have to wear a mask, no flu shot this year; already have to wear a mask.[/quote[

I fully expect many people to pass on the vaccine the same as I fully expect many people still don't believe smoking causes cancer. They weed themselves out after awhile.

[quote='Mickeypoo' pid='992109' dateline='1613664325']My wifes Aunt is very high risk.  She almost died a couple years ago.  She got Covid, had some mild symptoms and she is fine.

Hey! Personal experiences are fun and enlightening!

My entire family had it. We all had mild cases. Other people died that we knew.

People have the FREEDOM! to ignore reality just as others have the FREEDOM! to point out their ignorance.

[Belsnickel]

(02-18-2021, 01:05 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: If you are high risk and/or scared of Covid stay home.  FREEDOM!

If you're scared of a drunk driver slamming into you while you're driving to the store then stay home. FREEDOM!

[BmorePat87]

(02-18-2021, 11:54 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: As of today FL has less deaths than NY and they have been open for business vs locked down by King Cuomo.

Doesn't look like that trend is going to change either.

55% of NY's deaths came between March and May under the conditions noted at length. Less than 10% of Florida's deaths occurred in that same time period. 

Since June, Florida has had 20% more deaths per 100k despite not having 43% of their population living in a 300 square mile city. That's because they're "open for business". 

[Mickeypoo]

(02-18-2021, 01:36 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If you're scared of a drunk driver slamming into you while you're driving to the store then stay home. FREEDOM!

Yes, if you are that scared, don't drive.

[Mickeypoo]

(02-18-2021, 01:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: If you are an essential worker, don't have health care, live paycheck to paycheck, and your boss tells you to come to work and then some customer who has FREEDOM! comes in and gets you sick....FREEDOM!


One because some politicians are just as bad as some of their constituents and two becuase it not a matter of being "terrified" that we will die but a matter of having respect for the rest of society.


Hey!  Personal experiences are fun and enlightening!

My entire family had it.  We all had mild cases.  Other people died that we knew.

People have the FREEDOM! to ignore reality just as others have the FREEDOM! to point out their ignorance.

Those places where those essential workers work can have mask policies and ask the people not wearing masks to leave.  FREEDOM!

Yes, have respect for the rest of society by not destroying lots of small businesses while big box stores magically keep people safe.

Personal experiences are fun and enlightening.  Some people live and some die and when it is your turn it's your turn.  FREEDOM!

Yes, keep ignoring the reality that FL has fewer deaths than NY.  FL has FREEDOM and NY has a hypocritical DICTATOR!
Keep ignoring the reality that a healthy person has almost zero chance of dying from Covid, but let's lock down everything.

[Mickeypoo]

(02-18-2021, 01:57 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: 55% of NY's deaths came between March and May under the conditions noted at length. Less than 10% of Florida's deaths occurred in that same time period. 

Since June, Florida has had 20% more deaths per 100k despite not having 43% of their population living in a 300 square mile city. That's because they're "open for business". 

So, as of today, FL is free and open for business while NY is locked down and FL has 16k less deaths.  What do the trends look like today?  About even.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-18-2021, 01:57 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: 55% of NY's deaths came between March and May under the conditions noted at length. Less than 10% of Florida's deaths occurred in that same time period. 

Since June, Florida has had 20% more deaths per 100k despite not having 43% of their population living in a 300 square mile city. That's because they're "open for business". 

You seem absolutely obsessed with comparing Florida to NY.

Why are you ignoring the plethora of other states that have taken a more agressive or strict approach that either are doing worse than Florida, or they're doing similarly?

I'm willing to listen and have my view changed, but I'm going to need  someone to explain to me how Florida isn't at the top, or the near the top (in both cases and deaths) if their approach was so reckless and stupid.

[GMDino]

(02-18-2021, 02:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You seem absolutely obsessed with comparing Florida to NY.

Why are you ignoring the plethora of other states that have taken a more agressive or strict approach that either are doing worse than Florida, or they're doing similarly?

I'm willing to listen and have my view changed, but I'm going to need  someone to explain to me how Florida isn't at the top, or the near the top (in both cases and deaths) if their approach was so reckless and stupid.

One answer could be populations.

Even if the governor is an idiot maybe the older populations took it more seriously and actually stayed in.  The larger spread from Florida may have come from the young, dumb tourists taking advantage of a "reckless and stupid" approach.  I know of one group of young men who traveled and came back all positive last year.  As far as I know they all lived though.

I'm sure there are other variables too.  It doesn't change the notion that leaving everything wide open was indeed reckless and stupid.

To use the drunk driving analogy above: Someone could drive drunk their entire lives and never have an accident or get caught...but it is still reckless and stupid based on what we know should be done.

[Mickeypoo]

(02-18-2021, 02:48 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: You seem absolutely obsessed with comparing Florida to NY.

Why are you ignoring the plethora of other states that have taken a more agressive or strict approach that either are doing worse than Florida, or they're doing similarly?

I'm willing to listen and have my view changed, but I'm going to need  someone to explain to me how Florida isn't at the top, or the near the top (in both cases and deaths) if their approach was so reckless and stupid.

I believe that lockdowns, school closings, masks, etc, make everyone feel all warm and squishy and safe inside.  I believe the reality of such actions has little bearing on the outcome of deaths and cases.  I didn't say no bearing, but not in any kind of meaningful way.

Again, FL open and NY closed.  Trends for cases and deaths about the same.  We are being played like a fiddle; Devil Went Down to Georgia Style!

My kids have been back in school 4 days a week this whole year, very few cases and no one very sick from Covid. Kids going to each others houses, running around town, backyard football, no masks and no one dying. Wake up people.

[TheUberHuber]

The guy playing politics with covid vaccinations? Yeah thats the adult we need in the Whitehouse. ... sike

[Belsnickel]

(02-18-2021, 02:21 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Yes, if you are that scared, don't drive.

Right. So we shouldn't have DUIs be illegal.

[Wes Mantooth]

(02-18-2021, 02:53 PM)GMDino Wrote: To use the drunk driving analogy above: Someone could drive drunk their entire lives and never have an accident or get caught...but it is still reckless and stupid based on what we know should be done.

There are numbers to support that drunk driving results in a DRAMATIC increase in accidents.  I'm sorry, I just don't see the same with the numbers here. 

I keep hearing about how reckless, and how stupid their approach was.  But when I dive into any and all of the data I can find there's nothing there to really support this argument.

In just looking at the numbers vs. Ohio, where we've taken I'd say a more agressive approach, we (Ohio) actually have slightly more deaths per capita.  This in a state that sees a fraction of a fraction of the amount of the amount of travel, and with a younger population.

When I look at California, or Illinois, or any number of states, nothing is really jumping out to me in comparison to Florida that shows that they clearly shit the bed here.